Yikes! Man Planned Mass Shooting at "Twilight: Breaking Dawn" Screening

[3113]

From here:

A 20-year-old Missouri man was charged Friday with planning a mass shooting this weekend at either a screening of the latest Twilight movie or a local Walmart. Blaec Lammers, of Bolivar, is accused of buying assault rifles and more than 400 rounds of ammunition in a plot mimicking the July mass shooting that killed 12 and wounded 57 at an Aurora, Colo., theater showing the premiere of the latest Batman movie, the Springfield News-Leader reports.

Lammers was charged with first-degree assault, making a terroristic threat and armed criminal action. He is being held on $500,000 bail.

His mother contacted police Thursday, saying Lammers had bought assault weapons and ammunition, and was concerned he "may have intentions of shooting people at the movie," The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn -- Part 2, according to court documents. He told police he had bought a ticket for a Sunday show.

Several black jokes come to mind, but all I will say is: "Thank goodness Mom ratted out this nutcase."

 

[Stella_Omega]

yep, yay for mom facing the facts.

 

[sr71plt]

Now, if the idiot antigun-control freaks would face the facts.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

The FBI estimates that .05% (that's one in ten thousand) of the population is psychotic. That doesn't sound like very many but in a population of 300 million . . .


Watchfulness is the byword.

 

[lovecraft68]

Now, if the idiot antigun-control freaks would face the facts.

See without getting into a big argument here is the basic problem with gun control.

The nutbags like this guy and the gang bangers and drug dealers and violent criminals will always have the guns because they will break the law to get them like they break the law in every other facet of their existence.

What gun control does is take away the rights to law abiding citizens to have guns for self defense from said nut jobs or to go hunting or just for the hobby of shooting.

That's the problems with gun control you're controlling the already "controllable" people who have blue cards, who have legally obtained their weapons and are responsible with them.

These fruit loops will always get their hands on them.

Remember guns don't kill people.....

Meanwhile lets legalize a mind altering narcotic and pretend the only people who will have it are people using it for medicinal purposes.

These are some screwy times we're living in. Matter of fact who wants to bet Mr. Pyschopath smokes weed?

 

[lovecraft68]

The FBI estimates that .05% (that's one in ten thousand) of the population is psychotic. That doesn't sound like very many but in a population of 300 million . . .


Watchfulness is the byword.

I think in the world we're living in they need to adjust that number.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm aware of the specious, extremist, boneheaded arguments you folks make to keep semiautomatic guns readily in the hands of crazies. Doesn't impress me a bit. I'm not that brainless. Only in America.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm aware of the specious, extremist, boneheaded arguments you folks make to keep semiautomatic guns readily in the hands of crazies. Doesn't impress me a bit. I'm not that brainless. Only in America.

The point is the crazies will get them whether you regulate them or not because they will obtain them illegally.

That's what you and people like you don't understand. If the average person no longer has the ability to defend themselves what happens?

break ins and home invasions go way the hell up. Right now what holds them back is they never know who's house they're breaking into and their asses may just get shot.

all tighter control laws do is affect people who wouldn't be dangerous in the first place.

 

[Stella_Omega]

This kid never really broke any laws before this, that I can tell. And he didn't break any laws to get these weapons, he bought them at Walmart. He has never broken into anyone's homes, he's never dealt drugs...

He just bought lots and lots of killing machines. Legally.

And he did so because someone else had also bought lots of legal killing machines.

 

[sr71plt]

Which is why the arguments lovecraft and the other guys who can't grow up put out on this are specious. Gun control isn't gun ban. For some crazy reason, these guys paint it as gun ban so nothing sensible can be done about gun control. With the violent attitude (and general dumbness and"gonna fuck me a Michelle Obama" yammerings) and statements lovecraft makes on this forum, he's exactly who I would get on the phone to the Feds with after he'd walked up to the gun counter at Wal-Mart.

 

[jomar]

There is no room for jokes around this these days, which is is absolutely appropriate. But man, it's Twilight!

 

[lovecraft68]

This kid never really broke any laws before this, that I can tell. And he didn't break any laws to get these weapons, he bought them at Walmart. He has never broken into anyone's homes, he's never dealt drugs...

He just bought lots and lots of killing machines. Legally.

And he did so because someone else had also bought lots of legal killing machines.

Back in the 80/90's (wow shit blurs) Ozzy Osbourne's Suicide Solution was targeted by parents who said their kid killed himself because of it.

Millions who heard it did not.

Dungeons and Dragons was blamed for someone killing themselves.

Millions have played and have not.

Some people who buy guns legally/illegally may one day kill someone-or themselves- millions will not.

People in domestic situations have slashed at, stabbed and killed people with kitchen knives. lets pass a law that the entire country has to eat with plastic utensils.

If we get rid of everything that can be harmful in the wrong hands, what the hell are we going to have left?'

No matter what it is someone will become off balanced enough to do something crazy and now whatever he went nuts with should be made illegal to the millions of normal people out there.

 

[lovecraft68]

There is no room for jokes around this these days, which is is absolutely appropriate. But man, it's Twilight!

I agree, I wonder if in his defense he was going to claim it was a mercy killing

 

[lovecraft68]

Which is why the arguments lovecraft and the other guys who can't grow up put out on this are specious. Gun control isn't gun ban. For some crazy reason, these guys paint it as gun ban so nothing sensible can be done about gun control. With the violent attitude (and general dumbness and"gonna fuck me a Michelle Obama" yammerings) and statements lovecraft makes on this forum, he's exactly who I would get on the phone to the Feds with after he'd walked up to the gun counter at Wal-Mart.

Again anyone with a differing opinion than you is immature and just wrong.

Call the feds. They can come see all nine of my guns all of which were bought in gun shops and I have permits for all as well as a my blue card.

They can also examine them and find out that only three have been fired in that last two years and all of them at the club I have a membership to.

Hell I don't even hunt because the thought of shooting an animal upsets me.

I like to shoot for fun and like to know I could defend my family if it ever came down to it.

Not everyone who owns a gun is a nut.

Fact is you'll disagree with anything I say just because that's how immature you are.

On the other hand I know full well what gun control is meant to begin as. I have never felt comfortable with seeing weapons in a damn department store.

They should all be sold through licensed shops with background checks and all the other proper paperwork.

But it wouldn't stop there. No, it wouldn't. Just like when people argue censorship. If it happens to one thing where will it end? Same thing here.

 

[MSTarot]

Gun or more to the point weapon control has historically been a failed endeavor. Humans will always find more ways to kill one another.

They took away bladed weapons from the lower classes in the Orient. So the people used farm equipment and hand to hand. A long pole with a loop of rope was one of the most effective weapons. It put you beyond the reach of the other person yet you could strangle them to death. Police used them for a very long time for that very reason. They use them on dogs now.

A lot of times terror of a weapon has made it far more than it ever could be. The gypsy people carried a knife that made a clicking sound when opened. It got to where if someone heard that click they would surrender without a fight. Even when they themselves may have been armed with a far more effective weapon.

Then guns came out. They were seen a a joke at first. A longbow man could fire a half dozen arrows in the time you could fire and reload. Well time has made the gun more effective than a bow and arrow. Notice I said effective not dangerous.

The most dangerous weapon is the person with the will, means, and desire to kill you. There is very little you can do to stop that person. The days when you could wear a chain mail vest and have some hope are long gone. Black powder saw to that.

I think the nightly news has maybe made things a bit worse as well. Now you can become famous for killing people. Your name in the headlines, spread across the world...remembered when you would other wise be forgotten.

So yea we can ban guns. Hell, ban every type down till all you can own is a hunting rifle that will hold only one or maybe two bullets. The American Revolution was won with little less. President Kennedy was kill with something similar.

So ban all gun. Take them all away. Have the military go house to house and gather them all up. Melt them down into paperclips. Lock up anyone you find who's hidden one.

It will not make a difference. I've got a friend who could drop someone at fifty feet with an Atlatl spear. That's two pieces of wood. It take about a weekend to make and a month to learn to use one well.

I can already hear someone say yea but he couldn't kill a whole theater full of people with one. True.

But then 108- 50 pound bags of fertilizer and three 55 gallon drums of dragster fuel killed 168 people and injured 680 more. It damaged buildings for 16 blocks in every direction.

I wont say the name of the man who did it, but you all know it. Why do you know it?

Because he's famous.

Do we know the names of the men and women who pulled the survivors from the rubble? Oh you could look them up but you don' t probably know them right off the top of your head.

We make killers famous, they get remembered long after they are dead. Hero's are thanked and forgotten.

Till that sort of thing changes people will do the kind of things this guy was going to.

I just don't see how it can change...maybe we all need to grow up a bit.

M.S.Tarot

Ps. I own a 22 rifle and a single shot 12 gauge. Both have only been used to target shoot and neither have been fired in more than four years.

I also own about 17 swords, they are kept razor sharp and oiled. i can her the joke. "You brought a sword to a gun fight."

This is what I do for fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCVQrYFYWi0

Most gun fights happen within ten feet of the target. I have my blade I might give you 50/50 at ten feet, under that? Nope.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

I am so fucking sick of the argument

guns don't kill people, people kill people.

It's a fucking joke. Yeah, people kill people, but guns make it a helluva lot easier. How many people would the Virginia tech guy been able to kill if he only had a knife? Columbine? Aurora?

5,740 minors were shot in the USA between 2008-2009

http://www.childrensdefense.org/chi...tions/data/protect-children-not-guns-2012.pdf

Sure, some of them were teens with gang violence, but I bet that a lot of them were kids who found daddy's gun. Or stupid teenagers playing with guns.

People kill people. Sure. But guns certainly rack up the fucking body count.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Gun or more to the point weapon control has historically been a failed endeavor. Humans will always find more ways to kill one another.

They took away bladed weapons from the lower classes in the Orient. So the people used farm equipment and hand to hand. A long pole with a loop of rope was one of the most dangerous weapons. It put you beyond the reach of the other person yet you could strangle them to death. Police used them for a very long time for that very reason. They use them on dogs now.

A lot of times terror of a weapon has made it far more than it ever could be. The gypsy people carried a knife that made a clicking sound when opened. It got to where if someone heard that click they would surrender without a fight. Even when they themselves may have been armed with a far more effective weapon.

Then guns came out. They were seen a a joke at first. A longbow man could fire a half dozen arrows in the time you could fire and reload. Well time has made the gun more effective than a bow and arrow. Notice I said effective not dangerous.

The most dangerous weapon is the person with the will, means, and desire to kill you. There is very little you can do to stop that person. The days when you could wear a chain mail vest and have some hope are long gone. Black powder saw to that.

I think the nightly news has maybe made things a bit worse as well. Now you can become famous for killing people. Your name in the headlines, spread across the world...remembered when you would other wise be forgotten.

So yea we can ban guns. Hell, ban every type down till all you can own is a hunting rifle that will hold only one or maybe two bullets. The American Revolution was won with little less. President Kennedy was kill with something similar.

So ban all gun. Take them all away. Have the military go house to house and gather them all up. Melt them down into paperclips. Lock up anyone you find who's hidden one.

It will not make a difference. I've got a friend who could drop someone at fifty feet with an Atlatl spear. That's two pieces of wood. It take about a weekend to make and a month to learn to use one well.

I can already hear someone say yea but he couldn't kill a whole theater full of people with one. True.

But then 108- 50 pound bags of fertilizer and three 55 gallon drums of dragster fuel killed 168 people and injured 680 more. It damaged buildings for 16 blocks in every direction.

I wont say the name of the man who did it, but you all know it. Why do you know it?

Because he's famous.

Do we know the names of the men and women who pulled the survivors from the rubble? Oh you could look them up but you don' t probably know them right off the top of your head.

We make killers famous, they get remembered long after they are dead. Hero's are thanked and forgotten.

Till that sort of thing changes people will do the kind of things this guy was going to.

I just don't see how it can change...maybe we all need to grow up a bit.

M.S.Tarot

Ps. I own a 22 rifle and a single shot 12 gauge. Both have only been used to target shoot and neither have been fired in more than four years.

I also own about 17 swords, they are kept razor sharp and oiled. i can her the joke. "You brought a sword to a gun fight."

This is what I do for fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCVQrYFYWi0

Most gun fights happen within ten feet of the target. I have my blade I might give you 50/50 at ten feet, under that? Nope.

You can potentially make the argument that there are sick fucks that would go to any length to get guns even if they were illegal, or to find some other makeshift weapon to be violent, but lets face it. Most gun-related injuries or homicides or accidents and even some of the suicides simply WOULD NOT have happened without a gun.

 

[Stella_Omega]

People in domestic situations have slashed at, stabbed and killed people with kitchen knives. lets pass a law that the entire country has to eat with plastic utensils.

That was an interesting idea. So i googled "killed with a plastic knife" and I found this;

How many people have been killed with a plastic knife?

View Slide Show
Answer:
In the US there have been over 800 prison inmates killed from 1969 to 1986 by the infamous plastic knife...from 1987-2009 there have been over 250 prison inmates killed by the now popular Spork..

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_have_been_killed_with_a_plastic_knife

Which might be more or less accurate, but it's a far, far cry from this;

Number of people killed by guns in the United States in 2004: 29,569

Percentage breakdown by US gun deaths in 2004, by type:

* 16,750 suicides (56% of all U.S. gun deaths)
* 11,624 homicides (40%)
* 649 unintentional shootings, 311 from legal intervention and 235 from undetermined intent (4%).

That averages out to 81 people dying everyday from guns. And also some gun ownership stats:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080725002418AAEB87X
Further;

In the 10 years from 2000 through 2009, more than 298,000 people died from gunshots in the U.S., about 30,000 people a year. If you exclude natural causes of death and consider only deaths caused by injury, it is the second-leading cause of death over that time span; only car accidents (417,000) killed more people. (These numbers come from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.)

Guns don’t cause violence but access to guns turns violence deadly and boosts the chances of lethal accidents. Look through statistics compiled by the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence and the numbers speak for themselves:

•Two-thirds of the 179,000 homicides committed during the 2000s made use of a firearm, usually a handgun.

• If a gun is used during a domestic violence assault, there’s a 23-fold increased likelihood that the victim will die. Women who are victims of domestic violence are five times more likely to be killed if their abuser owns a firearm.



• Having a gun facilitates suicide. According to a California study, suicide by handgun is the leading cause of death in the first year after people buy one. Many don’t wait that long. In the first week after the purchase of a handgun, the suicide rate among firearm purchasers was 57 times as high as the adjusted rate in the general population. More than 75 percent of guns used in suicide attempts and accidental injuries of people under 20 were stored in the home of the victim, a relative, or friend. Would all these people have committed suicide if a gun had not been easily available? Some would have, of course, but the easier (and faster) it is to kill one’s self, the more likely a person is to do it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robwate...blic-health-issue-politicians-want-to-ignore/

So sure, people get killed with plastic knives. It took thirty years for the numbers to build up to be slightly LESS than are killed in one month by firearms.

Gun bans can have an impact. In 1991, 15 years after Washington, D.C. banned handguns, researchers from the University of Maryland conducted a study to assess the impact of the ban. They tracked homicides and suicides in the district from 1968 to 1987 and found that homicides by firearm fell by 25 percent and suicides committed with firearms dropped by 23 percent. Murders and suicides committed by other means neither rose nor fell—in other words, people didn’t use other methods to commit an act they already wanted to commit. And there was no similar reduction found in the adjacent metropolitan areas in Maryland and Virginia. The D.C. gun restriction was repealed in 2008 after the U.S. Supreme Court found such ordinances unconstitutional.

 

[The_Misplaced_Gypsy]

You can potentially make the argument that there are sick fucks that would go to any length to get guns even if they were illegal, or to find some other makeshift weapon to be violent, but lets face it. Most gun-related injuries or homicides or accidents and even some of the suicides simply WOULD NOT have happened without a gun.

Where there is a will there is always a way. Yes that is a quote. You are blind if you think that gun-related suicides would not simply happen without a gun. Are you for real? I can think of a ton of ways to end my life and to end someone else's.

Why, you may ask?

Because I have tried to commit suicide in my previous marriage because I thought I had no other way out because I was told that I was worth nothing and that my parents didn't want me back home.

Why am I still here and not dead?

It wasn't because the lack of conviction. I took a bowie knife and had already sliced one wrist when a once friend of mine just happened to walk into my house before I could slice again.

You might as well outlaw people getting rope, or a belt, or lets even outlaw shoe laces. Guess what, you cannot own a pair of scissors anymore because they are dangerous as well. Either you can cut yourself with them or stab yourself or if you don't want to make a mess then just cut a pair of sheets or pillow case and rip them apart and make your own hangman's noose.

Its not hard to come up with ways to kill yourself or others. You can get herbs online that will leave no trace in the bloodstream if an autopsy is performed. Told my ex husband one time before we got a divorce that I wouldn't mind swallowing a little bit of brake fluid to make it look like an accident.

Where there is a means, there is a way. Where there is a will, same thing.

If someone wanted to look up the chemical mixes for a deadly gas and had the access to a chemical lab, they could still kill a group of people inside and auditorium.

People just want to be blind to the things. "Oh this can't happen unless you have this."

Ps. I own a 22 rifle and a single shot 12 gauge. Both have only been used to target shoot and neither have been fired in more than four years.

I also own about 17 swords, they are kept razor sharp and oiled. i can her the joke. "You brought a sword to a gun fight."

Most of those are mine, pretty boy. Along with a Klingon Bat'leth, two sai, a wheat scythe, all three Highlander katana, and that is just to name a few.

The Misplaced Gypsy

"Peace is accessible if we truly want it."

 

[sr71plt]

Why am I still here and not dead?

It wasn't because the lack of conviction. I took a bowie knife and had already sliced one wrist when a once friend of mine just happened to walk into my house before I could slice again.

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure you just evidenced Cruel's point. If you'd used a gun chances are very, very, very, very good you'd be dead. And if you'd used a semiautomatic perhaps half the neighborhood would have gone with you.

I think most of the rest of the civilized world just laughs at these arguments you guys are rolling out. Apparently it isn't really that guns don't kill people/people kill people. It may really be that Americans like to kill people. And that the most convenient way they have of doing it (other than the automobile) is a gun.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Where there is a will there is always a way. Yes that is a quote. You are blind if you think that gun-related suicides would not simply happen without a gun. Are you for real? I can think of a ton of ways to end my life and to end someone else's.

I quote once more;

Gun bans can have an impact. In 1991, 15 years after Washington, D.C. banned handguns, researchers from the University of Maryland conducted a study to assess the impact of the ban. They tracked homicides and suicides in the district from 1968 to 1987 and found that homicides by firearm fell by 25 percent and suicides committed with firearms dropped by 23 percent. Murders and suicides committed by other means neither rose nor fell—in other words, people didn’t use other methods to commit an act they already wanted to commit. And there was no similar reduction found in the adjacent metropolitan areas in Maryland and Virginia. The D.C. gun restriction was repealed in 2008 after the U.S. Supreme Court found such ordinances unconstitutional.

It's a real good idea to check for corroborating evidence when you make ideological statements.

Why am I still here and not dead?

It wasn't because the lack of conviction. I took a bowie knife and had already sliced one wrist when a once friend of mine just happened to walk into my house before I could slice again.

Whereas, if your friend had walked in just after that first bullet... it would have been too late for you. You wouldn't have NEEDED a second slice.

All of those other methods you mentioned in your post are perfectly valid, yes, but you would not have been able to mow down an entire public gathering with your suicide weapons-- twisted sheets, brake fluid any of those things-- would not result in mass murder.

 

[Bramblethorn]

See without getting into a big argument here is the basic problem with gun control.

The nutbags like this guy and the gang bangers and drug dealers and violent criminals will always have the guns because they will break the law to get them like they break the law in every other facet of their existence.

Where are you getting that from? AFAICT from the article, this guy bought his guns through legal channels.

I agree that gun-control laws are of limited effectiveness against career criminals who have the connections to get black-market guns, but a lot of the crazies get theirs legally (or by theft from legal owners - as with our last mass shooter back in 1996).

 

[The_Misplaced_Gypsy]

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure you just evidenced Cruel's point. If you'd used a gun chances are very, very, very, very good you'd be dead. And if you'd used a semiautomatic perhaps half the neighborhood would have gone with you.

I think most of the rest of the civilized world just laughs at these arguments you guys are rolling out. Apparently it isn't really that guns don't kill people/people kill people. It may really be that Americans like to kill people. And that the most convenient way they have of doing it (other than the automobile) is a gun.

Nope.. because I loath guns. Its the sound that I hate. Oh and by-the-way, I know how to shoot a gun and do it with really good accuracy. My daddy made sure of that but I am a better knife and ax thrower. I play with throwing stars too.

Have MSTarot tell you what happened one day when he came home unexpectedly.

There are still ways to plan out mass murders. A gun is just a limit to the imagination that someone has.

Oh and American's like to kill people. Well everyone has to have a hobby I guess.

But really.. Americans like to kill people? Excuse me? Do you know what's going on in Israel? Lets not mention what happened in Libya. Oh and its alright to kill everyone in the name of "God". Its a mercy killing anyway.

I have always said to give the rednecks of Texas the ways and means of going wild over in the middle east, tell them that they can rename the place what ever they want. That has always been a joke because my mother is from Texas.

What country you are from does not make the difference. HUMANS kill HUMANS. Its all a matter of if we are bullied to that line in the decision. Should I do it? or should I not do it? or if something inside of us snaps and causes us to go into a theater full of people and take care of business because "TWILIGHT SUCKS". (actually, I like the books).

No I am not a mass murderer. I hate seeing the news about people being killed in horrible ways and I hate it when animals get hurt or murdered by ruthless people. I like my "so-called" peaceful existence. The only war I have is with my own self.

Trust me, I have been told that I am weird by an Army Psychiatrist but that I was not a danger to anyone but myself. So I am certifiable. My mother calls me "Morbid" because of how I think. I can think of the darkest stuff imaginable, so she and the shrink said. I was also told that I am more grounded to the earth than anyone in the military.

If I had no other means of protecting myself than with a gun. Damn straight I would use it. But give me a sword, bow and arrows, spear or baton and stay clear.

Stella, I was typing my response out while you were probably typing that whole page full of quotes so I never saw what you said about all the statistics.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Stella, I was typing my response out while you were probably typing that whole page full of quotes so I never saw what you said about all the statistics.

Oh, I'm sure. but you can see them now, right?

You know the most important statistic for YOU is; the eficiency of a Bowie knife as a suicide weapon, versus a gun. I'm sure someone can put a number value to it.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Have MSTarot tell you what happened one day when he came home unexpectedly.
\

Y'know that very large number that Stella gave? What was it?

29,569 for 2004

A large chunk (about half) was suicides and then about forty percent were homicide. Of the percentage that's left, I wonder how many are dumb rednecks who get the gun out when they hear a robber, only to find out that it was Junior or hubby once the smoke has cleared?