writing without dialog tags

[Zeb_Carter]

I understand the rationale but come to the opposite conclusion. This may just be me, but in dialogue paragraphs I think the default should be for the dialogue to come first. I think it's crisper and reads better. I am much less keen on seeing the snippet of dialogue at the end of the paragraph.

Again, not an inflexible rule, but I think it usually reads better this way. So in the examples above I prefer no. 1.

I agree with Simon, the tag comes at the end or sometimes in the middle. It just a better read. A long string of text before the actual dialog and I just zone out and the dialog is either missed or just doesn't have the impact that it would if it was first.

I some times have a paragraph before the dialog describing what is going on and at the end of that paragraph something like this.

Beverly screamed her enjoyment in Ralph's ear.

"Oh fuck!"

Then a new paragraph of either some more description or more dialog between them.

 

[Wilson Spalding]

#DialogueTags

Interesting views and a lot of great advice in here.

On average, dialogue tags are waning but it's unlikely they'll ever completely disappear. Here's a few things I've found:

• Heavier tag use, by modern writers, tends to skew towards younger readers.
• Tagless was the rage for a while, but it can be confusing if the characters speak in a similar voice. Tagless definitely pushes a faster pace.
• Associated actions or descriptive cues can both clarify identity and add to the scene texture. Like simple tags, though, this can bog down the flow if overused.

If you look at the best-selling novels, you'll find writing that's comprehensible to a wide audience. That's not an appeal to popularity, per se, as it is an observation of what works more effectively on statistical average. Nor does it minimize the plot, setting or characters, but how they're delivered does matter.

Check out the averages on a Dan Brown novel, say "The Da Vinci Code." Or check out Michael Crichton's "Disclosure." They go in bursts of tagless, then drop in the occasional tag/action/description to let the reader reset.

There's no perfect way as every reader is different. There's no "right" way, either; but unfortunately, there's a dozen wrong ways – and it's all painfully, linguistically subjective. Really, the question to ask: does the voice of the author keep the reader immersed or does it trip them out of the narrative?

 

[Sextified]

There's no perfect way as every reader is different. There's no "right" way, either; but unfortunately, there's a dozen wrong ways – and it's all painfully, linguistically subjective. Really, the question to ask: does the voice of the author keep the reader immersed or does it trip them out of the narrative?

That is a very good way of saying what is important.

I am going to try and rebuild my audience here at Lit, since I am leaving my old website. I do need to make sure that my stories appeal to readers, that I keep them engaged, and don't drop them out of the action because of either mistakes or lack of skill on my part.

I write for readers who want longer stories with characters that grow, change and heal. I try to be careful of their time, and want them to invest in both my characters, and in me as a writer. I want them to begin to trust me, that every single word is on the screen for a reason. There is already a story to be told, and it's up to me to find the best way to tell it, and in my own way.

Although I have, can and do enjoy writing short stroke stories, and doing it right is a worthy challenge? I know that what I eventually want to write is more on the lines of the old school world-builders. To be successful at that, you have to be able to juggle dozens of characters, multiple plot lines, and keep the action and their consequences coming at the right pace.

I have a friend who I gave one of my favorite mainstream Fantasy books as a gift. Near the end, there is a rape scene that occurs "off screen". Nothing graphic. Mainly the build up to attack, and the recovery afterwards. It sets off a war, and there is a child that results from it. Five more books follow that deal with all of the consequences of that one horrible act. It can not be left out, nor short changed.

My friend loved the book, kept telling me how much she enjoyed it, every time we talked while she was reading it. Then she finished it, and didn't want to read any of the follow ups. The author is well known, a woman, and handled the non-scene as perfectly as any one could wish.

I guess that was what meant when I said, "Write what you want, how you want to, and let your audience find you."

 

[Wilson Spalding]

I guess that was what meant when I said, "Write what you want, how you want to, and let your audience find you."

Well put.

Another one that has guided me:

You've got to know the rules before you can break the rules...

 

[yukonnights]

Interesting views and a lot of great advice in here.

On average, dialogue tags are waning but it's unlikely they'll ever completely disappear. Here's a few things I've found:

• Heavier tag use, by modern writers, tends to skew towards younger readers.
• Tagless was the rage for a while, but it can be confusing if the characters speak in a similar voice. Tagless definitely pushes a faster pace.
• Associated actions or descriptive cues can both clarify identity and add to the scene texture. Like simple tags, though, this can bog down the flow if overused.

If you look at the best-selling novels, you'll find writing that's comprehensible to a wide audience. That's not an appeal to popularity, per se, as it is an observation of what works more effectively on statistical average. Nor does it minimize the plot, setting or characters, but how they're delivered does matter.

Check out the averages on a Dan Brown novel, say "The Da Vinci Code." Or check out Michael Crichton's "Disclosure." They go in bursts of tagless, then drop in the occasional tag/action/description to let the reader reset.

There's no perfect way as every reader is different. There's no "right" way, either; but unfortunately, there's a dozen wrong ways – and it's all painfully, linguistically subjective. Really, the question to ask: does the voice of the author keep the reader immersed or does it trip them out of the narrative?

I like the way you expressed this.

Probably the biggest thing I've learned in my own experiments, and in discussion with others, is the simple reality that I've mentioned earlier; Readers do have different abilities to grasp, and preferences for, a particular style. I think this is the most important thing to take away from this discussion. It takes away the fear of offending that "universal reader" and allows me to do my own thing. So far I've done okay with that.

Case in point; Just as some have mentioned how they just can't read a story void of dialogue tags — I find myself drudging through, my eyelids getting heavy by what seems to me, a tired "telling" of the story full of he said and she said. Thus, I don't buy into the mantra that "these are invisible to readers." Such a statement relies on the expectation of the non-existent "average reader".

However, I do think this no tag style is for more streamlined stories with fewer characters. Basically it's one tool in a bag of tools.

 

[SisterJezabel]

Stepping to the side seeing we are talking about dialogue in stories, the overuse of names still annoys me. Sometimes I'll do it to throw a character's name in, but I now usually resort to pet names or nicknames.

My physiotherapist uses my name all the time during pilates-

Great Jex, you're doing great!
Keep Going, Jez.
Jez, How's the weight?
3 more, Jez, you can do it!

This sort of dialogue in stories really irks me!

 

[Wilson Spalding]

I like the way you expressed this.

Thank you!

...However, I do think this no tag style is for more streamlined stories with fewer characters. Basically it's one tool in a bag of tools.

Couldn't have said it better. That balanced approach puts you alongside Dan Brown and Michael Crichton. As writers go, that's decent company.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

The impetus to write tagless dialogue leaves me skeptical, but I'm willing to look at examples to see if they work. I'd be curious to see how NotWise or any others have done it. If anyone has samples, please link to them.

To my way of thinking, if it sacrifices even a smidgen of clarity about who's speaking, it's not worth it. I know it will frustrate me as a reader. The moment I have to stop and go back over the dialogue to figure out who's saying what I'm getting angry with the author, and that completely offsets any effect the author thinks he/she is achieving by streamlining things.

This is a short sample from one of my highest rated stories. It's just two people. Like EoN talked about, a lot of the indication about who is talking comes from actions described, rather than actual dialogue tags:

After about thirty minutes a thought struck me and I started laughing.

“What’s so funny?” he asked.

“I just had an absurd thought, sir.”

“Yeah?”

“Yes, sir. I was imagining what Julia would do if I told her how I’d been spending my evenings.”

He cocked his head sideways to look at me. “And? What do you think she’d do?”

I looked over at him, and moved my hand to caress his side.

“I can just imagine it now. I come into work tomorrow and Julia asks, ‘How was your evening?’ And I respond, ‘It was lovely. I spent several hours as a lap desk.’ She’d probably have a stroke. Or call our boss and tell her I needed to be evaluated for hospitalization.”

I started laughing again, picturing the look on her face. I glanced at him, and he was grinning.

He patted my thigh. “And a very serviceable lap desk you’ve made.” He chuckled. “Though, I could think of some improvements.”

“Yes, sir?”

Obviously the first person narration and the fact that one person is consistently referred to as "sir" keeps thinks clearer than if it was third person or both people of the same gender.
Overall though, I use dialogue tags sparingly. I use them just enough to keep things from seeming confusing to me. I haven't yet had someone complain about my dialogue or mention any confusion.

 

[SimonDoom]

This is a short sample from one of my highest rated stories. It's just two people. Like EoN talked about, a lot of the indication about who is talking comes from actions described, rather than actual dialogue tags:

After about thirty minutes a thought struck me and I started laughing.

“What’s so funny?” he asked.

“I just had an absurd thought, sir.”

“Yeah?”

“Yes, sir. I was imagining what Julia would do if I told her how I’d been spending my evenings.”

He cocked his head sideways to look at me. “And? What do you think she’d do?”

I looked over at him, and moved my hand to caress his side.

“I can just imagine it now. I come into work tomorrow and Julia asks, ‘How was your evening?’ And I respond, ‘It was lovely. I spent several hours as a lap desk.’ She’d probably have a stroke. Or call our boss and tell her I needed to be evaluated for hospitalization.”

I started laughing again, picturing the look on her face. I glanced at him, and he was grinning.

He patted my thigh. “And a very serviceable lap desk you’ve made.” He chuckled. “Though, I could think of some improvements.”

“Yes, sir?”

Obviously the first person narration and the fact that one person is consistently referred to as "sir" keeps thinks clearer than if it was third person or both people of the same gender.
Overall though, I use dialogue tags sparingly. I use them just enough to keep things from seeming confusing to me. I haven't yet had someone complain about my dialogue or mention any confusion.

I think this works great. You don't need to add any tags. You use just one tag in the whole sequence, and that's all you need. But it never feels like you're trying to avoid them. You mix up a variety of techniques to make it clear who is speaking, and as a result you can do without tags without it feeling like you're going out of your way not to use them.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Simon's probably been provided more examples than he wanted, but I'll post this last one. This is from the second story I published here:

She leaned towards him and ran her hands over his shirt, tugging on his tie to get him to bend down and kiss her.

Instead he said, “What are you doing?”

Feeling bold, she reached for his belt, started to unbuckle it. Giggled.

“Imma give you a hand job.”

“What?”

She went straight for his zipper. “You know. Or a blow job. You love those.”

He stood very still, and she glanced at his face. “What? Out here?” he asked

“Why not?”

“In public?”

“Hmm, sure. Why not? Besides, it’s late. It’s not like it’s crowded.”

He pushed her hands away from him, caught one in each of his. “No. Not here.”

She pretended to pout. Saw him looking over at the trees on the other side of the pathway. “Ooooh. You know a spot?”

“What?” His voice was incredulous, “No. I don’t know a spot. I think someone’s over there.”

She leaned sideways to look at the trees. “Who? Cops? Or a homeless person?”

“Doesn’t matter.”

“C’mon, dude, where’s your sense of adventure?”

“Not in getting a summons for public lewdness.”

edited to add one tag I think the sample would have benefited from.

 

[KeithD]

Moving on, some of us have the additional problem of the speakers, even in sex, being the same gender. That makes keeping who said what additionally difficult. You lose the he/she designator help.

 

[NoJo]

When the speakers are the same sex, my rubric of not using dialog tags at all actually makes it less of a problem, as I'm not relying on personal pronouns so much in the first place. Having said that, I rarely create untagged dialog with more than about five consecutive utterances, before I recalibrate the reader's turn-keeping.

 

[KeithD]

This is a struggle for me writing same-sex sex scenes in the third person. It was much easier in first person. I'm constantly trying to find non-repetitive ways to indicate which "him" or "he" is doing something.

I agree it's easier in first person. I find first person more intimate anyway, so I'm often writing in that to begin with.

 

[Brutal_One]

Tagless dialog - multiple characters

I hope you dont mind me making some edits and points but your extract was perfect to highlight issues i have with tagless dialogue

AlinaX, Voboy and KeithD thank you for saying dialogue without tags after a few lines gets confusing. I've seen the trend in modern literature and assumed it was because of my dyslexia I couldnt follow along, I'm actually happy I'm not the only one.

Gin,

I am working with an Editor now so it’s improving how I think about the craft of writing. In this five character dialog I get it. It’s not as if there are no tags. There are not enough. I don’t necessarily agree that it is odd to name people in the dialog, it can depend on the relationship. My example was a Professor with four students two of them who are new to the group and two who aren’t.

But yes simple tags he said she said will always make it clear. Of course with a two character conversation as long as it’s clear already who the two characters are (to the readers) and which one starts the conversation the tags arguably are not needed. I would agree though for colour or pacing a few tags would not feel unusual.

Brutal One

 

[KeithD]

On the "not mention names in dialogue" issue. Writing is a different mode from an actual conversation. They don't track together. Actual conversation is abrupt, repetitive, incomplete (with much communicated by the visual, which isn't available in writing). No, you shouldn't overdo dropping names in dialogue (just as, by definition, it's not good to overdo anything), but the writing mode requires more of such things than actual face-to-face conversation does because it lacks a dimension that's there in face-to-face speech.

I go back to stagecraft on this. What's actually painted on the set or given in costuming and props on the stage isn't anything like what someone in the audience sees up there. It's done that way so that the audience, from their limited and distorted position, will see it as natural, because they can't be up on stage with the actors.