WriterDom

[Problem Child]

For a bunch of supposedly super-sexually liberated people you all are awfully damn touchy. Put the whips away, I was only kidding folks.

 

[cymbidia]

WriterDom, for what it's worth, i agree with Nicole. PC and the taunts s/he throws are designed to offend; don't even bother to respond.

As you know, some people who frequent this place cannot and will not discuss much of anything coherently and/or intelligently, and seem only interested in sowing seeds of discontent and strife. Leave such people to wallow in the muck of their own making. Don't allow them to disturb you or to influence your mood; don't put energy into their discordantly blatant provocations. Such people just aren't worth your time or your thoughts.

 

[Problem Child]

Writerdom, thanks for the response, I know you are not trying to convert anyone.

Cymbidia,

First, I know that you are smart enough to know that Todd is not the most sexually sophisticated person on this board. His question was harmless and yet you insisted on feeling insulted. He was not attacking your lifestyle choice, only asking questions. You should consider the source before you instantly feel offended.

I was having fun with Deb's response, and obviously you felt insulted by that also. In case you didn't get it, it was a reference to the rather arrogant way you throw around the term "nilla". I'll tell you what irks me...it's your response that "nilla" sex is somehow on a lower and less valuable plateau than what you prefer. That's what's bullshit. The term "nilla" is bullshit. It infers that everyone who is not into your degree of kinkiness just must not be getting as much enjoyment in their sex life as you are. That's crap. It's also insulting for you to be talking past me instead addressing me directly, as I've done to you, and Writerdom had the courtesy to do to me in this thread.

You like to throw around the term "nilla" as an insult (that's really the only way it can be construed)...how about if I started referring to everyone into BDSM as "freaks" or "weirdos"? Would that be OK?

Nicole delivers another soft slap by saying that I don't want to learn about the lifestyle. In other words fuck me because I just "don't get it". Well, I'll tell you what Nicole, I've read the lengthy explanations of your lifestyle in several threads, and I've seen the videoclips and photos of people in the act. I've seen enough to know that I'm not interested. That's a lot different from not wanting to know.

You have every right in the world to get your nut in any way you see fit. But putting down those of us who are not as far out on the edge as you doesn't do anything but alienate people. I never called any of you weird, and I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

 

[Nicole]

Nicole delivers another soft slap by saying that I don't want to learn about the lifestyle. In other words fuck me because I just "don't get it". Well, I'll tell you what Nicole, I've read the lengthy explanations of your lifestyle in several threads, and I've seen the videoclips and photos of people in the act. I've seen enough to know that I'm not interested. That's a lot different from not wanting to know.

You have every right in the world to get your nut in any way you see fit. But putting down those of us who are not as far out on the edge as you doesn't do anything but alienate people. I never called any of you weird, and I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

Problem Child, you took that the wrong way. You see I've tried to explain myself so many times that now I don't bother. You have your way's and I have my way. I was just saying that trying to explain yourself isn't going to work, if you or anyone else wanted to know what we do, you could go look yourself's.

I have never called anyone Vanilla, your lifestyle is your choice, and I'm sure your happy with the lifestyle you've chosen. I know I'm happy with mine, and I'm also aware that not everyone is accepting of what lifestyle I have chosen.

Be happy and post what you please, just remember that all we are trying to do is explain to people what it is that draws us to the lifestyles we lead. Todd asked, he obvioulsy didn't get the response he was looking for until further down the page, but then again Todd asks because he wants to learn what it is that makes us the way we are, not put us down.

Sorry if I offended you in any way shape or form, I wasn't slapping you across the face.

Have a good night.

 

[crystalhunting]

Hmmmmmmm... I once dated a woman who I discovered was actually a submissive,I certainly did try the "lifestyle" with her for a short time,personally I wasn't to comfortable with it,I mean it's a nice diversion for some people at times...but it certainley isn't for me.

Do I care if others choose to engage in it?..NO..It takes all types to populate the world.

Cymbidia...I'm sure you certainley do get many unique questions from people concerning your lifestyle,but Todd was just makeing an inquiry...not conducting the spanish inquisition,I would suggest that you consider who was asking you.I for one...and not going to give you or WriterDom any grief over it.

PC...everyone has a different kink these days that they get off on...it's normal for someone in a certain lifestyle to consider their version to be superior,let it go...


CH

 

[lavender]

 

[cymbidia]

His question was harmless and yet you insisted on feeling insulted. He was not attacking your lifestyle choice, only asking questions. You should consider the source before you instantly feel offended.

I was having fun with Deb's response, and obviously you felt insulted by that also. In case you didn't get it, it was a reference to the rather arrogant way you throw around the term "nilla". I'll tell you what irks me...it's your response that "nilla" sex is somehow on a lower and less valuable plateau than what you prefer. That's what's bullshit. The term "nilla" is bullshit. It infers that everyone who is not into your degree of kinkiness just must not be getting as much enjoyment in their sex life as you are. That's crap. It's also insulting for you to be talking past me instead addressing me directly, as I've done to you, and Writerdom had the courtesy to do to me in this thread.

You like to throw around the term "nilla" as an insult (that's really the only way it can be construed)...how about if I started referring to everyone into BDSM as "freaks" or "weirdos"? Would that be OK?

You have every right in the world to get your nut in any way you see fit. But putting down those of us who are not as far out on the edge as you doesn't do anything but alienate people. I never called any of you weird, and I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

It's refreshing to see you express yourself intelligently, PC. I'll always answer people who do so, though i won't waste my time on those who offer only childish displays of hostility-laden sarcasm.

1. You seem insistent on trying to paint me into a box labeled "Gets Insulted At Every Turn". If you'd read many of the opinions and asides i've posted here, you might see that i'm exactly otherwise. I don't often take offense at BB posts, and especially where it may not be intended. I've been around far too long to let this kinda thing get under my skin, to be honest, and would rather smooth a situation over than fan the flames of discord. That said, there are a couple topics that i take more personally than others. The hackneyed, unflattering view of BDSM that many unenlightened and spectacularly superstitious non-participants hold AND espouse publicly is one of them. However, i *knew* Todd and Writer are friends and i *wasn't* offended by Todd's remarks. Instead, i was launching a counteroffensive against the hacks that would jump in (as you seemed to) as a matter of course. I've been down this road far too many times to expect anything different. In any case, isn't it Todd's place to say whether he was offended by my being "insulted", not yours?

2. Never ever, not once, not anywhere on the net or in my regular everyday life, have i ever intimated to anyone that i thought my way of sexuality is better than anyone else's. You've got a little tender spot there, PC, if that's what you read into my words. If you don't like the term "villa", well, i'm sorry. What term would you rather hear to denote those who practice BDSM as a vital part of their sexuality from those who do not? I'm open to suggestions because i do not ascribe to practices that encourage divisions between people, particularly between people who already have some rough patches lying between them.

3. Likewise, i never called you weird nor did i ever, in any manner put you or anyone else not like me in sexuality down; such would be a particularly obvious breach of character for me.

 

[cymbidia]

It may be a first, but I agree with Problem Child. Although, I'm definitely not "villa" as you like to refer to it, and honestly I have done as well, the response s/he received was not deserved.

When people with preferences for so-called sexual non-conformity begin criticizing those who prefer a more traditional means of sexual pleasure, they do not serve their purpose well. Such words and actions are hypocritical and antithetical to an overall more accepting sexual culture. To each their own. Whether they prefer chocolate and vanilla or hodgepodge of Ben & Jerry's flavors.

I ask you then, lavender, what word should i use to denote those who do not practice the BDSM lifestyle i do? When i need a word to refer to such people, what word will make you comfy and allow you to listen to what i'm saying and not get so offended by a stinking word that you can't see past it?????

I did not, even indirectly, criticize anyone's sexual inclinations. I would not. Such is not my way. All i tried to do was give info about my own inclinations. If you saw in my use of the word "nilla" such censorious overtones, then you, babes, are a teensy bit thin-skinned about the word. In the interests of bettering communication, i ask you again to suggest a more acceptable-to-you word to me to use in these sorts of discussions.

 

[lavender]

 

[Problem Child]

]
It may be a first, but I agree with Problem Child. [Edited by lavender on 05-06-2001 at 10:15 PM]

Hey, that's like the third time you've said that in different threads. Why not just admit you think I'm intelligent, witty and charming Lavender?

Don't fight the feeling...

 

[lavender]

 

[Nicole]

Lavender, my reason for saying some of the things I say are, people don't listen to us, you say you don't like the tone ... "WE" have to put up with that everytime we post about our lifestyle on here.

Walk away, I'll do the same, but don't criticise someone for sticking up for their lifestyle when your doing exactly the same thing.

You wonder why I say "don't try to explain", it's not worth all the questions and the shit we cop for the way we are.

Have a good night.

 

[Mischka]

When you talk about non-BSDM "vanilla" sex, you are referring to middle-of-the-bell-curve, average sex, right? So may I suggest that you refer to it as "regular" sex? I understand that everyone engages in what they feel to be normal for them, but I believe the characterization of regular v. BSDM sex would clearly separate the two without triggering automatic feelings of hostility.

 

[Problem Child]

cymbidia

I never said you called me weird. What I said was that it was inferred by your comments that somehow your lifestyle is better, or more preferable to someone else's less kinky lifestyle.

A night of passionate romantic nilla sex or a hot and wild scene with a talented, demanding Master who will pull from me all i can give? Is THAT the choice?

C'mon!! ~laughing~ I'll take the D/s sex EVERY SINGLE TIME in that case!

I'm not so irritated by the use of the word "nilla" as I am by the context in which you use it. Can you honestly say that after reading the quote above you don't think it sounds just a tad superior...even if you didn't mean it that way?

As I said before, I'm not one to judge- you do your thing and I'll do mine. I hope you're thing makes you happy. From what I've read that you've posted on the subject, I'm pretty sure it does and that's great.

I think we more or less understand each other, and are getting all twisted up in semantics now. It's getting a little tedious.

With that I'll respectfully say goodnight.

 

[Problem Child]

Because before I wasn't agreeing with your opinion, just the fact that you were pointing out someone's ignorance.

I give up.

 

[cymbidia]

When you talk about non-BSDM "vanilla" sex, you are referring to middle-of-the-bell-curve, average sex, right? So may I suggest that you refer to it as "regular" sex? I understand that everyone engages in what they feel to be normal for them, but I believe the characterization of regular v. BSDM sex would clearly separate the two without triggering automatic feelings of hostility.

Why should i refer to middle-of-the-bell-curve-average sexuality as "regular" when it is not regular at all for me?

Why can't i refer to such sexuality with the name that generations of people like me have used to denote such sexuality?

Why must i bend my speech to accommodate your ears?
Why can't you bend your ears to accommodate my speech?

I'm highly frustrated right now and it's a good thing, i think, that everyone's going to bed.


With respect, with differences still firmly in place but increments of understanding achieved, and with all hope of not getting so tied up in semantics that we lose the trees for the forest, i bid you good night, PC and lavender. Perhaps we'll have a chance to pick this spirited but (hopefully) civil debate up again sometime. I enjoyed seeing the intelligence you each brought to the thing. Sleep well.

 

[lavender]

 

[Laurel]

"Difference of opinion leads to enquiry, and enquiry to truth" - Thomas Jefferson

"Unity and self-sacrifice, of themselves, even when fostered by the most noble means, produce a facility for hating. Even when men league themselves mightily together to promote tolerance and peace on earth, they are likely to be violently intolerant toward those not of a like mind." - Eric Hoffer

"The test of tolerance comes when we are in a majority; the test of courage comes when we are in a minority." - Ralph W. Stockman

 

[cymbidia]

Wonderful quotes, Laurel, darlin'. Were those for us combatants or were you looking for the Quotes thread and got lost? In any case, i've struck another blow for peace and understanding tonight, i think. Or maybe it's just peas and under-stanzas?

I think i'm tired of swimming against the current. Tonight, anyway. http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/cwm/cwm/freak6.gif

 

[KillerMuffin]

Why can't i refer to such sexuality with the name that generations of people like me have used to denote such sexuality?

Why must i bend my speech to accommodate your ears?
Why can't you bend your ears to accommodate my speech?

Why? We don't like our rich and varied sexualities referred to as Vanilla because it implies: boring, routine, uninteresting, scheduled, June and Ward Cleaverish.

Of course, you may refer to us as "nillas" all you like. We shall, of course, return the favor and call you "freaks." Just don't get hot under the collar. Why should we bend our speech to accommodate your ears? Why can't you bend your ears to accomodate our speech?

Your missing the point. This isn't about your lifestyle or BDSM at all that PC was having such a problem with. He was getting het up because YOU were having such a problem with his. You are getting a tidge hypocritical here. It's okay for you to call him whatever you want to, but he has to be highly respectful of whatever you do and he has to accept that you can stereotype him.

Non-BDSM sex isn't Vanilla. No matter what you think. You really ought to consider the connotations of what you're talking about before you start insulting everyone who isn't of the lifestyle. And yes, Cym, you are insulting everyone who isn't of the BDSM lifestyle when you refer to them as vanilla. Keep it up and I'll refer to you as a freakjob. You know what it feels like to be stereotyped and considered whacked or inferior because of your sexual choices. Don't do the other way around.

Don't take criticism about the way you speak about other people and other lifestyles as criticism about your own choices.

 

[cymbidia]

Your missing the point. This isn't about your lifestyle or BDSM at all that PC was having such a problem with. He was getting het up because YOU were having such a problem with his. You are getting a tidge hypocritical here. It's okay for you to call him whatever you want to, but he has to be highly respectful of whatever you do and he has to accept that you can stereotype him.

Non-BDSM sex isn't Vanilla. No matter what you think. You really ought to consider the connotations of what you're talking about before you start insulting everyone who isn't of the lifestyle. And yes, Cym, you are insulting everyone who isn't of the BDSM lifestyle when you refer to them as vanilla. Keep it up and I'll refer to you as a freakjob. You know what it feels like to be stereotyped and considered whacked or inferior because of your sexual choices. Don't do the other way around.

Don't take criticism about the way you speak about other people and other lifestyles as criticism about your own choices.

Okay, one more time... i don't give a flying fuck who fucks who and in what manner and with what fucking toys. I respect everyone's sexuality, whatever the fuck it is, and i *don't* and have *never* come down or looked down on *anyone* for *any* fucking reason at all due to how and what and when and why they fuck what they fuck.

Any questions?

Additionally, if you or anyone like you, gets all bent out of shape over my using the word "nilla" to describe those who don't want to have anything to do with a BDSM lifestyle, then goddamit, offer me a fucking alternative! Don't just criticize my word choices and not offer me something to use in it's place, something palatable to me as well as you. If you tell me you want me to use "normal" to refer to non-BDSM-lifestyle sexuality, i'll have to tell you, politely and respectfully of course, to go take a flying fuck because your def of normal has nothing to do with my def of normal.

Give me a word to use that doesn't offend your tender sensibilities AND is one that i can live with. Don't just criticize me endlessly, over and over and over and over, same goddamn song and dance forever, without offering me alternative. That's just not fair.

I don't insult other people for their sexual choices. I never have, not overtly, not discreetly, not meanly, not in the interests of fair play. I fucking don't do that, KM, and you know it!

FUCK i'm sick of this tonight

 

[lavender]

 

[DevilMayCare]

Of course, you may refer to us as "nillas" all you like. We shall, of course, return the favor and call you "freaks." Just don't get hot under the collar.

So KM has it all squared away. Cymbidia gets to use her appellation of choice for non-BSDM folks, "nillas," and those who don't swing on that gate can refer to BSDM folks as "freaks." Out of mutual respect we can honor one another's use of language and go to bed! We can do that because we're all adults here, enjoying a little erotica and some sexual banter with one another. We're consenting adults fully capable of agreeing to disagree. No political correctness on this site, we let it all hang out. Most of us are perverts of one stripe or another anyway, so what's the problem?

I loved "9 and 1/2 Weeks" with Micky Rourke and Kim Basinger. I also found cymbidia's and WriterDom's description of the heart of the experience very enlightening. I doubt, however, that I'll opt for that particular flavor of sexuality. With so much understanding generated by Todd's rather innocuous question, maybe we don't need to do battle over the nuances of language. After all I say tomayto and Ally C says tomahto. Do we have a problem here?

Lavender, lets get back to a political thread where we can truly argue about life and death issues.

 

[lavender]

 

[KillerMuffin]

You may not have intended to Cym, but you did. Insult others for their sexual choices.

Words have connotations to them thace can be highly insulting. The implications behind "nilla" is more insulting to me than if you called me a "spic," which I partially am.

I'm just not getting my panties in a bunch, primarily cause I don't wear them, and secondarily because I think you just got yourself so excited in your explanations of your lifestyle that you didn't think about what you were saying. The insult wasn't intended (I've learned you don't do that), but it was there.

My suggestion: refrain from referring to us as "nilla" on the board. It's very simple. We accept you and your lifestyle, even find it interesting and perfectly normal. We do so by tempering our speech and not using words that will make you feel defensive. We merely ask that you do the same.

It's called common courtesy. I had thought that you had that, but I've been known to be wrong before. Once or twice.