WriterDom

[WriterDom]

Vanilla was never meant as a put down. I love vanilla. Especially with something on top. I guess the misunderstanding is that some might think we are making judgments on others. A word was needed to simplify our communication between our own. It was never meant to rate your sexual satisfaction. It was never meant for your ears at all but questions get asked and we try to answer. If you can suggest a more politically correct term for the board we'll try to use it. spanking challenged?

 

[Mischka]

OK, since "regular" was received with such hostility (and I was only responding to your request for alternatives, cym), how about referring to all non-BSDM sex as "non-BSDM sex"? Seems to encompass all other sexuality that falls outside of your practices.

 

[BlondGirl]

It's not the word Cym, it's the tone this whole thread took. I'm going to walk out of it now.

You eloquently stated your case as always, but it did seem rather condescending.

I disagree completely. I did not sense any tone superiority being displayed (by her).

Gonna ramble around for a bit before running to hit the freeway!

The term "vanilla" is handy and useful. No need to label it as something that is an insult. No other term has been accepted in our language that means the same. If the word fits, use it.

To the question about us kinky folks and whether or not we enjoy vanilla sex, I don't remember having much totally vanilla sex. I am single and I will not being a lover home unless there is a commitment there (meaning that it is proven that the person is going to stick around for a good long while--I am a parent, afterall, and not stupid enough to confuse my son with my various ralationships). I do not get sex on a regular basis so when I do have sex, it tends to be the type I enjoy the most. If your fave ice cream is Chocolate, that is probably what you will ask for when you are offerred the choices. If the only ice cream available is Vanilla, you are likely to take that and enjoy it--even though you might like another flavor better.
I do enjoy vanilla sex--but I like the kink better. And, of course, I am not always in the mood for the kink--the day before my period hits--it would be most unwise to try to display a dom-ly additude toward me.. gggrrrrrrr--hisssssssss.... LOL

Oh, and about the phrase "BDSM lifestyle", I do not consider my interrests to be a lyfestyle at all--IMHO, a lifestyle is something you are engaged in all the time--I am heterosexual--I live a heterosexual lifestyle and never come "out of character" in that. My cousin is homosexual, she lifes that lifestyle just as I live my own. To me, the way I "take" a conversation about the "BDSM lifestyle" is that it is a reference to people who engage in 24/7 situations. Now THAT is a lifestyle.

To me, I consider this BDSM hobby. I like it very very much. Can I live without it? Yes, certainly. Do I want to? Never. I also feel that way about crocheting and reading history and driving a pick up with a standard transmission. A normal truck will do the job but I LOVE a truck I can really control! Vanilla sex is okay and I do enjoy it--but in my fantasies, I never,ever fantasize about the plain stuff.

(If this makes no sense whatsoever, please forgive me--I am now running--gotta get those scrubs on and enrich the fantasies of those kinky patients who like a woman in hospital wear. Ohh-la-la!)

 

[BlondGirl]

OK, since "regular" was received with such hostility (and I was only responding to your request for alternatives, cym), how about referring to all non-BSDM sex as "non-BSDM sex"? Seems to encompass all other sexuality that falls outside of your practices.

Hhhmmm.. Why not? I'll tell you why.
Vanilla refers to the BASIC flavor. The one that pretty much everyone can deal with and enjoy. They may like other flavors better, but VANILLA is still the basis of it all. Vanilla is typically where we started and it is the type of sex (and ice cream) enjoyed by most people.
Vanilla is entirely appropriate.
NON-BDSM sex does not mean the same as VANILLA. Homosexual sex is most usually NON-BDSM but it is not VANILLA. RAPE is NON-BDSM and it also is not VANILLA. Your average swinging couple is NON-BDSM but also not VANILLA. ANAL sex is NON-BDSM but is also not VANILLA. BDSM is one type of sex-play that is enjoyed and VANILLA is another. There are many many other varieties as well. (Hint for those who have not gotten it yet--Vanilla and BDSM are not opposites! There are too many varieties out there to pick an opposite for any of them.)
Vanilla is a time tested and handy term and is only found to be insulting by those who appear (to me) to be jealous of those who are more adventurous. (As is displayed here.) As we all know, jelousy is simply a hostile expression of insecurity. I have never heard anyone who was insulted by the term until yesterday when I read this thread.


As for VANILLA and BDSM, I enjoy both. (I sure don't do that swinging thing though--now THAT grosses ME out!!!!)

Time to hit the books with the kid. Perhaps we will have some vanilla ice cream to go with our studies. It is my favorite. Blue Bell especially. MMMmmmmmmmmm. (Would someone feel all Insulted and angry if I said I like strawberies on my vanilla? Would it change the vanilla to another flavor entirely? Wait! Maybe I should go in and ask the guy at the counter for some non-strawbery with strawberies on top. Yeah. That would be an interresting way to spend some time. I can change the rules as they have been for generations based on my own decision and be angry that everyone else--especially the strawberry lovers themselves don't want to change for me. I must try it--just to see what happens. I am sure it will be entirely practical !!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

 

[BlondGirl]

Oh yeah--and when we are referring to that "Non-BDSM sex" as someone wants us to do--which of the other sexual inclinations are we supposed to be referring to with that term? Just curious.
(In other words--how on earth is that term supposed to actually help?)

 

[lavender]

 

[lavender]

 

[Guest]

Vanilla is a time tested and handy term and is only found to be insulting by those who appear (to me) to be jealous of those who are more adventurous. (As is displayed here.) As we all know, jelousy is simply a hostile expression of insecurity. I have never heard anyone who was insulted by the term until yesterday when I read this thread.

Thank you for demonstrating the kind of superior attitude that ruffled our feathers. We're "jealous" of your "adventurous" sex? Darling, if we wanted to beat each other with paddles and tie rope around our balls, we'd do it. If we wanted to put cages around each others genitals we'd do it. We don't do it because it doesnt turn us on, period, does that mean you're better than us, because you get off on pain? according to you it does, but youre wrong. Youre way is not the best way, you are not inherently better than a vanilla. For a group of people that whines nonstop about being "misunderstood" and preach about tolerance you sure do enjoy alienating those who arent like you.

I enjoy regular penetrative sex. I dislike pain. This does not make me any less adventurous, less sexual, or less uninhibited than you. Your need to be superior to others is simply " hostile expression of insecurity".

You say that "vanilla" is a "convenient" term, so is "freak" and "pervert". How about us "vanilla" folks calling you BDSMers "perverts"? It's just a term, mind you, to help us distinguish "you" from "us". How would that make you feel?

 

[Guest]

Damn...running out of Patryn things to bitch and fight about? Time to drag BDSM into it now? lol Wow.

 

[Nicole]

You say that "vanilla" is a "convenient" term, so is "freak" and "pervert". How about us "vanilla" folks calling you BDSMers "perverts"? It's just a term, mind you, to help us distinguish "you" from "us". How would that make you feel?

Honestly Nope, this girl doesn't mind what the hell you call her. Call me a pervert, call me a freak, call me what you like ... Honestly it doesn't bother ME, but it does bother others just as "vanilla" bothers people that have a non painful sexlife.

I'm giving up on this now, what I do in the bedroom doesn't reflect on who I am when I'm out on public ... maybe sitting a little more easily that yourself but that's about it.

In other words I'm a Freakin Pervert and Proud of it.

 

[Guest]

Here here!

In other words I'm a Freakin Pervert and Proud of it.

You go girl! From one proud pervie to another!

[Edited by Tiggs on 05-07-2001 at 09:04 PM]

 

[cymbidia]

BlondeGirl, forget it. This bullshit isn't worth your energy or your spirit. They who have closed minds will not be swayed by anything you or i (or WriterDom or Tiggs or Hecate or any of the rest of us) have to say.

They want to stick stubbornly to their sense of having been done wrong.

Let them have it.
~hugs~
cym

 

[Mischka]

Vanilla is not entirely appropriate

I have seen "vanilla" used on the BDSM threads to encompass everything from simple, missionary position heterosexual sex to anything outside the BDSM lifetstyle. This thread asked for alternatives to the term, so I attempted to offer a few.

The more I read explanations of the term vanilla, the more I see a tone of condescension behind its use. "Vanilla refers to the BASIC flavor. The one that pretty much everyone can deal with and enjoy...Vanilla is typically where we started and it is the type of sex enjoyed by most people." This infers that "most people" are not as sexually evolved or fulfilled as those that have discovered the joys of alternative sexuality. That pleasure derived from a simple physical and emotional bond between two people is less than the pleasures derived from BSDM. That may be the case for people who need or crave "extras" with their sex, but can you not see how people could consider that an affront to their choice?

Labeling any group carries connotations. As much as you may protest that no ill-will or condescension is intended, that does not change the fact that the group affected by that label may view it that way. When you use the term "vanilla" when addressing such practioners, it necessarily carries not only your own subjective meaning, but the meaning they attach as well. If you are comfortable with their reaction, then by all means continue. But if you do not wish to offend, then I suggest using another term.

 

[Laurel]

(no flames! this is directed all around)

"Persons of high self-esteem are not driven to make themselves superior to others; they do not seek to prove their value by measuring themselves against a comparative standard. Their joy is being who they are, not in being better than someone else." - Nathaniel Branden

and also

"It is very good for a man to talk about what he does not understand; as long as he understands that he does not understand it." - G. K. Chesterton

I don't know near enough about BDSM or fetish or kink, but I do know that the us versus them thing is divisive & silly, especially on a porn BB. We're all people, for crying out loud! Be who you are, & let others be who they are. Sexuality is subjective, personal. What's right for you is right. What's right of others is right for them. If cymbidia finds pleasure one way, then that's the right way - even if it's not how PC finds it. Neither is better than the other because THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. Like Q-Tip says, "Everybody's a star, Everybody shines".

Now let's hold hands and sing...

"We are the World
We are the Children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let's start giving..."

 

[Problem Child]

Big L

I hate that fucking song.

 

[Laurel]

Okay, how about this one...

"Ninety-nine bottles of beer on the wall
Ninety-nine bottles of Beer
If one of them should happen to fall
Ninety-eight bottles of beer on the wall..."

 

[Problem Child]

how about Whip It - Devo

 

[Laurel]

I don't know all the words...let me look it up...

Okay, got em. Everybody follow the bouncing ball:

"crack that whip
give the past the slip
step on a crack
break your momma's back
when a problem comes along
you must whip it
before the cream sits out too long
you must whip it
when something's going wrong
you must whip it

now whip it
into shape
shape it up
get straight
go forward
move ahead
try to detect it
it's not too late
to whip it
whip it good

when a good time turns around
you must whip it
you will never live it down
unless you whip it
no one gets away
until they whip it

i say whip it
whip it good
i say whip it
whip it good

crack that whip
give the past the slip
step on a crack
break your momma's back
when a problem comes along
you must whip it
before the cream sits out too long
you must whip it
when something's going wrong
you must whip it

now whip it
into shape
shape it up
get straight
go forward
move ahead
try to detect it
it's not too late
to whip it
into shape
shape it up
get straight
go forward
move ahead
try to detect it
it's not too late
to whip it
whip it good"

 

[BlondGirl]

Vanilla, BDSM, and other lables that make communication SO MUCH easier!

"Vanilla refers to the BASIC flavor. The one that pretty much everyone can deal with and enjoy...Vanilla is typically where we started and it is the type of sex enjoyed by most people." This infers that "most people" are not as sexually evolved or fulfilled as those that have discovered the joys of alternative sexuality.

You have completely lost me here. How is saying that something is the most popular a way of being derogatory? If I say that most people prefer to live in houses, does that also mean that people who live in tents are more evolved? Or that most people eat meat--does this mean vegetarians are more evolved?
The train of thought on that one is wayyyyyy out there. Of course, this is only my opinion. As someone who enjoys both vanilla and BDSM sex, I see no conflict between the two.
(I am wondering why certain individuals here are so intent on keeping with the belief that I hate vanilla sex and look down on the people who enjoy it. This is truly bizzare!)
~~~~~
<<<"
How about us "vanilla" folks calling you BDSMers "perverts"?
">>>

Acutally, I would be pleased if this term was used commonly enough for no misunderstanding in general conversation. I don't find the term offensive at all and this is a term that is used among many who enjoy BDSM.

I find it interresting that a vanilla person is trying to use a termoninology that is an understood reference in the BDSM community as an example of an insult.
The irony is rather entertaining!

If you don't understand BDSM, that is okay. I don't understand foot fetishes. I don't look down on people who enjoy that. I do not hurl insults or demand that they change their common terminology to meet my own personal wants (not the "wants" of the majority, mind you). I know that I do not understand it--i have come to understand the physiological response better over time--but I will never "get it" since it is not something I enjoy.

The turn of this thread reminds me of female individuls who demand to be referred to as "womyn". They want the entire society to change--it is not practical.
And, they see the term "women" to be insulting, when it is rarely a term of insult.

 

[Laurel]

Wow! That was fun, and topical too. I used to think karaoke was lame, but now...

 

[lavender]

Re: Vanilla, BDSM, and other lables that make communication SO MUCH easier!

 

[Problem Child]

"We're all just vanilla people looking for some chocolate sauce and a cherry on top"

from a song I haven't yet written

 

[WriterDom]

For those who consider the term vanilla insulting and are heterosexual, do you also consider straight insulting?

 

[BlondGirl]

Re: Re: Vanilla, BDSM, and other lables that make communication SO MUCH easier!

This is a sincere question. What specifically are you referring to with this statement? I really didn't understand.

If you scroll up and re-read my posting, you will see that quoted what I was referring to. I cannot now remember, but I think there were two paragraphs in reference to that quote and you inquired about the second part.

When i quote from more than one place at a time, I do this:

<<<"

">>>

to denote what is quoted--it is one of the commonly used methods on various bulletin boards and e-mail lists. (Yes-it is popular--but I guess that by saying that it is popular,I risk the attack of someone here who will grasp for discrimination and feel it is really a way of being condescending somehow. Yes, this is sarcasm.)

Oh, and if you are wondering, I DID go take my boy for some ice cream. He opted for chocolate. I looked at the 4 different versions of vanilla and decided to go for the walnut myself. Do you think the vanilla ice cream felt insulted?

[Edited by BlondGirl on 05-07-2001 at 07:47 PM]

 

[bluntforcemama]

Re: (no flames! this is directed all around)

"Persons of high self-esteem are not driven to make themselves superior to others; they do not seek to prove their value by measuring themselves against a comparative standard. Their joy is being who they are, not in being better than someone else." - Nathaniel Branden

Couldn't have said it better myself. I honestly believe that a lot of the "masters" of the world have serious psychological problems with their self-esteem.

Now flame away, because I won't be looking at this thread again.