Would You?

[R. Richard]

Duh, duh, duh. This isn't a machine problem. Yes, a machine can be devised to solve the isoloated machine problem element--and has already been devised, as a matter of fact. This isn't a machine problem, however. Duh, duh, duh.

If you are referring to my dissertation on automatic transmissions, you are revealing your ignorance. The automatic transmissions I referred to were torque conversion devices, controlled by rather complex fluid based computers. As time went on, electronic logic devices were added and are in fairly common use today.

I hope that you will forgive me, but you have a rather obvious bias for the consideration of 'people problems' as separate from and not connected with technological problems. Unfortunately, the two are rather heavily interconnected, Luddites notwithstanding.

 

[sr71plt]

If you are referring to my dissertation on automatic transmissions, you are revealing your ignorance. The automatic transmissions I referred to were torque conversion devices, controlled by rather complex fluid based computers. As time went on, electronic logic devices were added and are in fairly common use today.

I hope that you will forgive me, but you have a rather obvious bias for the consideration of 'people problems' as separate from and not connected with technological problems. Unfortunately, the two are rather heavily interconnected, Luddites notwithstanding.

No I wasn't referring to your dissertation on automatic transmissions. I was referring to your repeated responding to people problems with machine solutions. I have no problem understanding the two are heavily interconnected. But not only is the machine problem the easiest to solve, it's already available. So more machine solutioning of the issue is just spitting in the wind. The immediate problem isn't capability, it's lack of intent to use the capability (as I've posted elventy-sixty times). Providing more machine answers to this people problem is just dumb (or so I think; it's fine with me if you think otherwise).

 

[sr71plt]

It is a wild guess, at least in my case. I did well in school classes where there were answers to be obtained. A case in point is the Shakespearean drama, "The Merchant of Venice." I could see that Antonio and Bassanio were men who made their living because of their, for the times, advanced edcuations. They could read, write and understood at least the basis of simple accounting. Thus, they could trade in foreign goods with enormous markups and become wealthy without working. When it seems that Antonio's ships are wrecked and with them his fortune, Antonio is then to be subjected to the loss of a pound of flesh by the venal Shylock [obviously a stupid jew, as all of them were, at least as portrayed.] The beautiful Portia, who is able to impersonate a law clerk because of her advanced, for the time, education then tricks the stupid Shylock, cheats him out of his money and humiliates him. The basic theme of the play is that aristocrats are well educated people of quality who need not work for a livin and jews are mean, rotten ass holes who get uppity if you spit on them. The entire play is anti-semitic to an almost unbelievable degree.

I was given a F for my incisive analysis of "The Mercant of Venice' by a fat, stupid, ugly bitch who didn't like what I had said, for whatever reason that the bitch would not explain. Objectively, I submit that I deserved a A grade. Alas, subjectively I deserved an F grade. Computers don't grade subjectively.

Well, yes, the play is antisemetic--that went with the times. That's not an angle literary criticism is interested in milking from the play, though.

And the computer would have failed you too. (As Weird Herald, I think, tried to explain to you). It wouldn't have been programmed to accept the antisemeitic line critque any more than the fat and ugly bitch of a teacher was.

 

[Black Tulip]

As you point out, the computer allows a child to proceed at his/her/its own pace and to work to increase the child's capabilities.

Let me see if I can quantify 'high school social skills.' If you want to have social success as a male, then you need to arrange to be born to people of money and grow up to be a tall, handsome stud with just enough brains that you can see the things that the other social lions/lionesses see. If you want to have social success as a female, then you need to arrange to be born to people of money and grow up to be a very pretty girl, preferably with big tits [not too obvious augmentation OK.] The female also needs just enough brains that she can see the things that the other social lionesses see and also to conceal the fact that she can actually think. [One other thing is the ability to determine exactly the time to use the ubiquitous phrase, "Keep your hands to yourself!"] Alas, only the few will ever develop outstanding high school social skills.

You gotta' be kiddin' me about the positive encouragement thing, right? I grew up in an abandoned building, surrounded by people who wanted to kill me because my skin was the wrong color. I was called a juvenile delinquent, but I reject the label. I was as much a criminal as any adult. I had any number of attempts made on my life, once per attacker. I was encouraged by the people around me to do things that those around me wanted done to further their own ends, to the total disregard of my own welfare. I was not a social lion. However, first the boys realized that, "Doan mess wi' no Whi Boy" was a good plan. Then the girls realized that the further they stayed away from Whi' Boy, the better, The adults slowly gained some sort of dim understanding. Finally, the scumbags came to the same conclusion. At no time was I ever offered positive encouragement, save by a gang leader called Shaka [if you have any understanding of history, you know what his gang was called.] Shaka wanted me to anchor the left side of his line when his gang was involved in confrontations with other gangs. Since the arrangement boosted my 'rep,' I agreed. In the South Cental your rep is not a matter of life and death, it is much more important than that.

Perhaps the social skills in Europe are defined differently? I was referring to the ability to judge people for their actions instead of their appearance; the ability to work in a team; learning to stand up for your own convictions instead of following the biggest mouth; the understanding that every person has the right to exist without fear etc.

Good for you that you managed to survive and grow into a mature person who can talk about differences of opinion. But not every kid is able to do that on his/her own. Have you ever wondered how your life would have been different if you had teachers who cared about you as a person?

 

[Weird Harold]

An educational program, as such, is CURRENTLY not all that intelligent. However an educational program, such as I am describing, will have access to all of human knowledge in a subject area. Data can be retrieved and presented to the student. Examples galore are available.

The original post in this thread was talking about a real-world, "right now," kind of proposal that would be implemented withthe technology as it exists today or can be developed in he next decade or so.

Your super computer educator simply does NOT fit that criteria -- despite thirty years of prediction that intelligent computers are "just a few years away."

In addition, a strength of computer programs is the ability to recognize patterns in data. Thus a computer program can analyze the interaction with a specific student and determine the proper presentation of subject matter for that student. The analysis is not really done by the computer program but by people who study the interactions between students and subjhect matter presentation.

Within broad limits, you're correct, but any automatic responses to those patterns in data has to be writen into the program by the programmer -- a computer can only respond in ways that the programmer anticipated in advance; otherwise it has to stop and wait for "operator input" or reprogramming for an approppriate response to the pattern.

Perhaps someday when computers have advanced as much beyond today's computers as today's computers are beyond ENIAC, your pipe dream of a computer with instant access to all of human knowledge (on just one subject) might -- but only might -- be possible.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Re:Social skills

What I see in the schools is staff dragging miscreants from classrooms, and it's a rare week when a teacher isnt arrested for sex with students.

Parents are abandoning public schools because of the dummies and the quality of the teachers.

 

[Black Tulip]

Re:Social skills

What I see in the schools is staff dragging miscreants from classrooms, and it's a rare week when a teacher isnt arrested for sex with students.

Parents are abandoning public schools because of the dummies and the quality of the teachers.

Perhaps the lack of anything but public schools (mostly) in my country explains the difference?
Your statement comes from outer space where my educational system is concerned.



ETA: I am curious to what you define as dummies.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BLACK-TULIPS

What is a dummy?

My idea of a dummy is someone who deliberately spoils the education process for everyone, using their conduct to do it. I counseled a dummy yesterday about his conduct in the classroom. He's a large boy and intimidates the smaller children. He's what we call a 'bully.'

He can't care less about learning for himself, and amuses himself with mischief that spoils learning for everyone.

In the Old Days children like my client were plucked from the classroom and isolated, or beaten and returned to class. Now we suffer their nonsense.

 

[Black Tulip]

BLACK-TULIPS

What is a dummy?

My idea of a dummy is someone who deliberately spoils the education process for everyone, using their conduct to do it. I counseled a dummy yesterday about his conduct in the classroom. He's a large boy and intimidates the smaller children. He's what we call a 'bully.'

He can't care less about learning for himself, and amuses himself with mischief that spoils learning for everyone.

In the Old Days children like my client were plucked from the classroom and isolated, or beaten and returned to class. Now we suffer their nonsense.

Ok, that's a clear answer. I'm glad I asked because I anticipated a different answer. LOL

I can almost guarantee a change in attitude if you gave me a few hours to get that kid motivated. No beating neccessary.
Maybe that's exactly why I switched careers to school social work. And another reason why I think a school environment is essential for developping social skills for a lot of kids without a solid home front.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BLACK TULIP

The clock is running out for schools, though.

The tax-bill for schools is already scandalous, and getting worse. And the percentage of dummies and disadvantaged kids in the public schools increases every year. Parents with the means and the motivation are switching their kids to private schools.

The other thing is: The education industry resists innovation, and rewards political dogma and indoctrination when it comes to interventions. I attend school conferences every week, and school professionals impress me as rigid and paralyzed with fear of offending management. Schools violate the education laws wholesale.

 

[R. Richard]

Perhaps the social skills in Europe are defined differently? I was referring to the ability to judge people for their actions instead of their appearance; the ability to work in a team; learning to stand up for your own convictions instead of following the biggest mouth; the understanding that every person has the right to exist without fear etc.

Good for you that you managed to survive and grow into a mature person who can talk about differences of opinion. But not every kid is able to do that on his/her own. Have you ever wondered how your life would have been different if you had teachers who cared about you as a person?

I did and do judge people on their actions/abilities, not their appearance. I did/do this as it was, at least originally necessary to my survival.

Until I manged to work things out with Shaka, I was not allowed to function as a member of 'team.' My skin was he wrong color. [My arrangement with Shaka was practical BECAUSE my skin was the wrong color. I couldn't tak over Shaka's gang, plus, since I was physically smaller than Shaka, the risk to Shaka's rep in hand-to-hand with me was way to great.]

Exist without fear? You're kiddin' me, right? In the South Central, fear is necessary to survival. Fear sharpens the senses and starts the adreneline flowing. When confrontation is immanent, you gotta be wired!

The main problemn in my life was people who cared about me as a person. After a great deal of problems and violence, I had an interview with a prestigeous licensed professsional. I insisted upon a non-neutral observer at the interview. The licensed professional began to as me questions. We got to the question, "Do you think that there are those who would harm you?" I told professional boy, "There are any number of people trying actively to kill me. The people include, . . ." I then ran through a list of names. When I got to one name, the non-neutral observer stopped me and asked me about the circumstances. I filled the non-neutral observer in on the specifics. Professional boy then asked the non-neutral observer, "Then these other boys are actually trying to kill this young man?" The non-neutral observer answered, "Yes, and several more boys." Professional boy then crossed out a section of the notes that he had been compiling. He had pegged me as suffering from paranoid schizophrenia [classical symptoms,] as I later learned. Professional boy then refused my offer to change places for a night. Professional boy thought to help me. If I had followed his well meaning insanity, would have wound up dead.

What I was, was the mental type necessary to survive as Whi' Boy in the South Central. The clinical term is paranoid psychopath. Being a paranoid psychopath white boy in the South Central is not a mental disorder, it is a necessary survival adaptation. Those who thought that they cared about my well being were actually trying to kill me. Of course, they didn't realize that they were trying to kill me, I mean, someone who thought that is obviously paranoid. Then explain to me why professional boy didn't want to use his expensive, licensed expertise to survive for one night in the mean streets and alleyways of the South Central [Said mean streets and alleyways were Whi' Boy's dwelling place.] Before you can solve a problem, you need to understand the problem. The 'caring people' in the publicschool system didn't have a clue, nor were they willing to gain the experience necessary to understand the problem. In fairness, the acquisition of the experience necessary to understand the problem would have led to approximately a 100%death rate.