Will there be another bout of soul searching...

[p_p_man]

now that you have a sniper in your midst.

Will the gun control lobby say, again, it's not, the weapon that kills but the person behind it?

Will George stop taking their huge donations?

Nahhh. I don't think so. And it will take the sniper a very long time to kill you all one by one, so you've still got time to find out who it is...

ppman

 

[curious2c]

Funny thing is, that sniper is striking in an area that has pretty tough gun controls as it is. Wonder why?


By the by, an historical quote by Thomas Jefferson:

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater...confidence that an armed man." (quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and punishment) ((1764))

How true it seems to be. The cities with the most gun controls are having the most serious problems with...GUNS

 

[Guest]

Good point there, Curious.

 

[p_p_man]

Funny thing is, that sniper is striking in an area that has pretty tough gun controls as it is. Wonder why?


By the by, an historical quote by Thomas Jefferson:

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater...confidence that an armed man." (quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and punishment) ((1764))

How true it seems to be. The cities with the most gun controls are having the most serious problems with...GUNS

Gun control or not you do seem to have far more deaths by their use than we do in the UK. And we have only the mildest of gun control...

I think Jefferson was wrong. After all he wrote those words in a time when the West was largely untamed and immigrants from all over the world were flocking to America, bringing their different attitudes to the sanctity of life with them.

Nowadays his thoughts are very much outdated...

ppman

ppman

 

[Guest]

 

[p_p_man]

Everyone should get tooled up for when Islamization comes knocking on your front door

Well I suppose it'd give you a chance to murder your own Islamic citizens...

And feel patriotic about it...

ppman

 

[The Tin Drum]

Everyone should get tooled up for when Islamization comes knocking on your front door

You mean like the Jehovah Witnesses?

 

[p_p_man]

You mean like the Jehovah Witnesses?

ppman

 

[Guest]

Gun control or not you do seem to have far more deaths by their use than we do in the UK. And we have only the mildest of gun control...

I think Jefferson was wrong. After all he wrote those words in a time when the West was largely untamed and immigrants from all over the world were flocking to America, bringing their different attitudes to the sanctity of life with them.

Nowadays his thoughts are very much outdated...

ppman

ppman

I think you rest the case. Gun control does not stop those using guns for crime.

 

[p_p_man]

I think you rest the case. Gun control does not stop those using guns for crime.

Well, OK.

Maybe the problem lies not in gun control but the inability of the police to catch the criminal and the inability of the courts to consider the justice of a case instead of becoming entangled in points of law, that often enough, allow the criminal who is caught to be set free.

ppman

 

[MunchinMark]

It does reduce the number of accidents. And guns are so much harder to get for those who would use them for criminal purposes. Of course not impossible, theft and a black market must exist.

 

[curious2c]

p p man, as long as we have cops that are on the take and violent to the public, as long as there are thieves and killers out there free and loose, and as long as we have a government that is growing in power WE the PEOPLE of THIS COUNTRY have a responsibility and and very real need to protect ourselves from those very things.

Also, if I remember correctly The UK recently had most if not all guns turned in and destroyed. Your crime rate over the last couple of years has skyrocketed, check your own governments figures on that. I did. Same goes for Austrailia too. Guns turned in, crime goes up. Substanstially.

Madison, Jefferson, Washington, and our other forefathers are not now nor ever will be 'outdated'. Look at history and even the present times. Govenments that remove the self-protection from the people become tyrannical and or despotical in a short time. Look at what happened in WW2, Russia, China and N Korea. They seized the power and the people had or have no way to resist. The government of China has power absoulte and it does what it wants and the people have no choice but to follow what they are told.

I believe that the only thing that keeps our other amendments in the Bill Of Rights safe is the second amendment, that beign the right of the people to keep and bear arms. Without arms the press can not stand against the government, rights that are otherwise wet down are also threatened. Everyday I see little attempts by our government and the its agencies to remove from the people those very rights that are meant to protect us. It was disscussed very thoroughly in the Federalists Papers by our forefathers and they were afraid of the very thing that our government is trying to do to us today.

You sit in your country and point fingers at us over here, but we have these rights and I for one, intend to fight to keep them however I have to. THAT IS MY RIGHT.

 

[The Tin Drum]

Virginia has gun control like NYC has rat control.

 

[curious2c]

D.C. had very stringent gun control laws in effect. So does NYC and LA.

 

[p_p_man]

Your crime rate over the last couple of years has skyrocketed, check your own governments figures on that. I did.

That was due to a change in the way of how crime statistics were recorded. Not to an actual rise in crime.

ppman

 

[bored1]

Well, OK.

Maybe the problem lies not in gun control but the inability of the police to catch the criminal and the inability of the courts to consider the justice of a case instead of becoming entangled in points of law, that often enough, allow the criminal who is caught to be set free.

ppman

Tell us p_pman, how YOU would catch this piece of human garbage? You seem to have all the answers.

 

[curious2c]

One other point for you p p man, VIOLENT CRIME in the UK for 2002 is up 16% Robbery is up 26%, and the site that I got this from is obviously anti-gun. My point is, if having or owning a gun does nothing but cause crime, why, after your 1997 handgun ban, has your crime rate gone up every year in these percentages? Is it because the crooks know with almost certainty that their victims have no way to fight back or protect themselves? That would be my guess since in states where we have enacted conceal-carry laws again, making it legal for citizens to go armed, the crime rate has held or is falling off. Think about it. If you were a crook would you willingly go into someone's home if you knew that they might have a weapon and use it on you? Or would you rather have all the citizens unarmed, making your threat of violence much more powerful so that you could take what you wanted as you saw fit?

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

 

[p_p_man]

That was due to a change in the way crime statistics were recorded. Not to an actual rise in crime.

ppman

There has been some confusion over statistics in the UK though due to two sets of analysis criteria being used...

"According to the recorded crime figures (after subtracting the 5% increase for new reporting criteria) crime overall has increased by 2%. In contrast, the British Crime Survey says it has fallen by 2%.

Stable crime situation

The line from the government is that this reflects a stable situation, with crime not increasing after several years of declining crime figures, in particular 14% down since 1999."

ppman

 

[miles]

Pee Pee, I'll bet you a gallon of warm grog you can't go seven days without starting threads about Bush, the U.S., or the Middle East.

 

[Guest]

 

[riff]

now that you have a sniper in your midst.

Will the gun control lobby say, again, it's not, the weapon that kills but the person behind it?

Will George stop taking their huge donations?

Nahhh. I don't think so. And it will take the sniper a very long time to kill you all one by one, so you've still got time to find out who it is...

ppman

Why you want to be an asshole? The people that got killed are real. So many times I have admired your ability to speak against popular opinion. But now you are just being an asshole. I hope you feel good about yourself. I cannot imagine how it makes you feel better.

What the fuck is up with you?

 

[curious2c]

p p man posted:


There has been some confusion over statistics in the UK though due to two sets of analysis criteria being used...

"According to the recorded crime figures (after subtracting the 5% increase for new reporting criteria) crime overall has increased by 2%. In contrast, the British Crime Survey says it has fallen by 2%.

Stable crime situation

The line from the government is that this reflects a stable situation, with crime not increasing after several years of declining crime figures, in particular 14% down since 1999."

ppman
____________________________________________________

Yeah, if I was the government I sure as hell wouldn't want the people finding out that the crime rate had gone up after enacting such a moronic law as to disarm it's citizens, so I would for sure 'cook the books' so it apeared to be falling or holding it's own. Why change how they keep track unless there is something to hide from the people? Hmmmm?

 

[p_p_man]

One other point for you p p man, VIOLENT CRIME in the UK for 2002 is up 16% Robbery is up 26%, and the site that I got this from is obviously anti-gun. My point is, if having or owning a gun does nothing but cause crime, why, after your 1997 handgun ban, has your crime rate gone up every year in these percentages? Is it because the crooks know with almost certainty that their victims have no way to fight back or protect themselves? That would be my guess since in states where we have enacted conceal-carry laws again, making it legal for citizens to go armed, the crime rate has held or is falling off. Think about it. If you were a crook would you willingly go into someone's home if you knew that they might have a weapon and use it on you? Or would you rather have all the citizens unarmed, making your threat of violence much more powerful so that you could take what you wanted as you saw fit?

No of course we have gun crime in the UK, but as I said the increase can be contributed to the new way of analysing the statistics.

Gun crime is still so unusual over here that it makes front page, headkine news. The only exceptions are criminal killing criminal in drug related shootings, which is becoming a cause for concern for the authorites, and the ever present Yardies from Jamaica, who kill indiscrimiantly amongsth themselves.

But incidents like the Washington sniper or the killing in your schools by disturbed students are largely unknown...

ppman