Why Islam is disrespected

[*******]

Oh, religious dogma doesn't have a monopoly on mass murder and mayhem. Read up on Communism. Then again, there is a great deal of Socialist/Communist belief that requires 'faith'.

Ishmael

Communism has a religion called Dialectical Materialism...

 

[RobDownSouth]

Timmy was a direct ally of Al Qaeda but in the Clinton administration's rush to blame it on "angry white men," the real danger to America at that time, he was killed before we could get the truth out of him.

Look at the new information they got out of his buddy just the week before last...

McVeigh was a "libertarian", just like you AJ
McVeigh hated gummint, just like you AJ
McVeigh served in the military, just like you AJ
McVeigh had a screw loose, just like you AJ

The only difference between you and him was he actually had the courage to act on his misguided hatred. You don't, AJ.

 

[*******]

You're the only person that daily displays hatred, invective, and compulsive behavior...

I'm just surprised to find myself usurping Ish as your number one target.

You'll "get" to the smart guy long before you get to me. I made a pretty successful career out of teaching children and dealing with their behavioral problems. And befire you try to ascribe ANYTHING to A_J or the Libertarians we need to have a frank discussion of the 1968 Democrat National Convention where most of their current leadership cut it's teeth...

If I get you in my sights, BOOM BOOM!

What is it?

Out go da lights!

 

[Ishmael]

Communism has a religion called Dialectical Materialism...

Remember watching the old May Day parades in Moscow? The politburo up on that dias as the hoards marched by? Now think "Pope on the balcony."

Ishmael

 

[*******]

Okay, so the pope hikes up his pants and outta the woods...

 

[Veryknowing]

I finally shut peeps up on this issue, now it's your turn.

If you do the math from the time we got involved to the time the UN report was put out, we would have had to killed roughly 2,000 Iraqi civilians every single fawkin' day. Now how long could we have covered that up with the rabid out to get Bush mentality we have in the world press?

You are repeating a big lie loud and long as per Goebbels 101...

How do you work that one out? To reach 100,000 dead civilians didn't just take 50 days and the UN report didn't come out just 50 days after the initial invasion either.

You must've failed math in school

As to covering up the deathtoll, that's the whole point isn't it? The USA and UK didn't succeed in covering up the civilian deathtoll - if they had, you lot wouldn't even be having this discussion.

It seems you're the Goebbels acolyte here.

 

[Veryknowing]

Timmy was a direct ally of Al Qaeda but in the Clinton administration's rush to blame it on "angry white men," the real danger to America at that time, he was killed before we could get the truth out of him.

Look at the new information they got out of his buddy just the week before last...

Now you're just making stuff up

Post a link.

 

[Ishmael]

Looks like he's going to try out all his alts.

Ishmael

 

[*******]

We would have had to have been killing hundreds per day to get to such a high toll of innocents.

What is coldly calculating in the Left's willngness to artribute people killed by the radical jihadists as the fault of the United States ala Ward Churchill. So when a Saudi citizen who came in from Syria blows himself up killing Shi'ites on behalf of Sunnis in order to get to civil war and the re-establishement off "the Base" and that number is dumped into a UN report and used to blame the United States I disreguard that stat as meaningless.

So the 100,000 number is ludicrous as a measuring stick.

A good measuring stick would be the high numbers of Muslims who showed up to vote despite the threats forom the Muslim world.

Or the formation of a government.

Or how about a celebration of the 10,000th radical killed?

Hell, we never even celebrated when we got to 1500 like we did when it was our soldiers. Gawd how ya'll LOVED that number too!

 

[Veryknowing]

Looks like he's going to try out all his alts.

Ishmael

That's your wonderful grand insight is it? You've fucking flipped!

Must suck being a paranoid all the time.

 

[*******]

Now you're just making stuff up

Post a link.

We know they trained in the Philippines with Al Aqaeda. They confessed. Prove me wrong, I'm not in the mood to humor a Neo-comm...

 

[Ishmael]

We would have had to have been killing hundreds per day to get to such a high toll of innocents.

What is coldly calculating in the Left's willngness to artribute people killed by the radical jihadists as the fault of the United States ala Ward Churchill. So when a Saudi citizen who came in from Syria blows himself up killing Shi'ites on behalf of Sunnis in order to get to civil war and the re-establishement off "the Base" and that number is dumped into a UN report and used to blame the United States I disreguard that stat as meaningless.

So the 100,000 number is ludicrous as a measuring stick.

A good measuring stick would be the high numbers of Muslims who showed up to vote despite the threats forom the Muslim world.

Or the formation of a government.

Or how about a celebration of the 10,000th radical killed?

Hell, we never even celebrated when we got to 1500 like we did when it was our soldiers. Gawd how ya'll LOVED that number too!

The 'cult of victimization' and a whole lot of gubmint schooling.

Ishmael

 

[Veryknowing]

We would have had to have been killing hundreds per day to get to such a high toll of innocents.

It's basically a war zone. Bombs kill lots of people all at once. US does an airstrike on a village, they kill dozens at least. They do plenty of airstrikes. Lots of wounded people can't get to a hospital and even when they do, the hospital hasn't got any medicine - so lots more people die of lethal injuries that might otherwise have been treatable. USA has even bombed hospitals (like the one reporting all those casualties in Fallujah).

Fallujah was utterly devastated by weapons which are banned under international law, banned by the Geneva Convention, want to argue that the USA isn't breaking the rules I'll blow your piss-poor excuses away - DU is against the Geneva Convention and international law. Same with cluster bombs.

Even the Iraqi health ministry has complained about the naplam-like weapon used in Fallujah.

The UN report that's being referred to, didn't by the way, say that every single one of those dead civilians was killed by a Coalition bomb or bullet. It cited circumstances such as lack of medicines, health care, destroyed homes, unsafe water supplies, as well. All this adds up fast. During the 12 years of sanctions according to the UN World Health Organisation, between 600,000 and 1,000,000 children died due to those sanctions; that's at least 136 a day isn't it? I'd think any reasonable person would say that the current situation in Iraq is far more life threatening and dangerous than it was before the invasion, wouldn't you? Most people would agree with that oppinon.

 

[Veryknowing]

We know they trained in the Philippines with Al Aqaeda. They confessed. Prove me wrong, I'm not in the mood to humor a Neo-comm...

Which al-Queda?

The MOSSAD one? The Pakistani Military Intelligence one? The CIA one?

Which one?

It seems "Blame al-Queda" is the only excuse you nitwits have.

A bomb goes off, blame al-Queda before any investigation whatsoever. That's the rule isn't?

 

[*******]

It's no more a war zone than LA in the summer of a Piston's game up in New Fallujiah.

I talked to the soldiers who just came back. They area they were in was completely pacified. They were never even shot at...

You are siding with the defeatist Leftward tilted world press who seek to defeat this effort politically by manipulating the news ala Vietnam. If it bleads it leads, but nary an image of the work our local engineering battlion was engaged in because you don't want the Muslim or French-run Euro World to see pictures of Americans building schools, hospitals, clinics, water lines, electrical grids, and trust because it would make you look kinda, well, small, and mean-spirited. I mean, THOSE people don't want freedom, they're not capable of it, they should only be counted as 3/5 or maybe 2/3 of a person. They were better off under Saddam, right?

 

[*******]

Let me see, 100,000*.666 = 66,600.

Hey, the numbers improve under the new Neo-Comm Million Man Math Method...

 

[Ishmael]

I see VK is displaying his ignorance once more.

Infant mortality in Iraq is 50 deaths per 1000 live births. If we take that bogus UN death number we arrive at 2720 births per day. Over a 10 year period that extrapolates to a population explosion of 9,846,400 people. This would have to occur in a nation where 40% of the population is under 14 years of age and 7.5 million women between the ages of 15 and 65.

So here we have some 'estimates' by a thoroughly discredited and corrupt organization colliding with some hard demographic facts.

Fuck the UN and all it's followers.

Ishmael

 

[*******]

Which al-Queda?

The MOSSAD one? The Pakistani Military Intelligence one? The CIA one?

Which one?

It seems "Blame al-Queda" is the only excuse you nitwits have.

A bomb goes off, blame al-Queda before any investigation whatsoever. That's the rule isn't?

The one figureheaded by Osama bin Laden and this Zachawi dude. Actually it's a collection of loosly related groups. We saw the same thing in the 60's and 70's when all the loonies from Tokyo to Tehran decided Israel needed to go...

In short, it's a lot of familiar faces. It's time we stood up to them because nothing else has worked and they were growing bolder by the Somalia just as Osama talked about when he talked about why they would be successful with his strong horse, weak horse parable. Saddam standing the Western World down would have been seen as just one more positive indicator that we were decadent, soft, and ready to be toppled. I'll betcha he's not so sure about that now. About the only good news Osama is getting is coming from the Liberal World news...

 

[Ishmael]

The one figureheaded by Osama bin Laden and this Zachawi dude. Actually it's a collection of loosly related groups. We saw the same thing in the 60's and 70's when all the loonies from Tokyo to Tehran decided Israel needed to go...

In short, it's a lot of familiar faces. It's time we stood up to them because nothing else has worked and they were growing bolder by the Somalia just as Osama talked about when he talked about why they would be successful with his strong horse, weak horse parable. Saddam standing the Western World down would have been seen as just one more positive indicator that we were decadent, soft, and ready to be toppled. I'll betcha he's not so sure about that now. About the only good news Osama is getting is coming from the Liberal World news...

And LT/Bobby/Rob posting under a myriad of alts here on Lit.

Ishmael

 

[Lovelynice]

It's no more a war zone than LA in the summer of a Piston's game up in New Fallujiah.

I talked to the soldiers who just came back. They area they were in was completely pacified. They were never even shot at...

That's nice. Were they living in a hotel in Kuwait perhaps?

I just talked to a US soldier a few days ago who was based in the Green Zone in Baghdad and said that they were attacked and bombed so frequently that at times it seemed almost hourly. He was only going back home for a week and then being sent right back to Iraq again.

 

[Lovelynice]

I see VK is displaying his ignorance once more.

Infant mortality in Iraq is 50 deaths per 1000 live births. If we take that bogus UN death number we arrive at 2720 births per day. Over a 10 year period that extrapolates to a population explosion of 9,846,400 people. This would have to occur in a nation where 40% of the population is under 14 years of age and 7.5 million women between the ages of 15 and 65.

So here we have some 'estimates' by a thoroughly discredited and corrupt organization colliding with some hard demographic facts.

Fuck the UN and all it's followers.

Ishmael

Playing with numbers and using bad math?

The UN was NOT basing it's estimate of the number of civilians killed on "infant mortality", since not all civilians are infants. Very silly Ishmael. Your excuse at mathematical proof is bogus.

 

[Lovelynice]

Which al-Queda?

The MOSSAD one? The Pakistani Military Intelligence one? The CIA one?

Which one?

It seems "Blame al-Queda" is the only excuse you nitwits have.

A bomb goes off, blame al-Queda before any investigation whatsoever. That's the rule isn't?

Maybe the "nitwits" are referring to the MOSSAD al-Queda....


Mossad agents Killing Oz Tourists to Steal their Identity used in terror opps
The Israeli Mossad agent Zev Barkan has been running Asian criminal gangs used to obtain Australian Identity documents and other passports stolen from Australians Killed in Asia, a New Zealand security official has said.

I was contacted by a New Zealand official, who has intelligence connections in Asia while I was shopping in Toul Tom Pong Market in Phnom Penh and provided documents to support this information on the condition that it remain anonymous and I not publish the documents considering the risk to officials if the source of this leak was identified, this New Zealand official said Barkan was connected to an Israeli terrorist cell operating out of Thailand.

"He goes to Laos, Cambodia, Burma and Thailand and is running gangs that he pays to kill tourists, and steal their Identity papers passports then cover it up, most just disappear or their deaths have been reported as accidents, drownings and such, they like to throw their victims off the side of tour boats" said a New Zealand security official

Barkan has been named by New Zealand authorities as the kingpin in a passport theft ring for which two Israelis with Australian links were jailed for six months last week in Auckland.

One of the jailed men, Eli Cara, 50, had his rented home in Turramurra raided by ASIO in March. A short time later, he was arrested in New Zealand.

The New Zealand Government has named Barkan, Cara and the other convicted man, Uriel Kelman, as Mossad agents.

Barkan fled New Zealand before police moved in. There are reports that Barkan, using a Stolen Canadian Identity documents, has now made a move to North Korea out of reach of authorities.

"Barkan is mostly interested in passports and identity documents, there have been a number of Australian killed for their passports."

Intelligence analysts in New Zealand believe Barkan, a former navy diver in the Israeli IOF, was trying to secure a clean passports for use in Israeli terrorist operations in the region.

Barkan had grown up in Washington as Zev Bruckenstein, where his father was director of religious studies at a synagogue.

A New Zealand security official says his services have uncovered an Israeli operation to create al-Qaeda cells in Thailand. The security official in Thailand said Israeli terrorist are posing as operatives of al-Qaeda.

Over the past nine months we have been investigating eight cases, 11 people informed us of this Israeli operation, asking Thai Landers to join al-Qaeda. One email had even been signed by the al-Qaeda leader, Osama bin Laden. a New Zealand official said.

A New Zealand official said his services had traced back to Israel the phone calls and emails - purportedly from Germany and Lebanon and Pakistan.

We investigated the origin of those calls and found out they all came from Israel.

The people the Israelis tried to recruit were then given stolen Australian documents, and received money and weapons.

The money was provided by Israel directly to the recruits or was transferred from bank accounts in Jerusalem or Israel, said the New Zealand official.


Indymedia - Melbourne






Israeli agents accused of creating fake al-Qaeda cell

Mr Abu Shbak said his services had traced back to Israel mobile phone calls and emails - purportedly from Germany and Lebanon - asking Palestinians to join al-Qaeda. One email had even been "signed" by the al-Qaeda leader, Osama bin Laden.

"We investigated the origin of those calls and found out they all came from Israel."

Sydney Morning Herald
Cache copy e investigated those calls

 

[Veryknowing]

Playing with numbers and using bad math?

The UN was NOT basing it's estimate of the number of civilians killed on "infant mortality", since not all civilians are infants. Very silly Ishmael. Your excuse at mathematical proof is bogus.

Ishmael has never been good at math when he's trying to defend a ridiculous argument. Like those maps of Baghdad that he didn't bother to check the scale of

 

[cjh]

Don't confuse these yokels with facts now.

They attempt to draw this line of moral equivalency between Islam and Christianity, or in pp's case, Judaism. I still don't understand their purpose in doing so.

Is it so they can exonerate the Islamic fundamentalists? Why would they want to do that?

Why would they fear "the rapture" if they are non-believers. Seems to me to be a case of fear of things 'that go bump in the night.' Or perhaps they're truly 'closet Christian Fundamentalists' that fear 'the rapture' because they fear they just aren't gong to make the cut?

Whatever the case I wonder if they realize that they're displaying an irrational fear that has no basis in known fact?

They go on and on about all of the evil done in the name of religion (focusing mostly on Christianity thereby demonstrating the shallowness of their education and ignorance of history). They do this while ignoring the fact that the greatest mass slaughter of human life in the shortest period of time came from the hands of those that professed NO faith whatsoever.

The second greatest slaughter of human life on this planet in a short period of time had nothing to do with religion either. Read up on the Mongol Hoards to relive that pastoral period of human history.

It becomes apparent that their irrational fear is probably more a product of their educational background rather than knowledge built on, or beholding to, anything that approaches fact.

Ishmael

only exonerating going on is your silly refusal to acknowledge that christian fundamentalists rely on the bible to justify batting at the beehive of the middle east, which, just like the islamic fundamentalists you revile so, puts all of us at risk.

our fears may be irrational; if so, we'll stand in line with some of the good folks at the national review in being irrational.

Red-Heifer Days
Religion takes the lead.

Could this little calf born last month in Israel bring about Armageddon? The concept would have struck many people as absurd the last time such a calf was born, in 1997, and probably makes most readers laugh today. Big mistake: Never underestimate the power of religious faith to shape events, especially in the Holy Land. Especially right now.


Our eschatological heifer story begins on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, where tens of millions of Jews, Muslims, and Christians believe the central events of each tradition's Last Days will play out. The site, the Biblical Mount Moriah, was the site of the Hebrews' First Temple, destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC, and the Second Temple, which the Romans leveled in 70 AD. Muslims, believing the site to be the place from which the Prophet Mohammed ascended into Heaven atop a steed, began in 685 to build the Noble Sanctuary, a 35-acre site in Jerusalem's walled Old City, containing the Dome of the Rock shrine and the al Aqsa mosque.

To Jews who adhere to ancient tradition, whose number include religious Israeli nationalists, the long-awaited Messiah will return to become the king of Israel and high priest of a rebuilt Temple, which can only be on Temple Mount. For Christian fundamentalists, Jesus Christ's return at the height of the battle of Armageddon, in which forces of the Antichrist clash in Israel with a 200 million-man army from the East, will require a Third Temple from which the Lord will begin a millennial reign. And for Muslims, an Antichrist figure called the Dajal will be a Jew who will lead an all-encompassing war against Islam, which will culminate in the return of Jesus (as a Muslim prophet), the Kaaba, or Sacred Rock in Mecca, transporting itself to Jerusalem, and final judgment in the valley just below the Noble Sanctuary.

"What happens at that one spot, more than anywhere else, quickens expectations of the End in three religions. And at that spot, the danger of provoking catastrophe is greatest," writes Israeli journalist Gershom Gorenberg in The End of Days, his 2000 book about the apocalyptic struggle over the Temple Mount.

So how does the calf recently born in Israel figure into things? As Gorenberg explains, the ashes of a flawless red heifer — an extremely rare creature — were required by the ancient Hebrews to purify worshipers who went into the Temple to pray. In modern times, rabbinical law forbids Jews from setting foot on the Temple Mount, thus violating the site where the Holy of Holies dwelled, until and unless they are ritually purified. Without a perfect red heifer to sacrifice, the Third Temple cannot be built, and Moshiach — the Messiah — will not come. Writes Gorenberg, "[Israeli] government officials and military leaders could only regard the requirement for the missing heifer as a stroke of sheer good fortune preventing conflict over the Mount."

In 1996, thanks in part to a cattle-breeding program set up in Israel with the help of Texas ranchers who are fundamentalist Christians, a red heifer was born. There was immense excitement among messianists of the Israeli religious Right, and their American Christian counterparts.The world media covered it as a joke, but it wasn't funny to David Landau, columnist for the Israeli daily Haaretz. He called the red heifer "a four-legged bomb" that could "set the entire region on fire." Muslim leaders worried about the red heifer too, as they would see an attempt by Jews to take over the Temple Mount as a sign of the Islamic apocalypse.

As it turned out, during the three years of waiting for the heifer to reach the ritually mandated age of sacrifice, white hairs popped out on the tip of her tail. This bovine was, alas, not divine. But now there's a successor, and rabbis who have examined her have declared her ritually acceptable (though she will not be ready for sacrifice for three years). She arrives at a time when Israel is fighting a war for survival with the Palestinians, who are almost entirely Muslim, and a time in which Islam and the West appear to be girding for battle with each other, as Islamic tradition predicts will be the state of the world before the Final Judgment.

"These kinds of circumstances are exactly what people are waiting for," says Richard Landes, a Boston University history professor and director of its Center for Millenial Studies. "We could be starting a war. If this is a real red heifer, and strict Orthodox rabbis have declared her worthy of sacrifice, then a lot of Jews in Israel will take that as a sign that a new phase of history is about to begin. The Muslims are ready for jihad anyway, so if you have Jews up there doing sacrifices, talk about a red flag in front of a charging bull."

Landes says there is immense anger among Israelis, both religious and secular, at the ingratitude of Muslims, whom the conquering Israeli army allowed to occupy and control the Temple Mount in 1967. Add to this the fury of a nation under attack by Islamic suicide bombers, and, says Landes, "it's entirely conceivable that this [red heifer] could trigger a new round of attempts to blow up the Dome of the Rock."

This is something the Israeli security forces have long been vigilant against. But with their attentions drawn elsewhere by the war with the Palestinians, it's possible that a radical group could slip the net. And it's possible that religious extremists elements within the Israeli army could help them.

"This idea is nothing to laugh at," says novelist Robert Stone, whose novel Damascus Gate centers around a similar conspiracy. "There have been at least four actual plots to clear the space where the Temple had stood. Some of them went surprisingly high into the army and police."

Timothy Weber, dean of Northern Baptist Theological Seminary in Lombard, Ill., has written extensively about the worldview of apocalypse-minded American Protestants. He tells NRO that "Bible teachers are foaming at the mouth over what's happening now in Israel."

"It really does play into the longstanding scenario that dispensationalists have believed would happen in the End: a growing disdain for Israel, Israel's isolation from the rest of the world, and mounting pressure on the Jewish state," Weber says. "This all leads up to the emergence of an Antichrist, who will step up and bring peace to the situation, and Israel and the world will welcome him as a solution to an apparently unsolvable problem."

The unshakable belief in particular prophetic visions — Jewish, Christian, or Islamic — makes the art of political compromise impossible when it comes to Jerusalem. Says Weber: "There's no way to negotiate these ideas. If you believe that this is in the prophetic cards, that this is history before it happens, that this is how God is going to manipulate events to bring about the final phase of human history, then you cannot negotiate land for peace, or anything else."

Put another way: You don't have to believe that a rust-colored calf could bring about the end of the world — or that 72 black-eyed virgins await the pious Islamic suicide bomber in paradise — but there are many people who do, and are prepared to act on that belief. This is a stubborn reality that eludes many of us in the modern, secular West, particularly those who work in the media, and who are therefore responsible for reporting and explaining the world to the masses.

"Sometimes you look at religion events and you want to laugh out loud, because they're so bizarre," says Terry Mattingly, a syndicated religion columnist and scholar of media and religion at Palm Beach Atlantic College. "If your worldview is essentially materialist, then to be 'real' something has to present itself in a form that makes sense in a laboratory, or on Wall Street, or in the New Hampshire primary, and anything that can't be explained within those templates doesn't count. Thus we can't seem to understand why people behave in ways that don't serve their self-interest."

Boston University's Landes agrees, saying that the American cultural elite tend to disdain religion, when in fact it is a major factor in modern history. "When 9/11 happened, one of the questions people asked were, 'Is it religious, or is it political?' People are more comfortable explaining it as politics. The very fact that people asked that question shows how little they understand," he says.

"Since September 11, we have all been brought to the point of recognizing the pervasive power of religions to shape all kinds of events," Weber adds. "We are dealing with ancient religious convictions and memories, and they are driving forces in the modern world. The secular press just doesn't get it, but it seems to me there's no other way to understand this."

http://www.nationalreview.com/dreher/dreher041102.asp

damn yokels at boston university have set up a Center for Millennial Studies to study these very issues. http://www.mille.org/ but then, that's an academic approach undoubtedly ignorant of anything approaching knowledge.

in your initial post, you state "As irresponsible as Newsweeks article was, Newsweek didn't send out it's staff to gin up riots and violence."

true. nor has newsweek tried to breed red calves to fulfill the prophesy of the apocalypse. nor are they in the words of the article i posted earlier, "staging confrontations at the old temple site (in 2000, three US Christians were deported for trying to blow up the mosques there), sponsoring Jewish settlements in the occupied territories, demanding ever more US support for Israel, and seeking to provoke a final battle with the Muslim world/Axis of Evil/United Nations/ European Union/France or whoever the legions of the antichrist turn out to be."

 

[Gringao]

Playing with numbers and using bad math?

The UN was NOT basing it's estimate of the number of civilians killed on "infant mortality", since not all civilians are infants. Very silly Ishmael. Your excuse at mathematical proof is bogus.

The 100,000 figure isn't from the UN, it's from a "study" in The Lancet that has been discredited so thoroughly that ignorance of it can only be called willful. It's almost as bad as citing insane anti-semitic tracts claiming Israeal is killing Aussies to steal their identities for perpetrating terrorist acts.

You're batty.