Why Is Sex Dirty?

[dr_mabeuse]

I've been wondering about this for a long time-- What makes sex "dirty"?

It's more than just our upbringing or what we're taught. Sex is concsidered special the whole world over. It's dirtier in some cultures than in others (dirtier in the US than in Europe, for examp,e, and even dirtier yet in the Arab countries), but even in the most sexually liberated cultures it's still treated with a great deal of respect and circumspection. Shame and pwer are always associated with it.

I have a couple of ideas, but I don't know if they're of much use.

One is Freud's old idea that anatomy is destiny, that the fact that our sexual organs are also our excretory organs teaches us at a very young age that there's something forbidden about them. Might be something to that, but I'm not too convinced.

Another is that sex involves loss of personal control and a kind of power exchange that we find threatening to our autonomy. It makes us vulnerable and exposes us at our most unguarded moments. Sex is dangerous, and therfore has to be treated with a lot of respect.

But what makes a story "dirty"? There are plenty of stories on Lit of open, loving sex, and they always seem flat and pretty unintersting to me. I always look for the dirtiness, the sense of transgression. It's not just breaking social taboos--there's as many dull, undirty incest storries here as any other kind--it's something else.

I'd be interested in any ideas or opinions. What makes sex dirty and exciting?

--Zoot

 

[ltnsfr007]

I've been wondering about this for a long time-- What makes sex "dirty"?

It's more than just our upbringing or what we're taught. Sex is concsidered special the whole world over. It's dirtier in some cultures than in others (dirtier in the US than in Europe, for examp,e, and even dirtier yet in the Arab countries), but even in the most sexually liberated cultures it's still treated with a great deal of respect and circumspection. Shame and pwer are always associated with it.

I have a couple of ideas, but I don't know if they're of much use.

One is Freud's old idea that anatomy is destiny, that the fact that our sexual organs are also our excretory organs teaches us at a very young age that there's something forbidden about them. Might be something to that, but I'm not too convinced.

Another is that sex involves loss of personal control and a kind of power exchange that we find threatening to our autonomy. It makes us vulnerable and exposes us at our most unguarded moments. Sex is dangerous, and therfore has to be treated with a lot of respect.

But what makes a story "dirty"? There are plenty of stories on Lit of open, loving sex, and they always seem flat and pretty unintersting to me. I always look for the dirtiness, the sense of transgression. It's not just breaking social taboos--there's as many dull, undirty incest storries here as any other kind--it's something else.

I'd be interested in any ideas or opinions. What makes sex dirty and exciting?

--Zoot

Cause you gatta wash up afterwards

 

[Aurora Black]

The thrill of connecting with another person in such an intense and invasive way. Allowing him/her to enter your personal space. The meshing of flesh and the mingling of sweat and other fluids.

 

[Guest]

What makes sex dirty and exciting?

--Zoot

For me, it's about experimenting and taking risks... all in the aim of experiencing the best feelings in the world.

Sex feels more dirty and exciting when it's risky and not "normal".

I had a conversation about this the other day and said that I find the act of being fingered to be dirtier than the actual act of being fucked (depending of course on the hows, whys and wheres of it all). His response made a lot of sense to me. If I can remember properly, he said something along the lines of...

"When you're being fucked, it's for our mutual pleasure, but when you are being fingered, I'm doing it to you, just because I can. I am inflicting it on you. I am invading something very personal to you, and taking you to your most vulnerable. When I bring you off, I'm the one doing it to you - I am in complete control, and you come when I want you to come - I decide the tempo/ferocity and so on, whereas when I'm fucking you, it's more of a two-way thing - even the hardest, most aggressive fucking."

I've probably got a lot more to say on this subject, but that's a start for me.

 

[impressive]

I've been wondering about this for a long time-- What makes sex "dirty"?

It's more than just our upbringing or what we're taught. Sex is concsidered special the whole world over. It's dirtier in some cultures than in others (dirtier in the US than in Europe, for examp,e, and even dirtier yet in the Arab countries), but even in the most sexually liberated cultures it's still treated with a great deal of respect and circumspection. Shame and pwer are always associated with it.

I have a couple of ideas, but I don't know if they're of much use.

One is Freud's old idea that anatomy is destiny, that the fact that our sexual organs are also our excretory organs teaches us at a very young age that there's something forbidden about them. Might be something to that, but I'm not too convinced.

Another is that sex involves loss of personal control and a kind of power exchange that we find threatening to our autonomy. It makes us vulnerable and exposes us at our most unguarded moments. Sex is dangerous, and therfore has to be treated with a lot of respect.

But what makes a story "dirty"? There are plenty of stories on Lit of open, loving sex, and they always seem flat and pretty unintersting to me. I always look for the dirtiness, the sense of transgression. It's not just breaking social taboos--there's as many dull, undirty incest storries here as any other kind--it's something else.

I'd be interested in any ideas or opinions. What makes sex dirty and exciting?

--Zoot

It's "dirty" because we've been conditioned to believe it "forbidden." At various points in the history of both religions and politics, the powers-that-wanted-to-be(-or remain) realized it was a hook for control of the masses. *shrug*

 

[scheherazade_79]

I'm with Imp. I think it's because the Bible said so. Control the one thing that all people desire, and you end up controlling them.

Look at the way Muslims are promised all those virgins for blowing themselves up.

 

[Guest]

I always thought it was part of that Puritan work ethic, that code of morality, that thought process that causes many to believe if something is enjoyable it must be a sin.

Almost like having a decadent dessert and exclaiming over each bite "I can't believe I'm eating this! It's too rich - it's positively sinful!"

We feel guilt (later) about padding our hips, perhaps, but still enjoy the experience of eating such a fattening treat.

In the same manner when we give in to those naughty thoughts, those decadent desires, allowing our rich fantasies to take the lead, do we feel guilt afterwards because we gave in, because we enjoyed our sexual indulgences?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I had a conversation about this the other day and said that I find the act of being fingered to be dirtier than the actual act of being fucked (depending of course on the hows, whys and wheres of it all). His response made a lot of sense to me. If I can remember properly, he said something along the lines of...

"When you're being fucked, it's for our mutual pleasure, but when you are being fingered, I'm doing it to you, just because I can. I am inflicting it on you. I am invading something very personal to you, and taking you to your most vulnerable. When I bring you off, I'm the one doing it to you - I am in complete control, and you come when I want you to come - I decide the tempo/ferocity and so on, whereas when I'm fucking you, it's more of a two-way thing - even the hardest, most aggressive fucking."

I've probably got a lot more to say on this subject, but that's a start for me.

Yes, yes! This comes close to what I've been thinking too. Sex is dirty and dangerous because there's a surrender of control. Our pleasure makes us victims to our lovers.

The idea of being fingered, or of getting a handjob, say, is much dirtier and sexier than normal coital sex, and I think it has to do with our helplessness in our own pleasure, our loss of control.

One of the dirtiest scenes I've written lately involved a man torn about having sex with a younger girl. He wanted her, yet he didn't want to "ruin" her, so he just rubbed his cock against her panties till he came on her stomach. I was trying to to figure out why I found that so sexy and I realized it was his helplessness to control himself, the tension between doing it and not doing it.

Had he just screwed her, it wouldn't have been half as dirty or as powerful.

 

[FallingToFly]

I've been wondering about this for a long time-- What makes sex "dirty"?
<snip>

I'd be interested in any ideas or opinions. What makes sex dirty and exciting?

--Zoot

Sex is seldom dirty in my book. I don't agree with certain acts (incest, cheating on spouses, beastiality, etc) and will actively revolt against others (pedophilia, rape) and thereby make them bloody but dirty? Nope. We have these wonderful bodies, with all their capacity for pleasure and pain, with the ability to take so much abuse and still function, with lovely pheromones and emotions, and wonderful minds to go with them- why should we be ashamed of finding pleasure in any act? Is biting into a strawberry, tart and sweet, with that silky, studded texture on the tongue, the juice that rolls through the mouth, nourishing and sensual all at once, something to be ashamed of? No? Then why would dragging your tongue over the head of a hard, twitching cock, making yourself and your partner tighten and sigh with enjoyment, any dirtier? Why shouldn't you enjoy the feel of a soft, warm breast in your hands, the nipple puckered and tight against your palms?

Bah. Just because something doesn't get -me- in particular off, why should it be dirty? Whatever blows your skirt up, rocks your boat, whatever makes you happy, as long as it doesn't hurt someone else (unless they want to be hurt, and it's not a dangerous situation)- do it.

Although I still don't get why people would be interested in animals. But hey, I guess there's something for everyone.

 

[Darla_Darling]

There are plenty of stories on Lit of open, loving sex, and they always seem flat and pretty uninteresting to me. I always look for the dirtiness, the sense of transgression.

I agree with you completely. I believe strongly in the idea that sex and death are linked. Sex is the life-force, the antidote to death. Sex isn't only about pleasure, it's about fulfilling our most desperate needs. I am most aroused by the idea that sexual desire is so powerful that it overcomes our higher reasoning, our fears, and all of our other more trifling needs. In that sense, sex can bring one beyond oneself, and be truly transcendant.

I suppose, in answer to your original question, sex is only dirty when it involves doing something dangerous, self-destructive or humiliating because of an overwhelming, harmful desire, and that's what clicks my switch.

 

[Recidiva]

To me it isn't dirty.

To me it's an expression mostly of your bodies connecting first. The way someone looks, smells, moves...lust. Approval, hunger, desire. This is positive. Happens somewhere in my brain I don't know about and can't control. And that can be scary, or it can be a rush. Blame the amygdala, chemistry, symmetry and preference for wanting to hump someone on first sight.

But then heads get in the way with judging it, and instead of approving of how your body reacts to someone, you're embarrassed by it, or humiliated by it.

If you're not embarrassed or humiliated by being sexually attracted to someone, and if you can express it without it becoming frustrated and twisted, it doesn't have to be dirty unless you want it to.

Then there's rape, where only one person is expressing lust, and that's different.

But two people expressing lust in tandem, that's great.

 

[neonlyte]

Dirty Sex is sex you think about, it is not the sex that you do.

Dirty Sex mentioned in the context of having sex, as Lou cites, is used to excite, not because you implicitly believe the act you are both (or singly) engaged in is 'dirty'. No sex between people engaged in sex is 'dirty', but the IDEA that it might be considered by others to be 'dirty' can excite and produce a stronger response.

Incest is culturally regarded as 'dirty' - I would imagine 99%, if not more, of incest readers at Lit have never been involved in a physical incestuous relationship - yet the idea is 'dirty', exciting, and helps serve a sexual function.

You can move to the extremes of sexual behaviour, golden, scat, animals, where the act itself would be described as 'dirty' by a majority of the populous, it might even be 'dirty' to those performing these acts, but I suspect that is not why participants perform those acts, more likely it some stray event in their earlier life that caused a sexual response and linkage; gratification comes in a multitude of forms.

As to why some stories are more 'dirty' than others, they simply appeal to an individuals prediliction, often something they are tempted toward but would never dream of doing. Thus it bcomes an 'obscene or dirty' act mentally, a taboo, something you might want to get exciited by but not to participate in. Straight sex stories thus become boring by definition. Remember the first sexual words you read? More than likely straight sex because you hadn't discovered the 'dirty' stuff, did that get you off and encourage you to explore further?

Sex is all in the mind, straight sex can be fucking amazing in the right mind set, but it is what the majority do, it is the norm, trying to put into words straight sex that has the ability to stir a reader of sexual material is a significant challenge. It's easier to do anal 'cos we all know it's 'dirty'.

 

[Recidiva]

Sex is all in the mind, straight sex can be fucking amazing in the right mind set.

I neonlyte.

 

[Aurora Black]

The thrill of connecting with another person in such an intense and invasive way. Allowing him/her to enter your personal space. The meshing of flesh and the mingling of sweat and other fluids.

When I posted the above, I meant to list some reasons why sex is feared by those who have trust issues. This isn't about me, because with the exception of incest, rape, animals, latex or water (and solid) sports, I don't think sex is dirty. We are sexual beings and it's natural.

 

[Guest]

Yes, yes! This comes close to what I've been thinking too. Sex is dirty and dangerous because there's a surrender of control. Our pleasure makes us victims to our lovers.

The idea of being fingered, or of getting a handjob, say, is much dirtier and sexier than normal coital sex, and I think it has to do with our helplessness in our own pleasure, our loss of control.

One of the dirtiest scenes I've written lately involved a man torn about having sex with a younger girl. He wanted her, yet he didn't want to "ruin" her, so he just rubbed his cock against her panties till he came on her stomach. I was trying to to figure out why I found that so sexy and I realized it was his helplessness to control himself, the tension between doing it and not doing it.

Had he just screwed her, it wouldn't have been half as dirty or as powerful.

Exactly so! In my mind, what you described there is a very dirty and sexy act - and not only for the guy. I can imagine the girl would have found it very dirty indeed, not to mention frustrating (maybe another reason why it's a dirty act).

It is very much about power and control, and giving in to our most intimate and animalistic desires.


Now, to those of you in this thread who are saying, "I don't think sex is dirty". I think you are missing the point. Completely.

No, loving sex between two individuals isn't, in itself, dirty. BUT, some people (myself very much included) want sex to be dirty, and to feel filthy, so we go out of our way to experiment and find ways to sate those base, animalistic needs.

For example, I know for a fact that if I want a hard dirty fuck, I don't want him to be all "lovey-lovey" and take me to bed... I want him to grab hold of the back of my neck, shove me over (whatever surface is closest - or failing that, for him to tell me to hold my ankles), yank my knickers down - most likely after feeling me up through them first, then hold my hips and force his hard dick into my throbbing, needy cunt.

THAT'S dirty, and it's the best kind of sex (in my opinion).

I want to feel taken, I want to feel used. I want to give up all power and I want control to be taken away from me. When I feel that, I feel filthy, and it feels fucking amazing.

There's many, many more acts, too (loads including sucking off), but I wanna watch the footy in a min, so I have no time.

 

[Recidiva]

Now, to those of you in this thread who are saying, "I don't think sex is dirty". I think you are missing the point. Completely.

No, loving sex between two individuals isn't, in itself, dirty. BUT, some people (myself very much included) want sex to be dirty, and to feel filthy, so we go out of our way to experiment and find ways to sate those base, animalistic needs.

For example, I know for a fact that if I want a hard dirty fuck, I don't want him to be all "lovey-lovey" and take me to bed... I want him to grab hold of the back of my neck, shove me over (whatever surface is closest - or failing that, for him to tell me to hold my ankles), yank my knickers down - most likely after feeling me up through them first, then hold my hips and force his hard dick into my throbbing, needy cunt.

THAT'S dirty, and it's the best kind of sex (in my opinion).

I want to feel taken, I want to feel used. I want to give up all power and I want control to be taken away from me. When I feel that, I feel filthy, and it feels fucking amazing.

There's many, many more acts, too (loads including sucking off), but I wanna watch the footy in a min, so I have no time.

That's fine. I just don't see why you have to think that's dirty. Sounds like a fun time to me.

It's when you want it, and you can't ask for it, but you rely on someone else to be the bad guy, be the honest or sick one, that it turns dirty in my mind.

+++

I want to feel taken, I want to feel used. I want to give up all power and I want control to be taken away from me. When I feel that, I feel filthy, and it feels fucking amazing

+++

My edit of this would be:

I want to feel taken, I want to feel used. I want to give up all power and I want control to be taken away from me.

Then I want him to feel taken, I want him to feel used. I want him to give up all power and I want to take control away from him.

Even. Good. Fucking amazing.

 

[Guest]

That's fine. I just don't see why you have to think that's dirty. Sounds like a fun time to me.

It's when you want it, and you can't ask for it, but you rely on someone else to be the bad guy, be the honest or sick one, that it turns dirty in my mind.

+++

I want to feel taken, I want to feel used. I want to give up all power and I want control to be taken away from me. When I feel that, I feel filthy, and it feels fucking amazing

+++

My edit of this would be:

I want to feel taken, I want to feel used. I want to give up all power and I want control to be taken away from me.

Then I want him to feel taken, I want him to feel used. I want him to give up all power and I want to take control away from him.

Even. Good. Fucking amazing.

But why are you arguing this with me?

Why is it a problem to you that I find it dirty.

I WANT it to be dirty and I WANT to call it dirty. You might have a problem with that concept. I don't.

Yes, that's YOUR edit, for you. I was saying how it is for ME.

We're all different, just don't try to persuade me to conform. I never will.

 

[Recidiva]

But why are you arguing this with me?

Why is it a problem to you that I find it dirty.

I WANT it to be dirty and I WANT to call it dirty. You might have a problem with that concept. I don't.

Yes, that's YOUR edit, for you. I was saying how it is for ME.

We're all different, just don't try to persuade me to conform. I never will.

I'm not arguing, you were just saying that *I* missed the point

I totally get this. I don't think it can be separated out for a lot of people. They want to feel dirty.

But to me it's a specific turn on. I wouldn't call it a fetish, but I would call it a specific preference.

I like shameless, I like honest. I'm not asking you to conform, for me it's practically separate genders. I'm not trying to sleep with you or change you. We're not missing the point and it's not scared or anything. It's just shameless.

There's shamesexual and shamelesssexual. I'm just not into it, but I've had it explained to me in detail enough that I get it. Same as I know there are gay men here and I get the mechanics. I don't have the right equipment for it (brain) and that's not the way I swing.

 

[Aurora Black]

Le sigh. Let's not fight, please.

 

[Recidiva]

Le sigh. Let's not fight, please.

Don't tell me what to do, bitch!

 

[Guest]

Don't tell me what to do, bitch!

OK - it hurts when you spit take hot coffee.

 

[Recidiva]

OK - it hurts when you spit take hot coffee.

I said it wasn't my preference. Didn't say I couldn't do it

 

[Aurora Black]

Don't tell me what to do, bitch!

You really need chocolate, don't you?

 

[Pure]

it's dirty because of all those fluids, doc! remember the list of 'fluid' works we came up with-- some of the staples of sex writing and sexual imagination. and to such a list the sadomasochist would 'blood.' and if one of those fluids is not disgusting to begin with, give it a few mins or hours....

here is a scene i remember from a movie: in a j.o. scene, a young woman receives the man's semen into her hand. cupping her hand, she keeps it there for a few moments. then she dips the fingers of her other hand, into the goo and pulls up a kind of drippy string of it--and the look on her face is dispassioniate, mildly curious, you know, like a kid playing with a jar of Elmer's White Glue. that dispassion gives the scene its punch.

on this topic, i believe it was Augustine who said, 'we are all born between [the passages for] piss and shit.'

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

What makes sex dirty and exciting?

--Zoot

I think its "dirty" and "exciting" for the same reasons that recreational drugs, fast cars, extreme sports, favorite foods, and whatnot are (to varying degrees of both categories, of course)...

...because it's primal, a loss of willpower, and very physical and tangible. None of those are analytic experiences, all touch on something instinctually physical or chemically inducing--such is a deviation from Rational Man.

Just my thoughts on it, anyway.