Why does anyone NEED an assault rifle?

[todski28]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/25/knife-and-gun-rises-sharply-in-england-and-wales

Immigration......

 

[KimGordon67]

*shrug* not always needed.

You do live in a relatively isolated/controlled environment that is far more peaceful than most places.

Your country and Japan are the only two I've ever felt kinda comfortable being unarmed in, that's because it's just statistically so unlikely.

Most places aren't that secure or safe.

Sure as hell not the USA.

I think both of our viewpoints are valid in their context.

Which is why i chalk our differences up to cultural....if I had grown up in your shoes, I might easily see things your way.

Just as if you had grown up in a violent area or just lead a really violence saturated life like myself, you might see things differently.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I'd like to see some evidence of that. I highly doubt it.

it's not about homicides for self-defense. The question is how many lives are proven saved because the victim had a gun vs. how many people die from guns in the home, which includes accidents, suicides, murders, and mass shooters like Adam Lanza. I'm willing to bet it's not even close.

Safety precautions are good, but just not having a goddamned gun in the house is better.

Ladders and pools = whataboutism.

You do know that figure for self-defense is well above 200,000 and that figure came from an anti-gun control group. Mike the Gun guy the scumbag who sold guns for decades who now changed his mind who now writes for the Huffing and Puffing Post neglected that in his article. He just noted the number of self-defense homicides which aren't that high actually meaning most people who use a gun in self-defense don't kill anyone. The figure is also much higher than accidents and suicides. Keep up with the narrative though.

Now as to accidents those can be brought down with safety courses and some sane regulations for storage. Not that you actually care about their those kids. The odds of someone getting hurt or killed in the home increase greatly if you have a step ladder or a pool in your home. We approach preventing those deaths in a logical sane manner, not an emotional one.

 

[gunthernehmen]

See? That's what I'm talking about.

Orgasms lead to happy people and happy people don't kill each other!

 

[todski28]

I'd like to see some evidence of that. I highly doubt it.

it's not about homicides for self-defense. The question is how many lives are proven saved because the victim had a gun vs. how many people die from guns in the home, which includes accidents, suicides, murders, and mass shooters like Adam Lanza. I'm willing to bet it's not even close.

Safety precautions are good, but just not having a goddamned gun in the house is better.

Ladders and pools = whataboutism.

Suicides is a moot point if someone wants out they're going one way or another.

 

[Blue]

That chart is PER 1million. That equalizes it for population.

Show me your stats to prove it wrong. We'll do THIS circle again so you can bury the question under a couple more pages and not answer it.

??
The fact that its per capita is the basis of the argument.
The us has a drastically higher homicide rate than Norway per capita, therefore if they had the same amount of deaths due to mass shootings the rate would still be lower in the US. Even though you have way more mass shootings and deaths from them than in Norway, the deaths make up a smaller amount of homicides than in Norway because other crime kill more people way, way, way more frequently, per capita.

 

[Blue]

This debate is overall about whether or not higher gun proliferation leads to more or less safety. That's not a cultural issue, that's a directly testable hypothesis regardless of which side you take. And the data shows that yes, the homicide rate in any given country is directly tied to large gun proliferation and especially loose restrictions on their acquisition. It's not actually a debatable issue. You do live in a more dangerous country because of loose gun laws.

If you want to say "well we should accept that we live in a society that is X amount more dangerous because of loose gun laws than without because I feel that's an acceptable price for the freedom to have (insert your personal model of gun regulation here)" then fine, personally I think that's silly and we can go from there, but at least we can get past this nonsense of MyI and others trying to debate the facts of reality because they don't fit the NRA indoctrination.

 

[KimGordon67]

See? That's what I'm talking about.

Orgasms lead to happy people and happy people don't kill each other!

LOL - you're even more off-base there. I'm sure B-Boy is laughing at that just as much as I am.

 

[KimGordon67]

Suicides is a moot point if someone wants out they're going one way or another.

Actually, I read some pretty convincing research a while back that suggested that presence of a gun in the house does increase the likelihood that someone with suicidal ideation will actually kill themselves. However, I'm pretty agnostic on the suicide issue.

 

[My I]

??
The fact that its per capita is the basis of the argument.
The us has a drastically higher homicide rate than Norway per capita, therefore if they had the same amount of deaths due to mass shootings the rate would still be lower in the US. Even though you have way more mass shootings and deaths from them than in Norway, the deaths make up a smaller amount of homicides than in Norway because other crime kill more people way, way, way more frequently, per capita.

That's great! Now we've come full circle again. So now just answer the original fucking question.

 

[Hypoxia]

The more firearms in a jurisdiction, the more homicides. Is that too tricky?

 

[todski28]

Actually, I read some pretty convincing research a while back that suggested that presence of a gun in the house does increase the likelihood that someone with suicidal ideation will actually kill themselves. However, I'm pretty agnostic on the suicide issue.

Lol I just read somwthing similar...... ahh the joys

 

[todski28]

The more firearms in a jurisdiction, the more homicides. Is that too tricky?

Texas?

 

[Hypoxia]

Texas?

I imagine shooting rates differ between El Paso and Ft Worth. But let's look at states. Firearm death rates in the United States by state shows Texas better than surrounding states (without knowing ownership rates) or Alaska (the worst by far), but worse than Hawaii, Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Jersey, New Hampshire, Minnesota, California, and ten other states. Yes, you're safer in CA than TX. Go figure.

 

[oggbashan]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/25/knife-and-gun-rises-sharply-in-england-and-wales

It is irrelevant to the discussion about guns in the US.

The reasons for the increase in England and Wales are complex but some are:

Gang turf wars
Drug dealing disputes
Reduction in 'Stop and Search'

AND

Increased and better recording of offences

The UK government will be introducing a proposal in Parliament later this year to make the laws and punishment for violent crime more effective. When will US lawmakers act?

If you compare the murder rates by all methods in England and Wales with the USA, most US people would be far happier with the England and Wales statistics.

Deaths by 100,000 of population in England and Wales by any gun are much lower than in the US.

 

[My I]

It is irrelevant to the discussion about guns in the US.

The reasons for the increase in England and Wales are complex but some are:

Gang turf wars
Drug dealing disputes
Reduction in 'Stop and Search'

AND

Increased and better recording of offences

The UK government will be introducing a proposal in Parliament later this year to make the laws and punishment for violent crime more effective. When will US lawmakers act?

If you compare the murder rates by all methods in England and Wales with the USA, most US people would be far happier with the England and Wales statistics.

Deaths by 100,000 of population in England and Wales by any gun are much lower than in the US.

Same reasons as the US. Bloods, Crips, MS-13(immigrants) and a host of others and mostly dealing drugs.

When will the US gov act? As soon as liberals stop blaming guns and deal with the real problems. As it is, law enforcement can't infringe on the gangsta's rights.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Beside the point. We're talking death from having a gun in the house. I count suicide among those deaths.

Suicides is a moot point if someone wants out they're going one way or another.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Safety precautions are good, but just not having a goddamned gun in the house is better.

Wrong.

Having dozens of guns in the house is better.

Ladders and pools = whataboutism.

Doesn't make it wrong.

This debate is overall about whether or not higher gun proliferation leads to more or less safety.

At large or the specific sub-conversation in this thread?

 

[gunthernehmen]

Beside the point. We're talking death from having a gun in the house. I count suicide among those deaths.

Right. That's the only manner anyone ever commits suicide, so that makes sense...

You know. To a gun grabber...

 

[My I]

Let's put another myth to rest.

More guns equal more Crime?

No. This from the FBI's own website:

Crime in the US, 1992-2011

"Violent crime" is down 51% (386.6/757.7). Despite a population growth of more than 55 Million and increasing legal gun sales. Currently 22% of first time purchasers are women.

http://cdn.aliengearholsters.com/media/wysiwyg/atf-gun-sales-statistics.jpg

http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/999z-mpdxusifn-unxc5pq.gif

So if more guns equal more crimes how do we have less crime in the US over a 20 yr period with increasing gun sales?

 

[phrodeau]

Right. That's the only manner anyone ever commits suicide, so that makes sense...

You know. To a gun grabber...

Commits, pretty close. Many attempted suicides fail, but those attempted with a gun usually succeed.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

"The only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys," and now the number and size of their gunz.

Skimming through this thread I've noticed that most of the gun rights posters quickly get frustrated with a debate and resort to name calling and fabrications. Just like fascism, when your ideas fail, you resort to violence.

Somewhere in this thread I saw someone claim that gun ownership was a human right and that that belief was supported by the US constitution. That was one of the funniest things I read on this thread. Food, water and air are human rights. Gunz are tools.

 

[KimGordon67]

Let's put another myth to rest.

More guns equal more Crime?

No. This from the FBI's own website:

Crime in the US, 1992-2011

"Violent crime" is down 51% (386.6/757.7). Despite a population growth of more than 55 Million and increasing legal gun sales. Currently 22% of first time purchasers are women.

http://cdn.aliengearholsters.com/media/wysiwyg/atf-gun-sales-statistics.jpg

http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/999z-mpdxusifn-unxc5pq.gif

So if more guns equal more crimes how do we have less crime in the US over a 20 yr period with increasing gun sales?

You just introduced a completely different point to the argument - who in here at any point said more guns = more crime? You're really terrible at keeping on point, and at following through on the thread of a discussion, and at responding to questions that are asked of you directly ... do you have some problem with your attention span?

 

[My I]

You just introduced a completely different point to the argument - who in here at any point said more guns = more crime? You're really terrible at keeping on point, and at following through on the thread of a discussion, and at responding to questions that are asked of you directly ... do you have some problem with your attention span?

First of all that has been stated several times over 45+ pages here.

Second, I have asked more than 20 times for an answer to the two basic questions posed in the original post and YOU avoid them like the plague by diverting the subject until my questions are buried on the last page. So why don't YOU stay on subject?

Thirdly who said I was responding to you? Did I quote you? Are you the only person in this conversation?

 

[Carnal_Flower]

It's almost as if they feel their manhood is being taken away.

"The only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys," and now the number and size of their gunz.

Skimming through this thread I've noticed that most of the gun rights posters quickly get frustrated with a debate and resort to name calling and fabrications. Just like fascism, when your ideas fail, you resort to violence.
.