Why are some rape stories allowed, some arent?

[Boxlicker101]

It certainly answers my definition of rape. Until this very thread, I had a difficult time featuring rape fantasies at all, because of that kind of image.

I felt there had to be some kind of pathology to get off on rape. Stark, box. Grisly. If there is going to be a line, let's put it this side of that story, I guess. It would ill bespeak our little community if a section of the writing here consistently held stories of that kind. It would be creepy to think a lot of people loved to read them.

So tell me, o ancient one of lit., would that story have been put in "Extreme," back when there was such a section?''

cantdog

I have to agree that it was over the line. I don't even like reading stories like that, let alone writing them. I actually felt rather queasy about it.

I don't remember reading any "Extreme" stories but I am sure it would have fit in there.

What do you mean by "Ancient one of Lit" I have only been here for a little over a year.

 

[cantdog]

If you remember "Extreme," you're ancient enough to have the information I wanted. I never saw an Extreme section at all, it was already gone when I got here. But if you never looked into it, I guess your ancient-ness isn't gonna help me with my question.

Sorry if it weirded you out to be called ancient, I was being flippant, in the same breath as asking about the past from someone with more history here.

Not a bad thought in the world went with the epithet, I assure you.

cantdog

 

[Pure]

As a somewhat ancient one, and previous reader of 'extreme'...

Box's story, so called, would likely have gone there for the content; but most were well written, so then, as now, it would likely be rejected for crappy writing.

Box: I don't even like reading stories like that, let alone writing them. I actually felt rather queasy about it.

Yeah.

And you posted it to advance science and further legal discourse in the US.

 

[cantdog]

It is more of a nightmare than a story.

Testy! Have a bagel or something.

 

[angela146]

Actually, I think Box's story has a place among our collection of literature (and this thread is that place). Although, for reasons I will cite in a moment, I do not argue with it's exclusion from the posted stories.

When we talk about rape or rape fantasy in their milder forms, we sometimes allow ourselves to forget the brutality that is at the heart of rape.

This story's brutality is not over-the-top. It is real. That's the way rape is (sometimes). That is the way rape is often experienced by those where are it's victims.

Given that the story had a fair warning, I have no problem with it. It does what the best stories do: it takes us to a place that we have never been (and, in this case, a place we might have no desire to ever visit again, even in our worst mightmares).

However, I also recognize and respect the editorial choices that are made here at Literotica. The rejection of any story needs no justification other than "Laurel didn't like it".

 

[Guest]

If you remember "Extreme," you're ancient enough to have the information I wanted. I never saw an Extreme section at all, it was already gone when I got here. But if you never looked into it, I guess your ancient-ness isn't gonna help me with my question.

Sorry if it weirded you out to be called ancient, I was being flippant, in the same breath as asking about the past from someone with more history here.

Not a bad thought in the world went with the epithet, I assure you.

cantdog

By "Ancient One" I was assuming you meant Weird Harold. He has longevity and much wisdom (and his own tagline under his AV pic is "opinionated old fart."

Look for him on the How to Board. He also can be found on many of the "Test Your Posting Here!" threads.

He's a very nice gentleman and he does have many helpful answers.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

It certainly answers my definition of rape. Until this very thread, I had a difficult time featuring rape fantasies at all, because of that kind of image.

I felt there had to be some kind of pathology to get off on rape. Stark, box. Grisly. If there is going to be a line, let's put it this side of that story, I guess. It would ill bespeak our little community if a section of the writing here consistently held stories of that kind. It would be creepy to think a lot of people loved to read them.

So tell me, o ancient one of lit., would that story have been put in "Extreme," back when there was such a section?''

cantdog

Extreme was really extreme stuff. Bestiality, hard core rape/violence, I believe underage as well. While the majority of the writing in extreme was your basic beat off bookshelf stuff, there were a few very good writers who posted things there occasionally.

I never submitted or wrote anything that would come close to qualifying for the cat, so I don't know what (if any) submission fuidlines there were.

-Colly

 

[Guest]

As a somewhat ancient one, and previous reader of 'extreme'...

Box's story, so called, would likely have gone there for the content; but most were well written, so then, as now, it would likely be rejected for crappy writing.

Box: I don't even like reading stories like that, let alone writing them. I actually felt rather queasy about it.

Yeah.

And you posted it to advance science and further legal discourse in the US.

Well, ouch!

More mean words from a shit-stirrer!



Sometimes the writer has no choice but to write those kinds of things.

I have many stories swirling around in my head all the time and all at the same time. Schedule permitting, I can write for hours, sometimes switching back and forth between half-finished stories. (I think most people who write are that way.)

However, once in awhile a story will grab me and force me to put pen to paper. (Not long ago I got up in the middle of the night to write because instead of sleeping I was wording the first several paragraphs of a story, over and over.)

At this moment, I am in the middle of a horrible rape story. It's dark, it's awful, it's terrible, and I hate it. But I have no choice but to finish it.

Emotionally I am dealing with grief, so this is a direct result of that. And a brilliant author (Hello Colly!) told me that until I get this out of my system, it may be difficult to write in my own typical style. And she was correct.

I can't seem to write anything until I finish this damn story. It is probably too extreme to submit to Lit, but that's OK. I just need to get it out of me into computer and then onto paper. Then I can breathe (after I stuff it the papers under a rock somewhere).

Does that make sense? I hardly think Box is going around wondering when he can trap his next male victim, nor am I wondering how many teeth the average girl on the street should lose before a rapist has finished brutalizing her.

It's just fiction.

 

[Boxlicker101]

As a somewhat ancient one, and previous reader of 'extreme'...

Box's story, so called, would likely have gone there for the content; but most were well written, so then, as now, it would likely be rejected for crappy writing.

Box: I don't even like reading stories like that, let alone writing them. I actually felt rather queasy about it.

Yeah.

And you posted it to advance science and further legal discourse in the US.

Actually, I did. That is, I posted it to further discourse on this thread as an extreme example of rape. I don't know if you would call that "legal discourse" or not and it is certainly not limited to the US.

When I was addressed as "Ancient One" I wondered if it was a reference to my age, which is ancient, compared to most of the persons in this forum.

 

[Pure]

Angela on Box's posted story:

This story's brutality is not over-the-top. It is real. That's the way rape is (sometimes). That is the way rape is often experienced by those where are it's victims.

Given that the story had a fair warning, I have no problem with it. It does what the best stories do: it takes us to a place that we have never been (and, in this case, a place we might have no desire to ever visit again, even in our worst mightmares).

However, I also recognize and respect the editorial choices that are made here at Literotica. The rejection of any story needs no justification other than "Laurel didn't like it".

Hi Angela,

I think there should be places where any story can be posted, unless it contains directions for suitcase atomic-bomb making.
This is roughly the case with asstr.

Since this thread was (originally) about what, if any, Lit's policy was, I'm not sure you have described the situation well.

If I read you correctly, you seem, possibly, to suggest that the Box story was found 'over the top' in brutality; and/or that its quality of _taking someone to a place they might never want to go again_ was not appreciated.

Or maybe you're saying it was arbitrarily struck down for no reason we'll ever know.

In any case, you seem to neglect the issue of violent posted stories. An example in the ballpark with Box's is:

brutal vernacci, by vicdamize

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=21812

And other url's of violent stories have been posted, some in 'nonconsent,' a few in bdsm.

What I was suggesting, perhaps a little testily, is that, since lots of violence gets through, it may have been the quality of B's handling of it that was the issue. In your phrase, vic's story, imo 'takes a reader somewhere' that B's does not. And it's more brutal.

Best,
J.

 

[BlackSnake]

I submitted one where a family is held by thugs and beats the crap out of one young man demanding that the other have sex with his mother.

But the real issue is, after 2 weeks I have 5 submissions just 'pending' including this one which is moving towards, I think a third week. What's the deal?

 

[Guest]

I submitted one where a family is held by thugs and beats the crap out of one young man demanding that the other have sex with his mother.

But the real issue is, after 2 weeks I have 5 submissions just 'pending' including this one which is moving towards, I think a third week. What's the deal?

There is a back-log right now. Don't stress (yet!)

The 3-5 days of submission acceptance time has translated into 2 weeks and then some.

You can always PM Laurel -

 

[cantdog]

I submitted one where a family is held by thugs and beats the crap out of one young man demanding that the other have sex with his mother.

But the real issue is, after 2 weeks I have 5 submissions just 'pending' including this one which is moving towards, I think a third week. What's the deal?

I read that story, and it was not as, well, pointless, as Box's. Box's story just doesn't go anywhere. It really needs to be embedded in a larger story to have anything to say about anything.

I believe if we followed the avenging roommate or mom or someone who tracks down the Hobos from Heck in chapter two and is gutted and crawled into for warmth, or perhaps serves them with a summons in chapter 3, then at least the story would serve as motivation for the mom and background on the surviving characters.

Yours had everyone get away but one who was captive, and the plot was ready to move on to the next chapter.

But byu itself it too would have been pointless.

 

[cantdog]

Sorry, I was interrupted by the real world.

So that, I was about to say, perhaps it was rejected merely for being gratuitous and also violent, not for setting new lows on violence. Clearly, some of the links Pure posted have it beat, rather, and seem to take immense delight in it.

But we've already agreed that the line will waver, since the standards are subjective. I don't believe you can take the most torture-filled story as representing that line, either, since other factors, such as how little else may be going on, or how awful the writing is, or whether the sentences parse, might also be operating.

cantdog

 

[Boxlicker101]

I read that story, and it was not as, well, pointless, as Box's. Box's story just doesn't go anywhere. It really needs to be embedded in a larger story to have anything to say about anything.

I believe if we followed the avenging roommate or mom or someone who tracks down the Hobos from Heck in chapter two and is gutted and crawled into for warmth, or perhaps serves them with a summons in chapter 3, then at least the story would serve as motivation for the mom and background on the surviving characters.

Yours had everyone get away but one who was captive, and the plot was ready to move on to the next chapter.

But byu itself it too would have been pointless.

If the first one had been acceptred, there would have been a sequel in which the hobos would have been arrested, convicted and hanged. The sequel would have been just as cold-blooded, in a way, as the first story.

 

[cantdog]

By "Ancient One" I was assuming you meant Weird Harold. He has longevity and much wisdom (and his own tagline under his AV pic is "opinionated old fart."

Look for him on the How to Board. He also can be found on many of the "Test Your Posting Here!" threads.

He's a very nice gentleman and he does have many helpful answers.

I know; I like his style. The dude is all right.

 

[Pure]

Cheers to Weird Harold as fount of knowledge; a polite and helpful person.

But as to which rape stories see the light of day at literotica, does anyone *who reads them* (e.g., posted examples) believe there's a clear set of rules or policy?

That may not be bad, of course. Chaos may favor creative outlet
(besides trash).

 

[cantdog]

Well, Pure, I have more data. I don't know what to make of it, though.

My date rape scene was rejected. I thought it might be because it is as pointless as Box's was, all by itself.

But nope. It was rejected because there was an underage person or persons in a sexual relationship in it.

Oh well.

The scene is here.

The underage people were on the grass watching and then accompanied the victim to her car and discussed what they'd seen.

Where's the sexual relationship?
Is it the discussion?

cantdog

 

[Pure]

silly guy, 'cant', underage people *watching* adults do it, is a no-no. (the discussion just makes it worse.)

the rule is that underaged persons must not be *involved* in (part of the scene of) sexual activities and situations.

clearly the rapelike events in the story didn't have anything to do with its rejection.

also, I can't quite tell, but you seemingly put the kids front and center. had you slipped in a line, "There were being watched by some kids on the hillside." that might have gotten through, imo.

 

[Tanuki]

Is the author obligated to make sure every character is over 18? "Jeanie, who just turned 18, yadda yadda"

Or is it only a problem if you specifically mention that a character is underage?

What happened to this being a free country?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Is the author obligated to make sure every character is over 18? "Jeanie, who just turned 18, yadda yadda"

Or is it only a problem if you specifically mention that a character is underage?

What happened to this being a free country?

I don't think you have to specify a person's age but if you mention something that might indicate age, you should mention that the character is 18 or older. A story about a high school student and a teacher should mention that the student is 18 years old. In an incest story involving parent and offspring, you should say something to indicate the offspring is at least 18. In dialogue, you can include something like, "Do you remember your eighteenth birthday last year?"

It is a free country. Laurel is free to accept whatever stories she wants and she chooses to make this requirement, which is her right.

 

[cantdog]

What a pisser, I got six chapters of this thing roughed out. Nancy confesses tearily in a meeting, another victim puts up warning posters about Dean and gets sued, the man who made the posters, a substitute teacher, believes that the death of John Svoboda may have been Dean killing him and he starts an investigation. Fuck. Dean weasels out of responsibility for killing the kid because his dad cleans up the blood and exerts influence on the police and the bench. Shit!!

Down the shitter. Underage sex, my ass.

[Okay, into the trunk with you. One day I'll bring you out and we'll see what happens, me proud beauty.]

Back to rape, then. Where the line is, hah! Yes. Well, fragly my dear, who gives a fuck?

cantdog

http://no-troy.planetaclix.pt/images/mexico.gif

 

[Pure]

cant, don't despair.

the underage thing has been kicked around for a while in many threads. send the story elsewhere, but write it.

the teen sex thing, likewise.

if you've ever read the law, the same problems come up in defining sex crimes with kids; it starts off very logical, as in rape and assault, then, plausibly, moves to touching. Then the connections get a bit less obvious, such as use of objects, and watching or witnessing.

it ends up that if you accidently left the bedroom door ajar and little Johnny peeked in, you'd be guilty of a sex crime against the child.

the same process occurs in defining what 'underage sex' in stories, means; it can mean, as you report, *presence of 17 year olds at adult sexual encounters.

there was one 'child porn' case involving a pic of a mom holding a naked little girl.

 

[cantdog]

already over it

A police procedural porn story. There'll never be a market for it.

But it's fun to write. Maybe I can leave out the scene in the county fair itself. It's covered, I think. I'll have to keep the boy alive through the first revenge attack to have him explain to the teacher. Songo, why he was jumped. Then Nancy confesses in the meeting. Between the two the story is there.

I like the scene because it happened to me, but the story doesn't seem to strctly need it. Maybe referring obliquely to the fact that Dean was witnessed will be all right. I'll make the changes and kill the kid later.

Heh.

Watch this space, as the fellow says...

cantdog

 

[Pure]

you're onto something, can't.

with a little ingenuity, most stories without explict sex with 5 year olds, can be posted; assuming warnings, correct categorization.

as you've done, the author just needs to get past his foul mood and anger, and put his/her mind to getting 'up.'