Who says there is no GOOD news?

[ABSTRUSE]

Soldier funeral protester arrested


OMAHA, Neb. - A member of the Kansas group that has drawn criticism for protesting at soldiers' funerals has been arrested for letting her 10-year-old son stomp on a U.S. flag during a demonstration. She promised Wednesday to challenge the state's flag desecration law in court.

Shirley Phelps-Roper, 49, will be charged with flag mutilation, disturbing the peace and contributing to the delinquency of a minor, Sarpy County Attorney Lee Polikov said Wednesday.

Phelps-Roper, a member of the Westboro Baptist Church, acknowledged that she allowed her son Jonah to stand on the flag Tuesday — something she says is protected by the U.S. Constitution.

"It's utter nonsense," said Phelps-Roper, a lawyer. "I don't know what else to tell you other than that we'll see them in federal court."

Phelps-Roper is a daughter of Westboro's founder, the Rev. Fred Phelps. Members have protested at more than 280 military funerals in 43 states since June 2005, she said.

The group says the deaths of U.S. soldiers are God's punishment for a nation that harbors gays and lesbians. Nebraska and 37 other states have laws restricting how close protesters can get to funerals, inspired at least in part by the Westboro protests.

Tuesday's funeral in suburban Bellevue was for Nebraska Army National Guard Spc. William "Bill" Bailey, who was killed May 25 when an explosive device struck his vehicle in Iraq.

Phelps-Roper was arrested because she was involved in a potentially volatile situation in the presence of Bailey's friends, relatives and fellow soldiers, Polikov said. Bellevue has a strong military presence, with Offutt Air Force Base located at the south edge of town.

"To come into that environment and communicate what I would call fighting words — provocative language and acts — you can't do that," Polikov said. "You might illicit a violent response. That's against community peace and community law."

Phelps-Roper was arrested about an hour before Bailey's funeral when an officer observed the boy stomping on the flag, Bellevue Police Capt. Herb Evers said. She was booked and released after posting $150 bail.

Nebraska's flag law says: "A person commits the offense of mutilating a flag if such person intentionally casts contempt or ridicule upon a flag by mutilating, defacing, defiling, burning, or trampling upon such flag."

Flag mutilation and disturbing the peace are each punishable by 90 days in jail, a $500 fine or both. Contributing to the delinquency of a minor is punishable by a year in jail, a $1,000 fine or both. All three are misdemeanors.

Polikov said he was considering filing a negligent child abuse charge because Phelps-Roper put her son in a dangerous situation.

 

[Liar]

As much as it goes against my principles to have such a moronic law (against flag burning/trampling) in the first place, it feels kind of nice to see it being turned against morons.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

They're protesting funerals because there's gays and lesbians here?

WTF?!

Honestly, let the dead rest in peace and their families mourn as they have the RIGHT to. Sheesh...talk about total selfish morons.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

Thinking about it - I think the families should sue for damages of some sort. Emotional distress or whatever.

 

[Stella_Omega]

They're protesting funerals because there's gays and lesbians here?

WTF?!

Honestly, let the dead rest in peace and their families mourn as they have the RIGHT to. Sheesh...talk about total selfish morons.

There were no gays or lesbians at the funeral.
These people believe that every soldier that dies deserves to because he's protecting a nation that harbours gays...

They will step up to perfectly homophobic macho dudes in uniform and tell them they are fag lovers.

 

[Chantilyvamp]

I seriously believe somebody should slap those people. If they came to any of my families funerals doing that it would happen.

You do not disrespect the dead or the families burying their dead. It is just seriously wrong on so many levels. Not to mention the reason they are doing it is just asinine to begin with.

 

[English Lady]

I watched a programme a couple of months ago with this woman and the "church" they're part of. It was disturbing, really disturbing. I just pray they see sense -you know, the family memberswho leave the "church" are totally cut off from the family -it's as if they aren't family any more -how sad is that?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I seriously believe somebody should slap those people. If they came to any of my families funerals doing that it would happen.

You do not disrespect the dead or the families burying their dead. It is just seriously wrong on so many levels. Not to mention the reason they are doing it is just asinine to begin with.

Well, they do point up the insanity of intolerance. And they have precipitated violence in the past-- and been fined, and jailed, and spat upon, and what have you. But they are psychotic, and their psychosis is self-perpetuating.

They are just lucky that, so far, no one has slapped them with an M-16.

 

[rgraham666]

Hmm. I should start that story of mine where the Phelps get to meet the deity they actually worship.

 

[Picodiribibi]

Wow, surprising reactions.

Whatever happened to "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" ?

You people ought to be among the first to defend a person's right to free speech. Erotic literature and book burnings go way back, you know...

 

[Dar~]

While the first amendment is in fact alive and well in some places, common courtesy cries out that this is a sacred time. No matter what your personal feelings, it is wrong to do something like that at a funeral. That is a time for saying goodbye and letting go. The person the Phelps's believe deserved to die, is dead. The funeral is for his family not him. Demonstrating was in poor taste. "bill" was already where he was going, be it good or bad. What they did was tasteless and saddens me. I wonder how the Phelps's would feel if someone did some sort of protest at the funeral of one of their dear ones?

 

[English Lady]

Hmm. I should start that story of mine where the Phelps get to meet the deity they actually worship.

I actually said about a million times (I may be exagerating) as hubby and I watcvhd that documentary that I think that they are going to get a nasty surprise on the day they meet their maker.

It's sad, it really is.

 

[FatDino]

Well, the act of burning the U.S. flag is actually protected under the US Constitution. In the case of Texas v. Johnson 1989, the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of Johnson, and decided that 'flag burning' is an act of practicing free speech, and therefore, is protected.

But no matter what, saying soldiers die because they 'deserve it' is wrong, selfish, and insensitive. And t doesn't help when those protestants' argument is based on hatred and close-mindedness.

 

[Dar~]

Well, the act of burning the U.S. flag is actually protected under the US Constitution. In the case of Texas v. Johnson 1989, the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of Johnson, and decided that 'flag burning' is an act of practicing free speech, and therefore, is protected.

Dang, I think I just Came..

 

[FatDino]

Dang, I think I just Came..

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

It was distasteful. And legal. Protected.

 

[Picodiribibi]

While the first amendment is in fact alive and well in some places, common courtesy cries out that this is a sacred time. No matter what your personal feelings, it is wrong to do something like that at a funeral. That is a time for saying goodbye and letting go. The person the Phelps's believe deserved to die, is dead. The funeral is for his family not him. Demonstrating was in poor taste. "bill" was already where he was going, be it good or bad. What they did was tasteless and saddens me. I wonder how the Phelps's would feel if someone did some sort of protest at the funeral of one of their dear ones?

It's your outrage that feeds these people's fire. I'm sure the Phelps' know they're acting inappropriately. They are not interested in tact; they are trying to draw attention to their cause. And succeeding.

Their argument is beneath contempt. Why give it a second thought? Why make this into a First Amendment case? Why give the Phelps' a chance to be vindicated in the courts? Why play into these people's hands?

 

[Dar~]

It's your outrage that feeds these people's fire. I'm sure the Phelps' know they're acting inappropriately. They are not interested in tact; they are trying to draw attention to their cause. And succeeding.

Their argument is beneath contempt. Why give it a second thought? Why make this into a First Amendment case? Why give the Phelps' a chance to be vindicated in the courts? Why play into these people's hands?

Not in the least outraged, nor surprised. people have ceased to surprise me in the way they act. It saddens me because it's wrong, but more so because it just proves how far we have sunk that we can say..."I can disturb this family's mourning, because my right to free speech allows it. I can throw this man's life work to the four winds of my disregard, though he was fighting and dying for a country he believed in, because that same country says it's okay." There are no morals anymore. Nothing is sacred.

Also, (not that you'd care or even understand) My husband is deployed right now. With the United Sates Air Force. It would hurt me immeasurably if he died. That hurt would only be compounded if someone/s came to his funeral to belittle his memory or to call out to my children that their father deserved to die. That his death was just one more meaningless death in a series caused by his love nad compassion for all things. And that they excuse their behavior by blaming it on the Gay community compounds it even more for me, b/c the last 9 months of my life were spent living as a lesbian. Only recently have I come to grips with my Bi-sexuality and the fact that it's okay. This man, my husband, father of two beautiful children fights day in and day out in a thankless job. If these people had showed up and that funeral had been his, I would have killed them. No forethought nothing, cold blooded murder.

 

[FatDino]

It's your outrage that feeds these people's fire. I'm sure the Phelps' know they're acting inappropriately. They are not interested in tact; they are trying to draw attention to their cause. And succeeding.

Their argument is beneath contempt. Why give it a second thought? Why make this into a First Amendment case? Why give the Phelps' a chance to be vindicated in the courts? Why play into these people's hands?

Once upon a time, in a land called the United States of America, a white man claimed some black men and women his property. His act was legit, protected, yet inappropriate.

The reason we went through the Civil Rights movement was because 'someone' gave a second thought to said white man's act.

If they go to court, they may not be charged guilty under the criminal code; but if there's a civil law suit against this, like Jaz suggested, causing emotional distress, I'd like to think those protestants may not win.

 

[rgraham666]

Well, there's rights. And there's courtesy. And courtesy in a case like this should trump rights.

Or to quote Shrek, "Donkey, you have the right to remain silent. You simple lack the ability."

Furthermore, to just shrug at the Phelps' actions and say "Well, they can say and do anything they want as they have that right." would mean we've sunk even lower than them.

 

[matriarch]

Once upon a time, in a land called the United States of America, a white man claimed some black men and women his property. His act was legit, protected, yet inappropriate.

The reason we went through the Civil Rights movement was because 'someone' gave a second thought to said white man's act.

If they go to court, they may not be charged guilty under the criminal code; but if there's a civil law suit against this, like Jaz suggested, causing emotional distress, I'd like to think those protestants may not win.

Well said.

 

[elsol]

*burp*

I'm waiting for the riot.

You know these guys are eventually going to do this at the wrong funeral and free speech or not, there's going to be a throwdown.

 

[Picodiribibi]

Not in the least outraged, nor surprised. people have ceased to surprise me in the way they act. It saddens me because it's wrong, but more so because it just proves how far we have sunk that we can say..."I can disturb this family's mourning, because my right to free speech allows it. I can throw this man's life work to the four winds of my disregard, though he was fighting and dying for a country he believed in, because that same country says it's okay." There are no morals anymore. Nothing is sacred...

If nothing were sacred, this wouldn't touch a nerve. We have protected speech in the U.S. so that we can criticize the government without fear of the government breaking down our door in the middle of the night and carrying us away to an unknown fate. Freedom of Speech doesn't protect us from each other's cruelty--it's not designed to. Laws that keep protesters a "respectful" distance away from funerals are on the books. So are laws that prosecute murderers. I think the justice system, though far from perfect, works pretty darn well.
It's a shame that some people push other people's buttons to further their own agendas. But that's nothing new. If you react violently to such people, you are wrong.

***
Dino, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. If this were a question of civil rights--and now, with the arrest for flag burning, it is--I don't know how you couldn't support the protesters' right to free speech. Are you suggesting legislating compassion?

 

[Dar~]

If nothing were sacred, this wouldn't touch a nerve. We have protected speech in the U.S. so that we can criticize the government without fear of the government breaking down our door in the middle of the night and carrying us away to an unknown fate. Freedom of Speech doesn't protect us from each other's cruelty--it's not designed to. Laws that keep protesters a "respectful" distance away from funerals are on the books. So are laws that prosecute murderers. I think the justice system, though far from perfect, works pretty darn well.
It's a shame that some people push other people's buttons to further their own agendas. But that's nothing new. If you react violently to such people, you are wrong.

***
Dino, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. If this were a question of civil rights--and now, with the arrest for flag burning, it is--I don't know how you couldn't support the protesters' right to free speech. Are you suggesting legislating compassion?

You speak in circles and your thoughts are like so much ubiquitous wind...all I am saying is that people sadden me.

 

[FatDino]

Dino, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. If this were a question of civil rights--and now, with the arrest for flag burning, it is--I don't know how you couldn't support the protesters' right to free speech. Are you suggesting legislating compassion?

Nope, just wanted to point out that "let's just ignore what they're saying because they have the right to say it" was not always a wise option. Second thoughts are there for a reason.