What's wrong with this picture?

[Svenskaflicka]

The point isn't so much whether or not it's wrong to take stuff from the stores, but the way media is calling it STEALING when it's done by a black guy and FINDING when it's done by a white couple.

 

[cloudy]

The point isn't so much whether or not it's wrong to take stuff from the stores, but the way media is calling it STEALING when it's done by a black guy and FINDING when it's done by a white couple.

THANK YOU!

 

[Kassiana]

The point isn't so much whether or not it's wrong to take stuff from the stores

--Sadly, it is on a largely conservative Christian site I visit. There are actual people there saying anyone who takes anything from the stores should be shot.

the way media is calling it STEALING when it's done by a black guy and FINDING when it's done by a white couple.

--That's wrong, too, but I was so shocked by the idiots saying that stealing, even in order to save your own life and the life of your family, was wrong and that you should starve/dehydrate rather than steal, that I talked about it.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

The point is that the reason people in New Orleans have any food or water at all, after three days, is because they broke into stores to get it.

What news agencies say about it doesn't much matter. What is done, does! And it best be done soon.

If you wish to complain about the two different photos and two different terms that two different news agencies used to report what is ultimately the same story, I would suggest contacting some organization like PR Watch. Perhaps enter it as a possible Spin of the Day.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

--Sadly, it is on a largely conservative Christian site I visit. There are actual people there saying anyone who takes anything from the stores should be shot.

A lot of conservative Christians also believe it's a sin to masturbate.

I don't suppose you'd be willing to give me the name and adress of that site..? *hides horns*

 

[Quiet_Cool]

If you wish to complain about the two different photos and two different terms that two different news agencies used to report what is ultimately the same story...

Here's where the question arises. Are the two news affiliates related in some way? Svenskaflicka stated that she "wouldn't call it anything fancier than looting or perhaps even stealing" and Belegon said that he "wouldn't call anyone a looter that was taking food right now." If two seperate people wrote the captions, it leaves the question of whether or not it simply a difference in chosen words, and whether or not race is even an issue.

Q_C

 

[Guest]

The point is that the reason people in New Orleans have any food or water at all, after three days, is because they broke into stores to get it.

What news agencies say about it doesn't much matter. What is done, does! And it best be done soon.

If you wish to complain about the two different photos and two different terms that two different news agencies used to report what is ultimately the same story, I would suggest contacting some organization like PR Watch. Perhaps enter it as a possible Spin of the Day.

OK, I don't know if you're blind or you just don't get it.

In one picture there is a black "looter" in the other picture is a white couple who "found" food in a store.

The point is either both are LOOTERS or both are doing what they need to survive.

Do you need a cluepon to for that?

 

[Remec]

I had the misfortune of watching some of FoxNews last night and saw one of the commentators railing about the looting (while the stock video was showing people in grocery stores taking bottles of juice and other packaged foods) and demanding to know where the police were during all of this. There is some scary stuff going on in the area, but taking loaves of bread and cranberry juice is the least of the police's worries at this point.

Yeah, while a terrible thing, I can't necessarily fault them for grabbing food and such. It's the ones I read about yesterday and the day before who pried open the security gates on boutiques to run off with armloads of clothing, jewelry, and electronics that have no justification for their actions.

I think the police, btw, are more worried about the people who emptied out the gun department of a recently opened Wal-Mart.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

Things are getting bad.

CNN just aired a phone-in interview from a visitor from Maryland, a guest at the Ritz-Carlton, who was trapped there when the airlines shut down before the storm hit.

Even they are running out of supplies (one cookie and a glass of water for breakfast) and their security personnel are afraid to venture outside.

They haven’t seen anybody from FEMA or any National Guard personnel, either.



Quiet-Cool,

When AP called them "looters" I would say they were at least sensationalizing, because you can't tell whether what they are carrying is a package and a garbage bag full of possessions, or loot.

Personally, I would call it a rather obvious case of racial profilling --- "wading while black."

 

[Remec]

If you know that the rising water's going to trash the TV in a matter of minutes, are you justified in taking it? What about after the water's ruined it?

What about those Nike's that the sludgy water's just about spilled into? And who's going to want those pants from the Gap after they've sat in that brew? Silly to let them go to rot.

That reminds me of a picture in this morning's paper. The front page had a dozen little images from all about the Gulf Coast region of reactions and so on. One of them was a photo of a manager from some grocery store (Winn-Dixie maybe) as he was adding to the *5 garbage bins* of frozen food the store was throwing out.

Now, maybe they were worried about the possiblities of some unscrupulous person suing them should they pick up a case of food poisoning or something, but having worked in retail and lived through long term power outages I know that most of that product was still perfectly viable.

Some of it was prolly even still frozen depending on the type of freezer involved and whether anyone had been into them since the power went out.

They could easily have given the stuff to passing neighborhood people or sent it over to the Red Cross or National Guard or someone with instructions to heat this stuff *now* and serve it to people.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

Dranoel,

I get it.

I got it from the time that Cloudy posted the photos.

It’s just that worrying about their terminology is only burying the lead.

The lead is that the only relief New Orleans is receiving is what they are taking!

 

[CharleyH]

Read the little captions next to the pictures, and tell me what the hell's going on here.....please.

http://static.flickr.com/23/38725768_16c66eb58b.jpg

News coverage here isn't so bad. They show the black guys looting a bunch of electromics equipment into their hummer at least. Actually, they also focus on others in the black community and all the efforts they are making to help people.

Though this, Cloudy, reminds me of a beer strike here back in the 80's. Out of all the people coming out of the beer store, somehow the news channels only seemed to see the Native guy with 12 cases.

 

[sweetnpetite]

the truth is, you can't tell what anyone's motives are by looking.

Are they taking six pairs of shoes because they are greedy, or because they are bringing them back to there family?

Are they taking a stereo because they are greedy, or because they are hoping to listen to the news and find out what is going on? Or do they think they can rig up something with the parts to contact help or send out a distress signal or whatever? Maybe they want to play some music to help calm down there young children. ARe they stealing caviar because they are greedy or because the tuna fish was already taken? Maybe they didn't take an obvious staple like peanut butter because they have a deadly allergy. What seems nessesary to one will be luxury to another. In a confused time such as an emergency like this, your not even likely to know what will be a nessesity or to think clearly enough to sort it out. Wouldn't you rather be safe than sorry later? You just can't judge peoples inner intentions based on external observation.

This really isn't a time we should be judging anyway. we should be conserned with bigger problems than some guy making off with flood damaged shoes or electronics (weather they need it or not). I just can't believe what a major focus the looting *or whatever you choose to call it* has become in the news.

People have lost there homes and all of there posessions. And we are worried that they might take off with soggy bread or water damaged electronics. Maybe it's 'wrong' for them to take those things. Maybe it's wrong that *everything* has been taken from them!!!

Who even knows how they would act in a situation like this?

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

The only valid complaint about looters is when they use guns.

And the only valid complaint against what was taken (for whatever reason) is about the guns taken from the Mallwart Store, and others.

But, since everybody already knows my attitude about available weapons improving the safety of endangered citizens, I was trying not to mention it.

Sorry.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

Lost In The Flood
Why no mention of race or class in TV's Katrina coverage?
By Jack Shafer

 

[cuninglinguist61]

The point isn't so much whether or not it's wrong to take stuff from the stores, but the way media is calling it STEALING when it's done by a black guy and FINDING when it's done by a white couple.

Keep in mind that the top pic was labeled "AP", while the bottom one is labeled "AFP", which, as I've heard is the French news agency.

I'm not justifying, just expaining. Maybe something was lost in the translation ?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Any of the supplies that are taken as a legitimate need for survival, shouldn't need to be paid for.

They will be unusable before their owners' can salvage them.

They will be paid for through the stores' insurance reparations.

The owners don't deserve double payment.

You're taking in a lot of territory Burley. I saw a lot of the footage of shops being trashed that were above water level. There's no way to know if they will even get water.

I've been to New O. There's no guarentee the small shops have insurance that will cover them if the damage isn't related to wind or water. I seem to recall some shops in LA being unable to get their money or having to fight drawn out court battles because Rioting and looting weren't covered by their policies.

The insurance companies will be looking for any dodge they can find to limit their liability. And a lot of small bussinessmen won't have the money to battle them in court. A lot will end up settleing for pennies on the dollar because that's the best they may be able to get without a long drawn out litigation.

Theft is theft. If you are stealing to sta alive, I think provision needs to be made in both our moral/ethical and legal codes to take into account life itself may have been threatened. But if you're just out stealing because the cops don't have time or resources to mess with you while they are doing search and rescue, you need to get hit with the most severe punishment the law can provide because you are making an already tragic situation worse.

As to white people finding while black people are looting, I suspect it won't make one bit of difference to the bussines owner what color the people who broke into his shop and stripped it were. They'll all be criminal opportunists to him. Skin color, religious affiliation, gender etc. notwithstanding.

Using different terms in the two captions is just plain wrong. There is no excuse for it.

 

[comp|icity]

Has anything shown up on e-bay yet?

 

[CharleyH]

Theft is theft. If you are stealing to stay alive, I think provision needs to be made in both our moral/ethical and legal codes to take into account life itself may have been threatened. But if you're just out stealing because the cops don't have time or resources to mess with you while they are doing search and rescue, you need to get hit with the most severe punishment the law can provide because you are making an already tragic situation worse.

While I must admit that VB ALWAYS makes me chuckle, I do see your point in this. However, should society then allow stealing at every moment because people are poor? Or should the government actually do something about poverty in the US?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

While I must admit that VB ALWAYS makes me chuckle, I do see your point in this. However, should society then allow stealing at every moment because people are poor? Or should the government actually do something about poverty in the US?

In normal circumstance, being poor dosen't mean the same as starving to death Charley. Or dehydrating to death. For survival necissities like foor and water, in some cases medicine, there are legal means to obtain what you need.

In this? I just don't see any leagal means of doing so. In that circumstance, you might just have to do something illegal to eat. And I think moral/ethical concerns should be modified to fit that circumstance. As well as legal concerns.

But if you aren't taking a life need, then you're just a plain old thief and they ought to throw the book at you if they catch you. I don't see Tv's or jewlrey or hosehold goods as being life needs. I think if theonly things being taken were food and if the stores being looted weren't bneing vandalized as well, there would be little outrage. People have to eat. People don't have to have plasma tv's.

 

[Stella_Omega]

...
A tv, isn't going to help you survive. Nor are nine pairs of nike air swooshes or whatever. The line between trying to survive a disaster and trying to take advantage of it is pretty solid. If your house got blown away and your kid is still in his pj's and your wife is wearing her night gown, by most standards stealing clothing and shoes for them would be a matter of survival. If you are already clothed and have on shoes, walking out of a store with eight or ten pairs of shoes around your neck and a plastic bag over each shoulder is just plain old fashioned theft. There is no excuse for it...

I've seen looters- in Los Angeles, during the King Riots. And these were poor people, some of them, and gang members, some of them. And the one guy that I knew to talk to- he said- "maybe later I can sell these" (about the shoes) and make a little money "
He wasn't only thinking about his survival at that moment, he was thinking ahead. Not in any way you or I would- but his life was a day-to-day struggle. Every day. One catastrophe simply blended in with the next, you know?
I think, for some of these folk, the hurricane is only a little worse than normal life.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

. . . should society then allow stealing at . . . [this] . . . moment because people are poor? Or should the government actually do something about poverty in the US?

That, or course, is the main point.

Three days after Hurricane Katrina passed and the levees broke, no noticable amount of supplies --- potable water and MRE --- have arrived where they are needed.

When the basics of their society fails, can you blame the victims for not observing the niceties of civilization in favour of survival?


Whether those stores get insurance of not for their losses, considering what those items of food and clothing are going to undergo before their lawful owners can take possesion of them, I doubt whether they will be in any conditon to sell.

Or are you suggesting that the National Guard should rescue MallWart's supply of Liz Claiborne sweaters?

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Has anything shown up on e-bay yet?

Just to clarify: when I said I wouldn't call it anything fancier than looting, I was referring to myself. If I would steal food to stay alive, I would call it "stealing food to stay alive" (or "looting food to stay alive", if you prefer that), I wouldn't try to justify my actions by calling it "redistributing the wealth in order to stay alive" or something like that.

I'd might be a thief, but atleast I'd be an honest thief.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Lost In The Flood
Why no mention of race or class in TV's Katrina coverage?
By Jack Shafer

Because nice white people don't notice these things.

 

[NoJo]

The ultra-cynic in me keeps wondering how many Democrats are dying vs Republicans.