What the US 2024 “Election” Will Resolve:

[Politruk]

Socialists will be complaining for the rest of their lives, even more than capitalists, as the world adapts to a shrinking global economy and moves on to other economic systems.

Why would the global economy shrink? Are you talking about oil depletion?

 

[Bn2f]

It's the plutocrats who get rich(er), at the expense of the taxpayers, the middle class and the workers.

It’s a cruel world, isn’t it?
Being surrounded by conservative middle-class retirees decrying the taxation of billionaires and the corporations they own who then complain about inflation to politicians who promise them that if they get their vote they will then go to Washington to do nothing to help ease their middle class concerns.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

My retirement is tied directly to their (corporate) well-being.

This tells me you're the one-nickel crowd

no cricket action

martians discorporate : grok?

 

[ll74]

AJ never won fights.

Haitians aren't eating your pets.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

My retirement is tied directly to their (corporate) well-being.

This tells me you're the one-nickel crowd

no cricket action

martians discorporate : grok?

People who have no money have none because they don't know where it comes from.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

People who have no money have none because they don't know where it comes from.

for some

some just grasshoppers

always looking to snatch your pebble

 

[Wat_Tyler]

for some

some just grasshoppers

always looking to snatch your pebble

It's not allowed to say what happens to them.


I know - we'll take their Joy!!!

 

[JoePepsiCo]

Deep in their hearts! Deep in their hearts!

Mayan-style.

 

[deckardB26354]

Pointless question.

If Harris wins, you can kiss the USA goodbye. 50,000,000 illegals will be come US citizens and the USA will become a one party dictatorship, with hyper inflation, economic collapse and a dystopian civil war in the near future. Oh yeah, and if you're Jewish you better fuck off quick before the trains start coming.

If Trump wins, we kick millions of fucking illegals out, fix the broken electoral system, gut the Federal Government, stop the forever wars, experience an economic boom, raise the overall standard of living for everyone, gut the left wherever they are found by cutting off their government funding, and we're on Mars in 12 years.

Oh Comrade Bing Bang Bong, good job because there’s just so much stupid that you squeezed into one post.

Gawdfuckindamn you’re a stupid racist traitor.

 

[SevMax2]

There are always assholes who come in right before the Presidential election and state that electing either candidate will lead to disaster. The implication is that there is no purpose in voting.

Bullshit. If Harris is elected with coattails down-ballot, women's healthcare rights can be restored immediately.

Then, the problems with the election process itself can start to be addressed. Citizens United must be overturned. Limits must be placed on contributions to candidates and the amount of video advertising allowed. Mandatory debates with fact-checking must be held for Presidential candidates. Improving and shortening the Presidential election process will help to address many scare-tactic problems associated with the way politics currently affects foreign and domestic policies.

VOTE the MAGAts out of office. Don't listen to these lazy conspiracy assholes who say it's all fucked up so either stay at home or vote for Jill Stein. Don't listen to the jerks who are itching to use their guns.

I don't always agree with your assessments, but this one is spot on.

 

[SevMax2]

What works is social democracy.

You can tell because there are social democracies, where things in general go better than they go here.

Generally speaking, I must concur. It might vary from country to country, what form it takes. The United States and Canada will necessarily be less centralized versions of social democracy, but that being said, some variation of it would be better in every nation that I've ever seen.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

That "assessment" is chock-full of hyperbole and terror.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

What do the socialists intend to do on November 6th?

This involves an answer in two parts. One part concerns agenda items contingent upon today's vote, and thereafter developments. The other part concerns ongoing strategic work applicable at any time.

On the contingency side, socialists must alert and prepare the working class to deal with specific crises arising from the elevation of either Trump or Harris, neither of which holds anything to offer. Both mirror in different ways the staggering decline of US capitalism. So there will be much legal and procedural maneuvering. But we know that.

On the strategic side, there is ...

-- The basic challenge is to break free from the entire framework of US politics, and to see this process extended globally. A complete political break of working people everywhere, from their respective ruling classes.

-- Promotion of an internationalist and socialist program for addressing rising war, global war, and nuclear war, the restoration of diplomatic mission, of social and democratic rights, of public health, economic democracy and environmental integrity. The implementation of democratic forms of rule, etc.

-- The development of a direct and politically independent oppositional movement to government and its policies of war, inequality, job-cuts, social repression, etc., both domestically and globally.

-- Full, frontal assault on the privilege of, and the dispossession of both sections of the ruling class, including but not limited to the expropriation of ill-gotten wealth, that was expropriated from the working class. In Marx’ language, ‘expropriate the expropriators.’ This applies domestically and internationally.

-- Win the whole working class for the socialist agenda. A general strike. Refusal to return to work when ordered, by which regimes convert industrial strikes directly into political strikes against the central 'authority' of the state.

This is a crisis election. While it originates in one country, its ramifications include humanity globally. The solution to this crisis does not reside within the world capitalist system which created these multitudinous crises.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

Why do you think Russia attacked Ukraine?

You haven't attempted an answer to my question. Yet you solicit and expect a reply from me on one of your own. That is not offered as a criticism; but the point is duly noted.

The Russian Federation bases its SMO on its National Security doctrine. One can cavil about that, but the record is clear. There is a decades long antecedent history to this conflict, and attempts at an ahistorical line cannot stand in the face of any meaningful historical examination. From the interaction of events initiated by the US, by the RF and by UK, a timeline shows parallel actions and reactions from multiple nations. The examination of that brings facticity to light.

Essentially then, we are left with these two points:

1] NATO seeks to assert itself and to make Ukraine the means of a long planned proxy war to weaken and eventually dismantle the Russian Federation. 2] For its part, the Russian Federation desires a weakened NATO and a strong RF which will redefine the European security framework.

I addressed the question of rationales which you asked after I posted my question to you. Please address my question. Take your time! Have a good one.

 

[Bn2f]

You haven't attempted an answer to my question. Yet you solicit and expect a reply from me on one of your own. That is not offered as a criticism; but the point is duly noted.

The Russian Federation bases its SMO on its National Security doctrine. One can cavil about that, but the record is clear. There is a decades long antecedent history to this conflict, and attempts at an ahistorical line cannot stand in the face of any meaningful historical examination. From the interaction of events initiated by the US, by the RF and by UK, a timeline shows parallel actions and reactions from multiple nations. The examination of that brings facticity to light.

Essentially then, we are left with these two points:

1] NATO seeks to assert itself and to make Ukraine the means of a long planned proxy war to weaken and eventually dismantle the Russian Federation. 2] For its part, the Russian Federation desires a weakened NATO and a strong RF which will redefine the European security framework.

I addressed the question of rationales which you asked after I posted my question to you. Please address my question. Take your time! Have a good one.

STFU

 

[Holy_Seduction]

Russia is weak. They’re reduced to using mercenaries from North Korea to continue their aggression in Ukraine.

No concrete, publicly available evidence that would stand in a United States court of law confirms direct involvement of North Korean troops fighting alongside Russian in Ukraine. None. Nada. Zero.

Official documents with official letterheads? Signed by either a Russian Federation or North Korean official acting in an official capacity? ZILCH!

Eyewitness testimony from credible sources such as Doctors Without Borders, or the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies, or the International Crisis Group, or the United Nations, etc.?

Crickets - let alone collaborative reports from multiple sources or agencies.

What of physical evidence such as forensic analysis of weaponry, equipment or other matériels? Sorry! Audiovisual recordings or photographs of North Korean units in combat in identifiably Ukrainian settings?

Same answer!

Against that silence, we have US Defense Secretary Austin claiming unspecified ’evidence’ on DPRK presence in Ukraine, Zelensky’s allegation that it is preparing troops for Ukraine, and a quote from a South Korean lawmaker saying that NK is suppressing this “news.”

None of these assertions are collaborated. Given all absence of evidence, these claims would likely not stand well in a court where US jurisprudence was followed. So why are they promoted by the Defense Secretary with its compliant media-establishment? At present, I see two possibilities.

1] The US public is being fed narrative preparation for the reality of Ukraine’s impending collapse; it's because of the North Koreans! Or 2], the US public is being prepared for an escalation to include strikes deep into the Russian Federation.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

This involves an answer in two parts. One part concerns agenda items contingent upon today's vote, and thereafter developments. The other part concerns ongoing strategic work applicable at any time.

On the contingency side, socialists must alert and prepare the working class to deal with specific crises arising from the elevation of either Trump or Harris, neither of which holds anything to offer. Both mirror in different ways the staggering decline of US capitalism. So there will be much legal and procedural maneuvering. But we know that.

On the strategic side, there is ...

-- The basic challenge is to break free from the entire framework of US politics, and to see this process extended globally. A complete political break of working people everywhere, from their respective ruling classes.

-- Promotion of an internationalist and socialist program for addressing rising war, global war, and nuclear war, the restoration of diplomatic mission, of social and democratic rights, of public health, economic democracy and environmental integrity. The implementation of democratic forms of rule, etc.

-- The development of a direct and politically independent oppositional movement to government and its policies of war, inequality, job-cuts, social repression, etc., both domestically and globally.

-- Full, frontal assault on the privilege of, and the dispossession of both sections of the ruling class, including but not limited to the expropriation of ill-gotten wealth, that was expropriated from the working class. In Marx’ language, ‘expropriate the expropriators.’ This applies domestically and internationally.

-- Win the whole working class for the socialist agenda. A general strike. Refusal to return to work when ordered, by which regimes convert industrial strikes directly into political strikes against the central 'authority' of the state.

This is a crisis election. While it originates in one country, its ramifications include humanity globally. The solution to this crisis does not reside within the world capitalist system which created these multitudinous crises.

The socialist agenda sounds like a lot of talk no action.

Electing Democrats who will pass progressive laws actually helps people in concrete ways.

The socialists will continue to be marginalized in America until they figure out how to deliver the goods to the workers.

 

[Politruk]

-- Win the whole working class for the socialist agenda. A general strike.

That has been tried -- it never works.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You haven't attempted an answer to my question. Yet you solicit and expect a reply from me on one of your own. That is not offered as a criticism; but the point is duly noted.

The Russian Federation bases its SMO on its National Security doctrine. One can cavil about that, but the record is clear. There is a decades long antecedent history to this conflict, and attempts at an ahistorical line cannot stand in the face of any meaningful historical examination. From the interaction of events initiated by the US, by the RF and by UK, a timeline shows parallel actions and reactions from multiple nations. The examination of that brings facticity to light.

Essentially then, we are left with these two points:

1] NATO seeks to assert itself and to make Ukraine the means of a long planned proxy war to weaken and eventually dismantle the Russian Federation. 2] For its part, the Russian Federation desires a weakened NATO and a strong RF which will redefine the European security framework.

I addressed the question of rationales which you asked after I posted my question to you. Please address my question. Take your time! Have a good one.

The Russian Federation is still smarting over their loss of empire. They once were a great power, but now they're a minor player. Russia attacked Ukraine in a futile attempt at empire-building. They will never "redefine the European security framework". Those days are long gone.

 

[Bn2f]

No concrete, publicly available evidence that would stand in a United States court of law confirms direct involvement of North Korean troops fighting alongside Russian in Ukraine. None. Nada. Zero.

Official documents with official letterheads? Signed by either a Russian Federation or North Korean official acting in an official capacity? ZILCH!

Eyewitness testimony from credible sources such as Doctors Without Borders, or the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies, or the International Crisis Group, or the United Nations, etc.?

Crickets - let alone collaborative reports from multiple sources or agencies.

What of physical evidence such as forensic analysis of weaponry, equipment or other matériels? Sorry! Audiovisual recordings or photographs of North Korean units in combat in identifiably Ukrainian settings?

Same answer!

Against that silence, we have US Defense Secretary Austin claiming unspecified ’evidence’ on DPRK presence in Ukraine, Zelensky’s allegation that it is preparing troops for Ukraine, and a quote from a South Korean lawmaker saying that NK is suppressing this “news.”

None of these assertions are collaborated. Given all absence of evidence, these claims would likely not stand well in a court where US jurisprudence was followed. So why are they promoted by the Defense Secretary with its compliant media-establishment? At present, I see two possibilities.

1] The US public is being fed narrative preparation for the reality of Ukraine’s impending collapse; it's because of the North Koreans! Or 2], the US public is being prepared for an escalation to include strikes deep into the Russian Federation.

Piss or get off the pot!

Who did you vote for?

 

[TrailerHitch]

This election is about whether democracy will prevail in the United States or whether we will be ruled by oligarchs.

You mean like Obama, Soros, the DNC, the Clintons, and more?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You mean like Obama, Soros, the DNC, the Clintons, and more?

No I mean Musk and Thiel. They own Trulmp and Vance.

 

[Bn2f]

You mean like Obama, Soros, the DNC, the Clintons, and more?

This person obviously has no idea what an oligarch is.

 

[TrailerHitch]

No I mean Musk and Thiel. They own Trulmp and Vance.

And the one's I mentioned are the democrats puppet masters.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

Russia is weak. They’re reduced to using mercenaries from North Korea to continue their aggression in Ukraine.

BSG:

I'm rather surprised to read this. Do any inquiries lie behind it? Have you drafted a balance sheet comparing the capacity of the Russian Federation with say the United States? Or with China? There are a number of such publications out there which do this on a regular basis. There is Jane's Defense, The Military Balance, The US News and World Report and others. Did you confer with any such works? Can you indicate any such study as stands behind your assertion?

For some years, the US News and World Report has published an annual survey military capability. Writing for Financial World, October 31, 2023, Sededin Dedovic wrote:

"...the Russian army has earned the distinction of being the most formidable military force globally."
The FW piece goes on to say that in this comprehensive global ranking of military power, the United States was second, and the People's Republic of China was third.

Now certainly, all such publications don't take that view. I've found China rated a close second after the US, with the Russian Federation a distant third. Then there is the Global Firepower Index, which ranks the RF a close second after the US, specifically, the RF is second out of 145 nations. Then there is a by category breakdown comparison of the Russian Federation and Ukraine. Scrolling down, you will find plenty of information on that page, including this disturbing point.

Regarding allegations of North Korean, combat-engaged troops in the RF, I see no conclusive evidence of their operation as I said elsewhere on this thread. I have found a statement by a leading RF figure which may suggest this. But I'll need more than that before I can confirm this. Remember that there is a substantial Korean diaspora in the RF. And reaching out to the Pacific, the Federation borders on several Chinese countries. Moreover, the predominant racial groups from those countries have always extended into what is RF territory. The same phenomena exists in the US, where tribes of the United Mexican States overlap on what is now US soil. When you annex Texas, you also get all the Indians who live there. And Trump is going to boot them from where their families lived since year 1?! He's MAD!

But even ceding [for argument's sake only], that some 10,000 North Korean soldiers are joined to the SMO. And let's overlook the enormous problems of integrating differing doctrinal, organizational, command styles, protocol systems, procedural, logistical and other issues [not the least of which is the language barrier] from one nation into another, we still face this huge problem. And that becomes apparent as soon as you look at a map.

The region is simply huge! In Ukraine, 10,000 is a mere drop in the bucket. If [as you say] the Federation is 'reduced' to using foreign soldiers to fight for them, 10,000 isn't going to change a thing. It just won't. Meaningful defense requires multiple lines. It requires overlapping fields of fire with multiple system types. It requires logistics to supply food and fuel, bullets and bombs, men and munitions, and none can congregate in measure or they'll be targeted and destroyed.

Ukraine is said to need some 160,000 troops now just to prevent collapse. That should give us a sense of the numbers that are needed in such conflict. And mere demographics should tell us the story. As for Ukraine, it has been reduced on some reports to some 15M. Beside that is the RF population of some 150M. Where do people think this goes?!

Well ... now I'll wait for a reply to the initial question I asked, as well as the one postulated here, regarding what sources you referenced for your statements.

Take care!

Later.