what obligations to realism?

[joy_of_cooking]

I wrote a story about workplace sexual harassment culminating in very nearly a rape (averted at the last minute). About a quarter of it is depressing aftermath showing how the experience ripples through her life, in ways ranging from trivial (she missed dinner with a friend) to quite serious (she needs to find another job, and might have panic attacks every time she does a common and necessary task in her line of work).

It's intentionally not much fun to read and I should probably cut it but...I feel this obligation not to go out on a high note on this particular story? Not to say, "and then she escaped by the skin of her teeth so that's all right then!"

Has anyone else dealt with such feelings?

 

[Rob_Royale]

No. My stories are fantasies. Any resemblance to reality is accidental. Erotica is escapism for me and I like it that way.

 

[SimonDoom]

I feel no obligation whatsoever to conform to "realism" in my stories. My stories are erotic fantasies. I strive for verisimilitude--just enough touches of realism to pull off the fantasy without asking the reader to suspend too much disbelief. But in some of my stories I push even that envelope, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

 

[Euphony]

You have to tell your story. If the point you're creatively driven to make is only supported by cold, prickly things, so be it.

The only time it should be considered bad form is if you sell a tone of HEA, saccharine, sweet, lovey dovey than drop a hydrogen bomb on your characters to flex to your audience you could or to delight in fooling them.

Blind surprise just doesn't work for me as a concept. Don't need to be overt in foreshadowing but, on reflection with hindsight, everything should click as cause/effect supported.

Theme should be congruent with the tragedy bit but can certainly be murky in how things will go awry.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Kinda depends on your target audience. If I want them to spend just enough time with my work to jerk off to it, I write out a fantasy. If I want to write a story, I kinda need the whole thing to make sense and portray characters with actual character. Both of those goals require a touch of realism.

And I see that in other people's work as well. Best example would be to take a look at the comments underneath a story that involved a military theme. If the author didn't meticulously research how life on a navy boat actually looks like, the comment section will be flooded with people shitting all over the whole thing because of that mistake, even if it has absolutely nothing to do with the story's development.

Now, that being said, If I read one more story where a cheated spouse is awarded millions after suing the affair partner for Alienation of Affection,...

 

[CyranoJ]

Has anyone else dealt with such feelings?

I deal with the gulf between the reality and the fantasy of NC/R every time I write for the category or do anything similar elsewhere. Ultimately, I'm okay with producing fantasy -- that's what porn is and that's what I write, here at least -- but I'm well aware that certain kinds of fantasy dovetail with certain kinds of very real and harmful ideology. I try to produce fantasies that undercut that kind of extremism. But there's no way to make NC/R fantasy tame or tractable. Conflict is baked into the premise and indeed is the root of its attraction.

Beyond extreme kink, I only care about "realism" insofar as it improves a story. If it doesn't, that's okay. Outside of NC/R as within it, I'm mostly writing fantasy and I don't really give a shit about anything else.

 

[MrPixel]

To stay faithful to the dark tone of the story and reflect the real world, I would have her successfully find another job in her field, but at an employer she really didn’t like, and at a couple of clicks down in pay. Basically, a “make do” job to escape the angst of the harassment situation.

IOW, sort of a gray conclusion, one of personal setback while she picks up the pieces and moves on with her life.

 

[KeithD]

I let the story write itself. Sometimes it becomes quite real and can end on something other HEA. I let it do so, if that's what will make the story authentic. I don't force a story to be something outside of its own reality.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I wrote a story about workplace sexual harassment culminating in very nearly a rape (averted at the last minute). About a quarter of it is depressing aftermath showing how the experience ripples through her life, in ways ranging from trivial (she missed dinner with a friend) to quite serious (she needs to find another job, and might have panic attacks every time she does a common and necessary task in her line of work).

It's intentionally not much fun to read and I should probably cut it but...I feel this obligation not to go out on a high note on this particular story? Not to say, "and then she escaped by the skin of her teeth so that's all right then!"

Has anyone else dealt with such feelings?

You have chosen a story that I feel is important.
I personally and this is my opinion only.
The story needs to rely on telling the real emotions of such a traumatic emotional event.To take it into a meanigful story, it would need to explore the difficulties people recovering from sexual harrassment undergo.
Loss of self esteem.
Loss of trust in people in general, byut specific to people with power over her such as supervisors.
She will feel let down by people who try to help. She will hear over and over just get over it. Move on, let it go, don't be a victim.
She will feel depressed.
she will break down for no reason. Triggered by some meaningless comment.
May lose the ability to travel on public transport.
Become uncomfortable in crowds.
Even her family won't understand why she can't talk to them.

I would love to see a happy ending, but it would come after a lot of therapy...
just my thoughts
Cagivagurl.

 

[EmilyMiller]

You have chosen a story that I feel is important.
I personally and this is my opinion only.
The story needs to rely on telling the real emotions of such a traumatic emotional event.To take it into a meanigful story, it would need to explore the difficulties people recovering from sexual harrassment undergo.
Loss of self esteem.
Loss of trust in people in general, byut specific to people with power over her such as supervisors.
She will feel let down by people who try to help. She will hear over and over just get over it. Move on, let it go, don't be a victim.
She will feel depressed.
she will break down for no reason. Triggered by some meaningless comment.
May lose the ability to travel on public transport.
Become uncomfortable in crowds.
Even her family won't understand why she can't talk to them.

I would love to see a happy ending, but it would come after a lot of therapy...
just my thoughts
Cagivagurl.

That would be a realistic take. No one “gets over” sexual assault. Even coming to terms with it is not a trivial matter. No one is OK quickly, even if the assault falls short if actual rape. Tell that story maybe.

Em

 

[ronde]

I wrote a story about workplace sexual harassment culminating in very nearly a rape (averted at the last minute). About a quarter of it is depressing aftermath showing how the experience ripples through her life, in ways ranging from trivial (she missed dinner with a friend) to quite serious (she needs to find another job, and might have panic attacks every time she does a common and necessary task in her line of work).

It's intentionally not much fun to read and I should probably cut it but...I feel this obligation not to go out on a high note on this particular story? Not to say, "and then she escaped by the skin of her teeth so that's all right then!"

Has anyone else dealt with such feelings?

I firmly believe that if a story is to pull in a reader the characters have to also be real, and that means they have all the fears, hopes, hangups and general insecurity that all of us have. That probably isn't true for some readers of some genre, but it is for the genre in which I mostly write. Some people react to situations more than others, and if your character was indeed traumatized, that's how you should write her. A way to fix your reservations is to give her a way to express her feelings and maybe find some solace with another person. It doesn't have to end with "happily ever after". It can end with "getting better with some help".

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Not really into fucked up endings. I've dealt with enough bullshit in life, I don't want it meeting me where I'm trying to escape from it.

 

[HectorBidon]

I wrote a story about workplace sexual harassment culminating in very nearly a rape

Did you intend the story to be erotic? In the crudest sense, the eroticism of a story can be measured objectively using a penile plethysmograph. If your depiction of sexual harrassment and near rape are meant to arouse the reader sexually, then that is the erotic effect that your story aims to achieve. There are readers who get off on that type of thing. Depicting the depressing aftermath won't negate that fact.

If it bothers you to write for that type of audience, then write a different story. As others have said there are no end of erotic encounters that have positive, hopeful, life-affirming aftermaths.

On the other hand, if you really want to write about the "real emotions of such a traumatic emotional event" along the lines of Cagivagurl, then it seems to me that you should go out of your way to make sure that the story does not provide unintended titillation. Not necessarily that it goes into the Non-Erotic category, because few people would read it there, but that the depiction of the harassment is told from the victim's point of view.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Did you intend the story to be erotic? In the crudest sense, the eroticism of a story can be measured objectively using a penile plethysmograph. If your depiction of sexual harrassment and near rape are meant to arouse the reader sexually, then that is the erotic effect that your story aims to achieve. There are readers who get off on that type of thing. Depicting the depressing aftermath won't negate that fact.

If it bothers you to write for that type of audience, then write a different story. As others have said there are no end of erotic encounters that have positive, hopeful, life-affirming aftermaths.

On the other hand, if you really want to write about the "real emotions of such a traumatic emotional event" along the lines of Cagivagurl, then it seems to me that you should go out of your way to make sure that the story does not provide unintended titillation. Not necessarily that it goes into the Non-Erotic category, because few people would read it there, but that the depiction of the harassment is told from the victim's point of view.

Agree - you can’t make it “realistic” without dealing with the destroyed person afterwards.

Otherwise make it the quotidian woman gets raped and somehow enjoys it for reasons that make no sense and wait for the NC/R applause.

Em

 

[joy_of_cooking]

If your depiction of sexual harrassment and near rape are meant to arouse the reader sexually, then that is the erotic effect that your story aims to achieve. There are readers who get off on that type of thing. Depicting the depressing aftermath won't negate that fact.

Agree - you can’t make it “realistic” without dealing with the destroyed person afterwards.

Otherwise make it the quotidian woman gets raped and somehow enjoys it for reasons that make no sense and wait for the NC/R applause.

The narrator is the harassed woman and the eroticism is meant to come from the way she turns the tables on her predatory boss by recognizing and exploiting his intense shoe fetish, filming him on his knees begging to worship her shoes, and blackmailing him with the video. I'm going to post it in Fetish.

I actually got feedback from a beta reader that the harassment was uncomfortable to read and it was really hot when she takes control. That made my day, let me tell you.

But, yes, I very much don't want the story to have a victim-blame-y "just gotta assert dominance!" kind of message. I'm going to point out how unreasonably lucky she was, and it's definitely going to be a professionally fraught and personally harrowing experience nonetheless. I'm just trying to figure out how much to dwell on that angle.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Did you intend the story to be erotic? In the crudest sense, the eroticism of a story can be measured objectively using a penile plethysmograph. If your depiction of sexual harrassment and near rape are meant to arouse the reader sexually, then that is the erotic effect that your story aims to achieve. There are readers who get off on that type of thing. Depicting the depressing aftermath won't negate that fact.

If it bothers you to write for that type of audience, then write a different story. As others have said there are no end of erotic encounters that have positive, hopeful, life-affirming aftermaths.

On the other hand, if you really want to write about the "real emotions of such a traumatic emotional event" along the lines of Cagivagurl, then it seems to me that you should go out of your way to make sure that the story does not provide unintended titillation. Not necessarily that it goes into the Non-Erotic category, because few people would read it there, but that the depiction of the harassment is told from the victim's point of view.

The story can still be erotic, and "tritylating"
That would come after her sexual harassment / assault. It would come during her recovery.
If she is treated properly, there is no reason why she shouldn't go on to lead a wonderfully happy life.
If the story is going to be erotic, that's where that aspect of the story can blossom...
The sexual assault should be dealt with as it would be in real life.
A crime... Sexual harassment is not just unethical, it is illegal.

Cagivagurl

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

I actually got feedback from a beta reader that the harassment was uncomfortable to read and it was really hot when she takes control. That made my day, let me tell you.

Yeah, I just realized that, even from a reader's perspective, I still prefer a thorough take on darker plot points.

I unsuccessfully tried to find it but, a few weeks ago, I read a story in the LW section. The story started by following a son who comes home from school to find his mother seemingly being raped in the living room. So, the son goes down to the basement, gets his father's gun, and shoots the perceived rapist in the chest, killing him on the spot.

And then the story switches to the husband's/father's POV, where we find out the perceived rapist was, in fact, the wife's lover, and they were just roleplaying.

Now, my problem with that story was that the whole killing-plot was nothing more than a device to make the husband "discover" his wife's infidelity before the story moves on to tell the tale of his divorce.

And I sat in front of my computer and thought: I don't give a flying fuck about their divorce! I just read about a child ending another human being's life after witnessing his mother's rape, and now you move on to tell me about their division of assets!? The husband's hurt feelings!? Are you kidding me!?

The entire thing just felt... cheap. The author could have used it to portray his MC as an awesome father who helps his child through the trauma. But no, it was solely used to further shame and guilt the wife. All the author comments about the son from then on is a side note about him getting therapy while the cheated husband, in great detail, worries about being a part-time dad.

So... yeah... I really do believe that taking dark themes seriously, and treating them with the proper respect, can only enhance a story.

 

[AchtungNight]

Sometimes reality hits me hard when I write stories and I have to include it in a way I didn’t expect. I’m glad I keep things open and always have realistic expectations in mind, especially when I write about characters based on real people. Keeping things open ended in certain ways is key.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Yeah, I just realized that, even from a reader's perspective, I still prefer a thorough take on darker plot points.

I unsuccessfully tried to find it but, a few weeks ago, I read a story in the LW section. The story started by following a son who comes home from school to find his mother seemingly being raped in the living room. So, the son goes down to the basement, gets his father's gun, and shoots the perceived rapist in the chest, killing him on the spot.

And then the story switches to the husband's/father's POV, where we find out the perceived rapist was, in fact, the wife's lover, and they were just roleplaying.

Now, my problem with that story was that the whole killing-plot was nothing more than a device to make the husband "discover" his wife's infidelity before the story moves on to tell the tale of his divorce.

And I sat in front of my computer and thought: I don't give a flying fuck about their divorce! I just read about a child ending another human being's life after witnessing his mother's rape, and now you move on to tell me about their division of assets!? The husband's hurt feelings!? Are you kidding me!?

The entire thing just felt... cheap. The author could have used it to portray his MC as an awesome father who helps his child through the trauma. But no, it was solely used to further shame and guilt the wife. All the author comments about the son from then on is a side note about him getting therapy while the cheated husband, in great detail, worries about being a part-time dad.

So... yeah... I really do believe that taking dark themes seriously, and treating them with the proper respect, can only enhance a story.

All LW is about the poor husband’s hurt feelings. Everything else is incidental. You don’t really wonder about women cheating on self-absorbed miserable people like most of the MMCs.

Em

 

[LiverpoolMaster]

Realism is always a desirable goal in erotic writing... not merely sometimes but always, as this is indisputably a draw to the investment of credence on the part of the reader.

What the OP has to question is whether a story built around unrelenting misery can actually be erotic. Most writers would tend to dismiss such a plot out of hand, I would have thought.

 

[samhasstories]

Realism is a consideration in my stories, but only loosely. I'm writing out erotic fantasies, and often the fantasies are not particularly realistic. So I bend the rules. But sometimes it gets away from me, and I'm reading over what I've written and it just seems too far-fetched - the characters become less interesting when they don't feel real to me, and when the characters are less interesting, so too is the sex - and I go in and scale it back some.

Relating more directly to the original post, I haven't written any erotica about sexual assault or harassment, and I doubt I will. I've ventured - carefully - there in some non-erotica I've written, but there part of the point is exploring consequences. In my erotica, part of the fantasy is there are no serious consequences to speak of, at least from the sex. My erotica characters live in a utopia where everyone's horny and no one's uncomfortable with it (which is not so much the reality I live in, per se).

 

[forgotmyantidepressants]

Dark erotica is a very real thing. Sex is an incredibly complex aspect of a human being's life. To say that some of humanity's darkness doesn't bleed into sexuality is (unfortunately) untrue. I enjoy stories that explore the thoughts/emotions/reactions to negative experiences, but I know they're not for everyone. I kind of think you should trust your gut on this one... if not going out on a high note feels right to you, then I think you should keep your more realistic ending. But what do I know? I'm just a random internet weirdo lol.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Realism is always a desirable goal in erotic writing... not merely sometimes but always, as this is indisputably a draw to the investment of credence on the part of the reader.

What the OP has to question is whether a story built around unrelenting misery can actually be erotic. Most writers would tend to dismiss such a plot out of hand, I would have thought.

The standard template I was taught involves exposition, rising action, climax(he he), falling action, and denouement. I would think a story with unrelenting misery would have a hard time following this pattern. It can probably be as erotic as hell(pun intended), but would it be a good story?

 

[samhasstories]

The standard template I was taught involves exposition, rising action, climax(he he), falling action, and denouement. I would think a story with unrelenting misery would have a hard time following this pattern. It can probably be as erotic as hell(pun intended), but would it be a good story?

I think that template applies more to plot progression than to characters' emotional states. I've read plenty of super depressing stories that have a clear denouement. That doesn't necessarily mean happily ever after.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

I think that template applies more to plot progression than to characters' emotional states. I've read plenty of super depressing stories that have a clear denouement. That doesn't necessarily mean happily ever after.

Good differentiation. I just see perpetual misery as continuous stress(rising action) with no release. I may be conflating the overall mood with specific characters in that story.