What makes you submissive?

[*WanderingSub*]

...having just "thoughts" like that wouldn't change your status as a sub....

...<grin>...it takes a blood test to determine that...if your blood is red, you have a one in three chance of being a "true sub"......

Whew!

*blood is red*

 

[BiBunny]

What makes me submissive...?

Would it be uncouth to call names?

 

[DVS]

For a long while now, I've known that I'm a sub. But, I also have fantasies of doing just what you mentioned above......"bend a man over a table". I've been told that because I do have such thoughts, that I can not be a true sub, but more of a switch. Though I have had no real life experience at being either, being sub comes much more natural to me. So, wanting to take a man...........that doesn't make me a sub?

Just thinking about it doesn't make you anything. It depends on how much you think about something...if those thoughts are stronger than any other thoughts you might be having.

With the right woman, I could sometimes be submissive. I've had those thoughts before. It's just that I don't have strong submissive thoughts, and any submissive thoughts are nearly squelched by my dominant thoughts. So, just because I sometimes think of being submissive, does this make me a switch and not a Dom?

I don't think there is a scale that tilts one way or the other, just on how often you think about something. We mostly act on the thoughts that feel the strongest. If we were all judged on every thought we had, I think the world would be full of nothing but a bunch of switches.

This really hits home to me. And I doubt I could have said it better myself. I have often wondered how my life/personality would have been different if it weren't for certain things that happened in my life.
Very nicely said.

I had a shy side, growing up. Obviously, I grew out of it, but I remember how it felt to be intimidated by others. Something inside me just snapped and I told myself it wasn't going to happen any more.

But that something that snapped...I'm sure it isn't always so easy for everybody. They say time heals all wounds. The problem is, time can be infinite. With the help of another as a catalyst, hopefully time could be made shorter. Maybe that's what they mean by the perfect relationship.

 

[DVS]

Whew!

*blood is red*

OK, something's wrong, here. My blood is red, too.

Oh, I read the post again. Never mind.

 

[*WanderingSub*]

Just thinking about it doesn't make you anything. It depends on how much you think about something...if those thoughts are stronger than any other thoughts you might be having.

With the right woman, I could sometimes be submissive. I've had those thoughts before. It's just that I don't have strong submissive thoughts, and any submissive thoughts are nearly squelched by my dominant thoughts. So, just because I sometimes think of being submissive, does this make me a switch and not a Dom?

I don't think there is a scale that tilts one way or the other, just on how often you think about something. We mostly act on the thoughts that feel the strongest. If we were all judged on every thought we had, I think the world would be full of nothing but a bunch of switches.
I had a shy side, growing up. Obviously, I grew out of it, but I remember how it felt to be intimidated by others. Something inside me just snapped and I told myself it wasn't going to happen any more.

But that something that snapped...I'm sure it isn't always so easy for everybody. They say time heals all wounds. The problem is, time can be infinite. With the help of another as a catalyst, hopefully time could be made shorter. Maybe that's what they mean by the perfect relationship.

I wouldn't say that those thoughts are stronger than my sub desires, but I do think of it often. I'll also *chat* in that way as well, and watch vids, pics, etc.

Maybe one day that something will snap within myself. Hopefully soon

I know it would be a lot easier to have that special someone by my side to help me along the way. One day.......

 

[*WanderingSub*]

OK, something's wrong, here. My blood is red, too.

Oh, I read the post again. Never mind.

Cute..

 

[DVS]

I wouldn't say that those thoughts are stronger than my sub desires, but I do think of it often. I'll also *chat* in that way as well, and watch vids, pics, etc.

Maybe one day that something will snap within myself. Hopefully soon

I know it would be a lot easier to have that special someone by my side to help me along the way. One day.......

Well, you could be a switch. It depends on if you desire something that isn't fulfilled, one way or the other. How strong are your desires?

If you were to find yourself a Dom and be submissive to him for a while, then one night put on a strap-on and tell him "I want to try something different, tonight"...would he go for it? And if he said no, would you feel your desires are not being fufilled and seek another mate?

Switch or sub...switch or sub. Decisions, decisions. Personally, I see nothing wrong with either. You do need to decide how strongly you feel about things, though. Some Doms don't like their submissives to wear strap-ons. It tends to make them nervous.

 

[BiBunny]

Any man who's apprehensive about my strap-on ain't no man at all.

 

[DVS]

Any man who's apprehensive about my strap-on ain't no man at all.

Remind me to never turn my back on you, then. I'm a giver, not a receiver.

I do understand your position on the subject. But, it won't ever be behind me.

 

[malinborn]

*grins thinking about her strap-on*

 

[BiBunny]

*Giggles at DVS and malin*

Nothing wrong with being a giver instead of a receiver, or a receiver instead of a giver. I just happen to enjoy the hell out of both.

 

[alexanna]

I've thought about this a lot and the only thing I can comfortably claim to be for certain is a bottom. Submissive is something I struggle to define and to be. I cannot say I am a submissive in the same way I can say I am a female or any number of other things. Its more than just subjective it is a moving target and only tangible when I'm feeling it.

Submissive is something I strive to be but only something I am in the moment I have successfuly reached that state of being and it is never permanent, it always threatens to leave me.

 

[Netzach]

Getting generally sick of myself puts me in that mood. Kind of wanting to feel a sense of slash and burn clearing, a re-inventive and exploratory urge.

I'm not an other-focused person in general. I like making him happy, but neither of us are silly enough to think that's all there is to it.

Wow, DVS, nice post, I feel a sudden "separated at birth?" sense of agreement.

 

[alexanna]

Well, you could be a switch. It depends on if you desire something that isn't fulfilled, one way or the other. How strong are your desires?

If you were to find yourself a Dom and be submissive to him for a while, then one night put on a strap-on and tell him "I want to try something different, tonight"...would he go for it? And if he said no, would you feel your desires are not being fufilled and seek another mate?

Switch or sub...switch or sub. Decisions, decisions. Personally, I see nothing wrong with either. You do need to decide how strongly you feel about things, though. Some Doms don't like their submissives to wear strap-ons. It tends to make them nervous.

And here's a good story of a pyl who gets her birthday wish and fucks her PYL.

Just happens to be called "Strapping It On"

http://www.thespankingcorner.com/stories/bookbabe/strapping_it_on.html

 

[alexanna]

Getting generally sick of myself puts me in that mood. Kind of wanting to feel a sense of slash and burn clearing, a re-inventive and exploratory urge.

I'm not an other-focused person in general. I like making him happy, but neither of us are silly enough to think that's all there is to it.

Wow, DVS, nice post, I feel a sudden "separated at birth?" sense of agreement.

At root my "submission" is a lot more about me getting what I want than pleasing him. I can be honest. I'm a bit of a princess. I like feeling like its all about pleasing him but that's just another experience I want for myself. Him being pleased is just a nice side effect really.

I don't really top from the bottom with him because I don't have to. If I wasn't getting what I needed you better believe I would be. I wouldn't be able to help myself. Luckily I have a fairly broad range of "needs" and they amount more to needing a sort of dynamic or experience, not a specific script.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

At root my "submission" is a lot more about me getting what I want than pleasing him. I can be honest. I'm a bit of a princess. I like feeling like its all about pleasing him but that's just another experience I want for myself. Him being pleased is just a nice side effect really.

I don't really top from the bottom with him because I don't have to. If I wasn't getting what I needed you better believe I would be. I wouldn't be able to help myself. Luckily I have a fairly broad range of "needs" and they amount more to needing a sort of dynamic or experience, not a specific script.

Seriously ?

Maybe I need more coffee, scusey : chuckles :

 

[alexanna]

Seriously what?

 

[Homburg]

At root my "submission" is a lot more about me getting what I want than pleasing him. I can be honest. I'm a bit of a princess. I like feeling like its all about pleasing him but that's just another experience I want for myself. Him being pleased is just a nice side effect really.

I don't really top from the bottom with him because I don't have to. If I wasn't getting what I needed you better believe I would be. I wouldn't be able to help myself. Luckily I have a fairly broad range of "needs" and they amount more to needing a sort of dynamic or experience, not a specific script.

Well, it's like you said above, you're a bottom, not a submissive. It happens. Sounds like he's doesn't mind being a service top. *shrug* whatever floats your boat, right?

 

[Netzach]

If submission involved being so other focused that you'll do anything for your lover most everyone I know would still be in a vanilla marriage, going "oh well, it's what he wanted."

 

[alexanna]

Well, it's like you said above, you're a bottom, not a submissive. It happens. Sounds like he's doesn't mind being a service top. *shrug* whatever floats your boat, right?

He doesn't mind for now. We'll see what happens. I do service him whenever he wants in whatever way he wants and I enjoy doing it. I like feeling submissive but no that would not be enough for me. I also like cooking for him and all the other stuff a wife and mother does but all that feels a lot more drab if I'm not being beaten once in awhile and having some of my personal fantasies fulfilled as well.

He chooses whether to fulfill my fantasies or not but if he chose not to for long periods of time I'm not going to lie to myself and say I would just be happy pleasing him because I wouldn't. I would act up. I wouldn't like myself for acting up but I'd still do it and I'd still be unhappy.

I'm not a service oriented sub although I do provide a lot of service. There was a thread awhile back where a whole slew of subs chimed in about how their "Dom" is required to do the dishes if they make dinner. Well in my house, I've always done the dishes even when we were vanilla. All those subs identify as being submissive but they have no trouble requiring this sort of egalitarian fairness to particular household chores (not sure what the deal is with dishes). I probably perform more mundane service than many subs who identify as submissive but I rarely feel comfortable calling myself a submissive because I have my own desires and if they are denied for too long I'm not okay with that. I guess I feel like if I was a "true submissive" I would be.

 

[Homburg]

He doesn't mind for now. We'll see what happens. I do service him whenever he wants in whatever way he wants and I enjoy doing it. I like feeling submissive but no that would not be enough for me. I also like cooking for him and all the other stuff a wife and mother does but all that feels a lot more drab if I'm not being beaten once in awhile and having some of my personal fantasies fulfilled as well.

He chooses whether to fulfill my fantasies or not but if he chose not to for long periods of time I'm not going to lie to myself and say I would just be happy pleasing him because I wouldn't. I would act up. I wouldn't like myself for acting up but I'd still do it and I'd still be unhappy.

I'm not a service oriented sub although I do provide a lot of service. There was a thread awhile back where a whole slew of subs chimed in about how their "Dom" is required to do the dishes if they make dinner. Well in my house, I've always done the dishes even when we were vanilla. All those subs identify as being submissive but they have no trouble requiring this sort of egalitarian fairness to particular household chores (not sure what the deal is with dishes). I probably perform more mundane service than many subs who identify as submissive but I rarely feel comfortable calling myself a submissive because I have my own desires and if they are denied for too long I'm not okay with that. I guess I feel like if I was a "true submissive" I would be.

Do the dishes? My dishes make it into the dishwasher by my hand (sometimes), but largely because I don't want to be waited on hand and foot. Yeah, it's kinda fun, but I'm busy. Part of being waited on is getting her over here to grab my plate. I'm not going to wait that long, and I'm not going to leave it there. That's not how I was raised. That said, the only time I do the dishes is when she is not home and I need a dish. There's no "she cooks, I do the dishes" deal. I'm not egalitarian like that. I'm not egalitarian about a lot of things. It's an unequal relationship for fuck's sake.

And there's no such thing as a "true submissive" by the way. If you're saying that you're not a submissive because you don't live up to some pre-concieved notion, don't sweat that. Your average self-proclaimed "true submissive", and "true master/dominat/whatever", are just truly stuck on themselves.

 

[alexanna]

I should also clarify that at this stage in our relationship I happen to be the person that knows the most about BDSM. I've had the most exposure. Had the most time to think about what I like and what I want. This gives me the feeling that I'm topping from the bottom and maybe I am and for right now I think that is okay to some extent.

Part of my issue with identifying as a submissive is that I know I am a manipulative person by nature. I'm very political. I know how to release and withold information to encourage those around me to think how I would like them to. It isn't that I am necessarily doing this in this instance but the fact that I do it as part of my identity makes me feel uncomfortable about controlling the flow of information in this area. This is part of my fixation on transparency. I'm not sure how to be transparent when it is impossible to convey ALL the information in my head and the gap is always getting bigger. I read ALOT, I browse ALOT. Its just what I do. If he never catches up am I always topping from the bottom?

I'm being a bit silly really because I know US and I know WE are always going to be in control. That's how he wants it and he knows I could never be happy having no control even if that is hard for me to accept. I enjoy feeling it taken away on occasion and I just need to accept that's as far as it will go.

 

[Kajira Callista]

What an odd thread.

 

[Homburg]

I should also clarify that at this stage in our relationship I happen to be the person that knows the most about BDSM. I've had the most exposure. Had the most time to think about what I like and what I want. This gives me the feeling that I'm topping from the bottom and maybe I am and for right now I think that is okay to some extent.

Part of my issue with identifying as a submissive is that I know I am a manipulative person by nature. I'm very political. I know how to release and withold information to encourage those around me to think how I would like them to. It isn't that I am necessarily doing this in this instance but the fact that I do it as part of my identity makes me feel uncomfortable about controlling the flow of information in this area. This is part of my fixation on transparency. I'm not sure how to be transparent when it is impossible to convey ALL the information in my head and the gap is always getting bigger. I read ALOT, I browse ALOT. Its just what I do. If he never catches up am I always topping from the bottom?

I'm being a bit silly really because I know US and I know WE are always going to be in control. That's how he wants it and he knows I could never be happy having no control even if that is hard for me to accept. I enjoy feeling it taken away on occasion and I just need to accept that's as far as it will go.

Heh, again, if you think that being a submissive somehow means not being a callow, political manipulator, you've not been watching submissives in action. Submissives are people just like everyone else, and just as like to be manipulative.

And a lot of submissives are only submissive in the bedroom. *shrug*

I would suggest applying the Marquis Test to it. Do you "do what you're fucking told to do"?

 

[snowy ciara]

And there's no such thing as a "true submissive" by the way. If you're saying that you're not a submissive because you don't live up to some pre-concieved notion, don't sweat that. Your average self-proclaimed "true submissive", and "true master/dominat/whatever", are just truly stuck on themselves.

A lot of us have the experience that as soon as someone starts with the "true" Dominant, "true" submissive, and "true" BDSM, it's time to crank up the old BS-O-Meter. You know, there's really no "One True BDSM Way", though there is a small but vocal minority that insists there is one, and they have it, and if you don't like than you're not "true". This is why I tend to avoid organized BDSM in clubs and stuff. The southern Arizona club is really great about being pan fetish, and I loved visiting when I was down there and happened to be a member. They were very newbie positive and very accepting of all sorts of orientations. But I haven't found a club here that's so accepting. The one that I'm a member of now, is the one that my Mistress is a member of, and the reason I joined is because of her. But frequently, I'm viewed as not quite enough on several counts, and one of the criteria is that I'm too outspoken and stubborn to be a "true submissive". Also the whole "sister" and "brother" thing is big here and I hate that. Just a personal quirk.

I guess what it comes down is that whatever it is that makes me submissive, it's very personal, and it's internal, and as long as I know what I am and am comfortable it doesn't matter if I don't fit into some judgmental yahoo's "One True Way of BDSM". But having once been accepted for what I am, with no need to prove my subness has spoiled me.