What is the difference between Red, ginger and flame-haired.

[gauchecritic]

Can a simple hair colour make a character that different?

The redhead across the room drilled into my brain with her gaze,

but,

The ginger girl across the room winked brazenly,

whilst,

The flame haired girl pinned me to the wall with her eyes.

Are there any other descriptives or even body parts that make a character only act in a particular manner? If you give them big feet do they have to be clumsy or with small; trip lightly on their toes?

If they use short words are they terse or polysyllabic are they eggheads?

I'm not exactly talking about stereotyping, giving a character what they are commonly supposed to have, but can a descriptive part give a character unexpected or even unwanted traits?

Gauche

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Can a simple hair colour make a character that different?

The redhead across the room drilled into my brain with her gaze,

but,

The ginger girl across the room winked brazenly,

whilst,

The flame haired girl pinned me to the wall with her eyes.

Are there any other descriptives or even body parts that make a character only act in a particular manner? If you give them big feet do they have to be clumsy or with small; trip lightly on their toes?

If they use short words are they terse or polysyllabic are they eggheads?

I'm not exactly talking about stereotyping, giving a character what they are commonly supposed to have, but can a descriptive part give a character unexpected or even unwanted traits?

Gauche

38-DDD's can give her a bad back.

 

[gauchecritic]

Re: Re: What is the difference between Red, ginger and flame-haired.

38-DDD's can give her a bad back.

Well it's not bad from where I'm standing.

Oh come on. This is a serious writerly thread. Answer the question.

Gauche

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I think it's HOW you use the descriptives, large feet needn't be clumsy , nor does a blonde have to be stupid.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I don't see that any particular trait boxes you, as author into adding a complimentary or expected trait. The blonde bomb shell canhave a phd in astrophysics. The six foot two muscle woman who works on cars all day long can be a total bottom.

That said, if you open a story without a solid grasp of a character and in your description give her a tatto that says born to be a bitch, she may very well develop along set lines afterwards. You aren't locked into anything, but it tends to snoball as you get farther into the story and one trait set builds off another.

A red head need not be tempsetuous, but if you describe her as flame haird, you will cause a tab bit of confusion if she is a house mouse.

-Colly

 

[CharleyH]

"Can a simple hair colour make a character that different?"

In comparing the simple descriptions you've given, it does make a difference, and even inserting ginger girl instead of "redhead across the room drilled into my brain with her gaze" gives me a different impression, not based on stereotype, but based on word choice, association and meaning. Red is passionate, quick and hot to me, ginger is softer, lingering, possibley with a hidden bite.

However, in a longer paragraph, giving more context or description of how the two act, I can imagine having alternate perceptions of either a redhead or ginger haired girl.

Are there any other descriptives or even body parts that make a character only act in a particular manner? If you give them big feet do they have to be clumsy or with small; trip lightly on their toes?"

Alone, perhaps a body description would stimulate an image. Waifish, robust, rubanesque, stocky, all give me an immediate assumption about the character, and yet a character could well be an agressive and domineering woman with a waifish figure.

Use of short words makes a character sound abrupt in my opinion, but it depends on the words whether or not the person sounds like an egghead. On the otherhand, short words in a description would lead me to believe that the action was fast, possibly a quick fight scene, or quicky sex scene. Alternately, a lot of S's, P's, B's, M's in a description can also give a sense of slowness, sensuality, building passion or pause.

I think that if there are not other descriptors surrounding the redhead, for example, then sure, yes, I believe it can give a character unexpected or even unwanted traits. Narrowing your description, making the traits of the redhead more intellectual say, will lead the reader away from the most common perception of the redhead. In my humble opinion.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

You had to go back and pick at your post didn't you? Damn I hate when you make sense.



I secretly worship you.

 

[Liar]

I think I see what you're aiming at, Gauche. But giving a character a trait that goes with the preconception of a certain look demands common ground on what that preconception is. Your picture of a generic redhead character is probably different than mine.


I did this little experiment:

The ginger girl across the room drilled into my brain with her gaze,

The flame haired girl across the room winked brazenly,

The redhead pinned me to the wall with her eyes.

The switching of hair colors (Or 'tone of voice' when describing them. Aren't they all the same one, but with different names?) did very little for how I pictured the girls. But instead the rest of those sentences colored the character, and gave me new associations to the words "ginger girl" that I immediately bought into.

#L

 

[dr_mabeuse]

What Charley said. The words we choose to describe something or someone have their own associations, and we make use of those associations (if we're any good) to build up a feel for that character or item.

Personally, I can't think of any physical attributes that would absolutely dictate what a character's like. As Colly said, lots of times it's fun to play against stereotype and character expectations. Fifty years ago, if you wanted to make it clear that a female character (in the movies at least) wasn't a love interest, you put her in glasses. These days a lot of my heroines wear glasses, because I think glasses are sexy on a woman.

---dr.M.

 

[seasparks]

A description of the female lead from an upcoming story of mine



"Hair the color of iron in a blacksmith's forge.

Eyes the shade of green that emeralds strive for but never attain, skin as flawless as that of Aphrodite.

Her face was perfectly symmetrical atop a body seemingly designed to drive men mad with desire by her mere presence."

(yes I know it needs editing)



But then I've always been partial to redheads.

It is the context of the story that drives how the person is described.

Later in the story the female lead is referred to as a flame haired vixen, and in another place as a redheaded wench.

Different scenes, different views of the same woman.

 

[mlyn]

Speaking as a redhead...

The three colors essentially describe a slightly different color of red hair. For example-
Ginger makes me think of the bright, orange color one associates with lots of freckles and the color of Lucy's hair in her later shows.

Flame-haired is slightly darker, but by using the word flame you set up for something sexy. I doubt tho you'd ever read this: "He was a flame-haired stud." Altho technically it could be considered the orange color, but I think most people associate it with auburn to dark auburn hair.

The other thing is that in the word ginger, I think of a child, tho I'm not sure why.

Red-haired can be anything, anyone. I do think that red-headed sounds slightly different. Perhaps when it comes time to name the color of a characters hair, list all the possibilities first.
i.e. carrot, ginger, strawberry blonde, flame haired, redhead, titian, mahogany, copper.

also: blonde, dishwater, golden, flaxen, cornsilk, and I've run out of ideas already. I need to be in front of the Loreal hair color counter!

Just my 2 "copper" pennies.
Mlyn

 

[Guest]

I don’t think just one or two particular physical or personal traits gives a character much more than those alone unless perhaps one is writing something in a particular context that would imply more (e.g., a historical narrative, a social commentary). Obviously if you’re going to give a character certain stereotypical traits and then make them contrary to those, the point is something else. As for the variety or nuance of words used to describe hair or eye colour it might be a matter of sound and context within the phrase or sentence that signifies more than meets the reader’s eye, but I wouldn’t get hung up on it past poetics. So, my answer is nyet, hair colour won’t make much difference in itself, even blond or red.

As for the language a character uses in dialogue—that’s another thing entirely. One can be terse and polysyllabic, or polysyllabic and dim, or stuttering and brilliant, etc. It’s not just vocabulary that gives a character a certain quality but their phrasing and syntax, and let’s not forget wit (or ryeness, irony, pretentiousness, etc.) Combine that with what or who they are responding to and you have another layer of a persona.

Tell me if you were asking more than this, Gauche; I found your query rather too simple this time.

Perdita

 

[gauchecritic]

Tell me if you were asking more than this, Gauche; I found your query rather too simple this time.

Perdita

Thanks to all for anwering. But,

Yes, caught out in asking a question that has been on my mind for some time and using the wrong words for it. So I'm still not sure if I can clarify what I mean, but I'll try.

I suppose the concensus to the original question is that it's all a matter of context. Let me try again.

What I failed to point out was that redhead, ginger and flame haired were all the same colour to me but affected the way I described their gaze. As Liar saw.

Then Seasparks came upon the same thing from the other end, if you want them to be different whilst maintaining the colour then you call it by a different name.

Even if, as Mab and Charley said, the first impression gives one picture, whilst you have that picture you can still change the character later by giving the colour a different name.

So, and this may have been answered already and I'm not just quick enough to see it:

Can the simple act of naming a colour cause us to change a character without volition.

eg A mousy strawberry blonde becoming a flame-haired femme-fatale when that was never your intention as the author.

Do you spot these things and correct them or do you allow your sub-conscious to change your plot without knowing how or why?

Examples would be nice and as I tried to say before it doesn't necessarily have to be hair colour. Maybe their job, or husband's height, or trousers instead of a skirt.

Gauche

 

[mlyn]

Can the simple act of naming a colour cause us to change a character without volition

Can the simple act of naming a colour cause us to change a character without volition? (Sorry I didn't the quote thing)

Nonetheless, I think I understand what you are saying. By using a particular descriptive word, or phrase, will that change your character?

I guess it depends on how you form your characters. If it is slapdash, on the fly, then I think that is possible. You are writing and need a new character- she can be a flame-haired sea witch, or ginger-haired poppet.

I think it boils down to how you write. Do you have an idea, a plot, and put into that characters that will react in the way you want your plot to develop? Or do you have characters, who are formed in your mind with their personality and looks, and then put a story around them?

Above all the one thing I hate is when a character suddenly does something totally out of their "character" from what has already been established thru previous situations and so on. (i.e. on tv, they are constantly changing a character to get better ratings. that is such BS.)

So I guess it is true that if I'm starting from scratch, then certain descriptive words will help me form this heroine's personality.

Thanks. mlyn

 

[Just-Legal]

Re: Re: What is the difference between Red, ginger and flame-haired.

38-DDD's can give her a bad back.

Colly, I have 38 E's and they're not THAT bad...

Edited to add : And I agree with what Charley said too!

 

[RavenSpirit2k4]

Just another note. I have big feet, but people have commented to me several times that I walk almost on tip toe and have a very light step.

 

[CharleyH]

What I failed to point out was that redhead, ginger and flame haired were all the same colour to me but affected the way I described their gaze. As Liar saw.

Can the simple act of naming a colour cause us to change a character without volition.

eg A mousy strawberry blonde becoming a flame-haired femme-fatale when that was never your intention as the author.

Not sure if I am understanding the question, but I'll give it a try.

The redhead, ginger and flame haired girl. This sentance alone suggests to me there are three different girls, although redhead, and flame haired are more closely linked. Ginger doesn't belong to me because when I think of ginger, I think of the food, and the spice, and the spice is far from red. So ginger girl, alone, does not and will never give me an impression of a femme-fatale without a surrounding context.

Can how you as a writer change your perspective, and therefore the readers perspective of the same character with a simple observation of hair colour etc.? Intentionally easy. Without intention? The implication of flame haired leans immediately toward the concept of a hot, sultry, sexy woman. Ginger and redhead do not give me that impression, but then that's because you have used a noun object 'flame' in the first that narrows the concept of 'red' and implies characteristics that red and ginger do not.

I did not see the colour of their hair having anything to do with their gaze in your first query.

The redhead across the room drilled into my brain with her gaze,but, The ginger girl across the room winked brazenly,

My impression is the redhead seems powerful and aloof because of the words drilled and gazed.

The ginger girl is bold, but looking for something from you, with the word wink, possibly sex. Alone the colours give an impression of the woman, but still its the words surrounding that speak to their act of 'looking' or to yours upon them.

Do you spot these things and correct them or do you allow your sub-conscious to change your plot without knowing how or why?

If I do not want the character to evolve from one thing to another, then I would correct any stray description if it affects the character in a drastic way. I have never had to do that, so I cannot provide an example. On the other hand, if your subconscious is directing you somewhere that you aren't sure of yet, then let it happen and see where it goes, obviously there is something in your mind that needs to come out. You can always go back and change it later.

And with this I depart because I'm not certain if I am speaking to the question at hand.

 

[trendyredhead]

I'd actually structure the description slightly different:

She stared at me from across the room, her red hair alive with the reflections of the roaring blaze she stood beside.


But that's just me....

 

[oggbashan]

Leave it to the reader's imagination

I try to avoid physical descriptions of my characters so that they can be whatever is the reader's favourite fantasy. I am more interested in the interplay between people and their characters.

If I say a character is blonde or brunette then I am limiting the reader's imagination.

Of course it may just be rationalisation. I'm not good at descriptions.

Og

 

[Guest]

Now I am not quite understanding you (again), Gauche. You seem to have caught yourself doing something so that it made an impression and caused you to ponder the thing, but I feel as if a layer (or two) is missing (of your thinking process). It seems to me you chose a colour of redhead that may or may not have changed your character. Did you discover this the next day or week, and then wonder what happened, or in the moment you typed out that colour? I’m only curious, and also pointing out how complex is the process of writing.

Me? I know that I am always writing from at least two consciousnesses, the one awake, alert and doing the typing, and the one from which I dream (for lack of a better definition). Then there’s the one that observes it all, the aware self of my self-aware self. Follow me?

So, I may have a character and her main attributes in mind as I write, but of course as I worry the words something (a colour, clothing, stance, history) might come out of the proverbial blue and I have to decide whether it fits or not. If I don’t take note of this something as I actually write it, most certainly I will in the rewrite. Then I might respond, “Where the fuck did that come from?” and go from there. I think that’s about as close as I come to not knowing what I’m doing. But ask me about the same text in a year and I’ll give you a different answer.

It seems to me your use of “without volition” is the crux of your query. I think I’d need to know more what you mean by that. Knowing your writing as I do I can’t quite imagine what would come from your fingertips without your volition.

I have to stop now or I may confuse myself. I like that you make me think like this.

Perdita

 

[snooper]

OK - here's my take:

RED comes out of a bottle and is very bright.
GINGER is quite pale and often accompanied by fair skin and freckles.
FLAME I don't know how to do on the screen because it is a lot of different colours, darker than ginger and somehow glowing and changing as she moves her head.

 

[Clare Quilty]

The three colors essentially describe a slightly different color of red hair.

"Ginger girl" refers to a White girl with red hair?

That description made me envision a Puerto Rican, Chicana, Chaldean or a woman of some other ethnicity comprising brown people--ginger being brown and all. I suppose in much western literature there is a presupposition that all characters are White unless explicitly stated to be otherwise--descriptions notwithstanding.

 

[SnoopDog]

I wish I could tell whether I'm a red-head, a ginger haired or flame-haired guy.

Snoopy

 

[snooper]

I wish I could tell whether I'm a red-head, a ginger haired or flame-haired guy.

Snoopy

If you smell smoke after sex, you're flame-haired.

 

[SnoopDog]

If you smell smoke after sex, you're flame-haired.

Lol from Snoo to snoo

Snoo