What if Diversity Trainings Are Doing More Harm Than Good? by Jesse Singal

[JohnEngelman]

The New York Times, Opinion Essay, January 17, 2023

[Diversity, equity, and inclusion] D.E.I. trainings are designed to help organizations become more welcoming to members of traditionally marginalized groups. Advocates make bold promises: Diversity workshops can foster better inter group relations, improve the retention of minority employees, close recruitment gaps and so on. The only problem? There’s little evidence that many of these initiatives work. And the specific type of diversity training that is currently in vogue — mandatory trainings that blame dominant groups for D.E.I. problems — may well have a net-negative effect on the outcomes managers claim to care about...

Though diversity trainings have been around in one form or another since at least the 1960s, few of them are ever subjected to rigorous evaluation, and those that are mostly appear to have little or no positive long-term effects...

Dr. Dobbin and Dr. Kalev warn that diversity trainings that are mandatory, or that threaten dominant groups’ sense of belonging or make them feel blamed, may elicit negative backlash or exacerbate pre-existing biases...

Just ask employees at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of African American History and Culture, which had to issue an apology after it posted an Okunesque graphic that presented rational thought, hard work and “emphasis on scientific method” as attributes of “white culture.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/17/opinion/dei-trainings-effective.html

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Diversity training should be aimed at blacks, rather than whites. Blacks should be told that inclusion is an achievement, rather than an entitlement, and that if they want to be accepted by whites, on the job and generally, it will be necessary for them to behave and perform as well as whites.

 

[Chobham]

DEI, or DIE as I think it should be referred to, is just another hoax perpetrated on the public by a bunch of academic egg heads that have virtually no idea how the real world works.

 

[ll74]

The right has been saying this for decades.

They aren't causing more harm than good..unless you believe in all the victimhood that the right cries about. They don't like not being able to be a complete asshole everywhere they go.

 

[JohnEngelman]

The right has been saying this for decades.

They aren't causing more harm than good..unless you believe in all the victimhood that the right cries about. They don't like not being able to be a complete asshole everywhere they go.

The New York Times article I exerted from said that diversity training usually does more harm than good because it tells whites that we have an obligation to accept blacks who do not perform and behave well. It is unnecessary to tell us to accept Orientals. We call them "the model minority."

 

[ll74]

The New York Times article I exerted from said that diversity training usually does more harm than good because it tells whites that we have an obligation to accept blacks who do not perform and behave well. It is unnecessary to tell us to accept Orientals. We call them "the model minority."

Yes, I read your post.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Having attended plenty of DEI type training sessions both in person and online during my days in corporate America, I don’t think they are harmful or helpful. They’re basically time wasters designed to make senior executives and board members feel virtuous while providing a degree of potential insulation from lawsuits. Attendees sleep through them and privately snicker and poke fun at some of the asinine material presented in these sessions.

 

[Rightguide]

Having attended plenty of DEI type training sessions both in person and online during my days in corporate America, I don’t think they are harmful or helpful. They’re basically time wasters designed to make senior executives and board members feel virtuous while providing a degree of potential insulation from lawsuits. Attendees sleep through them and privately snicker and poke fun at some of the asinine material presented in these sessions.

As they should.

 

[YDB95]

The New York Times article I exerted from said that diversity training usually does more harm than good because it tells whites that we have an obligation to accept blacks who do not perform and behave well.

Which doesn't necessarily make that even remotely true. For decades, people like you have been characterizing any effort to address racism the way you've done here, so I wouldn't assume it's really the case just because the NYT says so.

It is unnecessary to tell us to accept Orientals. We call them "the model minority."

We do if we're racists, anyway. (And you might try asking some Asians if they always feel "accepted" in the workplace. Spoiler alert: they don't.)

 

[dkovic77]

The New York Times article I exerted from said that diversity training usually does more harm than good because it tells whites that we have an obligation to accept blacks who do not perform and behave well. It is unnecessary to tell us to accept Orientals. We call them "the model minority."

The opinion piece? Far from an article.

 

[JohnEngelman]

We do if we're racists, anyway. (And you might try asking some Asians if they always feel "accepted" in the workplace. Spoiler alert: they don't.)

Some people resent Orientals because they tend to be intelligent, successful, and prosperous. That is different from the reasons blacks are frequently not accepted.

 

[ll74]

Some people resent Orientals because they tend to be intelligent, successful, and prosperous. That is different from the reasons blacks are frequently not accepted.

You had to retake the training more than once, I'm guessing.

 

[JohnEngelman]

The opinion piece? Far from an article.

The factual assertions it makes are accurate.

 

[JohnEngelman]

You had to retake the training more than once, I'm guessing.

Fortunately, I never had to take the training. I would have asked questions the trainer would not have liked answering.

I did sit through a lecture on sexual harassment once. I approved of what the trainer told us not to do, because I have always treated women with courtesy and respect.

 

[ll74]

Fortunately, I never had to take the training. I would have asked questions the trainer would not have liked answering.

I did sit through a lecture on sexual harassment once. I approved of what the trainer told us not to do, because I have always treated women with courtesy and respect.

The trainer would've politely told you to "fuck off racist"......without actually saying the words....I'm sure it would be entertaining.

 

[JohnEngelman]

The trainer would've politely told you to "fuck off racist"......without actually saying the words....I'm sure it would be entertaining.

That is all you have to say to me, isn't it? You cannot argue that the civil rights legislation, the War on Poverty, Head Start, and No Child Left Behind have improved the behavior and performance of most blacks, because even you know that this has not happened.

 

[ll74]

That is all you have to say to me, isn't it? You cannot argue that the civil rights legislation, the War on Poverty, Head Start, and No Child Left Behind have improved the behavior and performance of most blacks, because even you know that this has not happened.

I'm not arguing whether your racism is warranted....no. it's not.

 

[YDB95]

That is all you have to say to me, isn't it? You cannot argue that the civil rights legislation, the War on Poverty, Head Start, and No Child Left Behind have improved the behavior and performance of most blacks, because even you know that this has not happened.

They were never intended to improve Blacks' behavior. They also weren't designed to directly improve their performance, only to improve their opportunities to do so. And as usual, you're ignoring the fact that people like you have been actively trying to obstruct those reforms from square one.

 

[TrailerHitch]

I don't have to accept any person or any group if they do not match up to the expectations of the group to which they wish to be included. Yes its that simple. It isn't a race issue at all its an entitlement issue. You should never be automatically included because of who you are versus what you have accomplished that makes you a viable member of the group.

 

[JohnEngelman]

They were never intended to improve Blacks' behavior. They also weren't designed to directly improve their performance, only to improve their opportunities to do so. And as usual, you're ignoring the fact that people like you have been actively trying to obstruct those reforms from square one.

I supported the civil rights movement as a child, a teenager, and a young adult. Now I am disappointed with the response of many blacks to the opportunities that have opened to them.

Since 1963 black crime rates have increased. Black illegitimacy rates have increased dramatically. Black academic performance has improved little, despite Head Start and No Child Left Behind. It was not supposed to be this way.

Those who continue to blame white racism for black social pathology cannot explain the increase in black social pathology since 1963.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

The New York Times article I exerted from said that diversity training usually does more harm than good because it tells whites that we have an obligation to accept blacks who do not perform and behave well. It is unnecessary to tell us to accept Orientals. We call them "the model minority."

The New York Times Opinion essay from which you excerpted…

 

[JohnEngelman]

The New York Times Opinion essay from which you excerpted…

The opinion piece makes accurate factual assertions. It should be obvious that race relations are not improved by telling whites that it is racist for them to expect blacks to behave and perform as well as whites.

 

[ll74]

The opinion piece makes accurate factual assertions. It should be obvious that race relations are not improved by telling whites that it is racist for them to expect blacks to behave and perform as well as whites.

That's not at all what the training teaches.

And by your own admission, you've never taken any, so stfu on what you think is taught.

 

[JohnEngelman]

That's not at all what the training teaches.

And by your own admission, you've never taken any, so stfu on what you think is taught.

I have read Robin DiAngelo's book, White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism. She is a professional diversity trainer.

 

[ll74]

I have read Robin DiAngelo's book, White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism. She is a professional diversity trainer.

Lol....gotcha .

 

[YDB95]

I supported the civil rights movement as a child, a teenager, and a young adult. Now I am disappointed with the response of many blacks to the opportunities that have opened to them.

It is no Black person's responsibility to live up to your expectations.

Since 1963 black crime rates have increased.

As have white crime rates

Black illegitimacy rates have increased dramatically.

Rates of reported Black illegitimacy have, because having babies out of wedlock no longer carries the potentially life-altering stigma that it used to.

Black academic performance has improved little, despite Head Start and No Child Left Behind. It was not supposed to be this way.

Head Start and NCLB are not the only things that happened in the interim, ergo you can't blame them alone.

Those who continue to blame white racism for black social pathology cannot explain the increase in black social pathology since 1963.

We can and we have, you just chose to ignore it because it doesn't fit with what you want to believe.

I have read Robin DiAngelo's book, White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism. She is a professional diversity trainer.

I can't comment on that book because I haven't read it, but I do know that you have a long history of misconstruing other people's words as what you want them to mean rather than what they really mean (most recently that Jesse Jackson quote you're always throwing around, which is really decrying the attitude you think it endorses). I'm betting your reaction to D'Angelo's book is the same.