What if a woman fakes her age and is a minor??

[Shy Tall Guy]

Okay, legal beagles, GuyJD brought up a point I have been wondering about. As you know, I have met a very nice 20 year old woman on this board and I am infatuated with her. I think in some respects she has the maturity of someone in her mid twenties, in other respects she is more mature than a woman I know who is 30 years old. So I am satisfied she can and will make informed decisions about her future as an adult.

I trust and believe her when she tells me she is twenty - that is not the issue here - I just want to make clear that I am not questioning her veracity, okay?

What is the issue, is something that GuyJD brought up in another thread:

I once had an online friend who lied to me when we began communicating online. She told me that she was 17 (making 18), at the time, and we chatted for a couple of years.

<snip>

While I was under the impression that she was 19, she was actually 15 making 16. Needless to say, I was shocked and ended communication.

<snip>

The fact is, IT HAPPENS.

Okay, it can happen. Everyone here on this board has to assert they are 18 or older.

1) How do we older people (late 20s, 30s and so on) know these people are of an age where they can legally give consent? Anybody can claim to be 18 or older, and some can present a front that can fool us (see above).

2) State consent ages are irrelevant unless that person lives inside the same state you do; the Mann act declares that crossing a state border to have sex with a person under 18 is a federal felony. Same goes for bringing the minor across the border. I know there are some states that also have similar laws.

Someone can fool you. They can get false ID. If we get on a plane to go see our true love, we have sex, and they then turn out to be 16-17, and the parents find out and press charges, what defense do we have?

I would guess we are going to jail regardless - at least until arraigned. How can this be prevented?

I have one idea:

If a person is living outside of their parental home, that is generally a good indicator that they are no longer a minor. This can be hard because a lot of people age 18 and older live with their parents, off and on sometimes, into their twenties as needed. I lived with my parents my last year of college because I had run out of money for everything except college tuition, books and gas - and I was 30 years old.

So, what are your opinions? Online a person can be anybody. We've apparently had men claiming to be women - is it so hard for a 16 year old to claim to be 21???

 

[KillerMuffin]

No, it's not hard for them to do it all in real life or online. There are 15 year old girls out there who can pass for 19 or 20 with the right make up. The law states that if the person is under the age of consent then you are committing statuatory rape no matter what the minor told you. At least in this state and in real life. Online is another matter completely. That is a good question.

 

[Gilly Bean]

An online persona can be anything they want it to be. That you won't get around. However, when a 16 year old claims to be 21, if you get to know the person, you will likely be able to start telling from bits of what is said. if you are not looking for it, then you might not notice. However, notice she (or he) only comes online during the afternoons? Maybe they have to be logged off by 11 each night. Maybe they slipped and said something about a class that just doesn't sound like a college one.

Again, though, if you aren't really looking for it, and they are not being overly ovbious, ask for ID if the person looks young. I don't care how well you think you know someone on line. It is almost always a completly different experiance in real life. Meet thm, date em if you want, but ask them flat out to see a liscence if you think for even a moment, that the person is underage. It's not worth going to jail over when a 15 year olds parents sue. Trust me, the whole: But I thought he/she was 18!, doesn't hold up in court.

 

[celiaKitten]

Okay, legal beagles, GuyJD brought up a point I have been wondering about. As you know, I have met a very nice 20 year old woman on this board and I am infatuated with her. I think in some respects she has the maturity of someone in her mid twenties, in other respects she is more mature than a woman I know who is 30 years old. So I am satisfied she can and will make informed decisions about her future as an adult.

I trust and believe her when she tells me she is twenty - that is not the issue here - I just want to make clear that I am not questioning her veracity, okay?

Well that's good to hear..

Does this mean I still have to fax my birth certificate??

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: Re: What if a woman fakes her age and is a minor??

Well that's good to hear..

Does this mean I still have to fax my birth certificate??

Just bring it with you - oh, and can you bring two witnesses, your college transcripts and two pieces of photo ID??

 

[celiaKitten]

Re: Re: Re: What if a woman fakes her age and is a minor??

Just bring it with you - oh, and can you bring two witnesses, your college transcripts and two pieces of photo ID??

1. my witnesses would be my sister and brother-in-law (and frankly I wouldn't want them at our first meeting!!)

2. heh - you ain't lookin at my grades babe

3. Umm - yeah I can do that one

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

However, notice she (or he) only comes online during the afternoons? Maybe they have to be logged off by 11 each night.

When I am working I qualify for those conditions and I am way past the age of majority.

Sure there are a number of ways to reassure yourself, but is there a way to know? Photos don't always help - look at the recent threads where we have had people doubted for their age and they are not minors. ID can be faked, especially if copies are sent online.

 

[Thomas Paine]

In a case of statutory rape, the only thing that matters is the fact of the girl's age; anything she may have said or done is irrelevant. Whatever the statutory age in a particular state, the law deems that someone under that age is legally incapable of giving consent to sex.

 

[p_p_man]

When I first came to Lit...

Copied from Shy Tall Guy's post:

So, what are your opinions? Online a person can be anybody. We've apparently had men claiming to be women - is it so hard for a 16 year old to claim to be 21???


When I first came to Lit I struck up an IM contact with a girl who e-mailed me about one of my stories. She claimed she was 22 but it didn't take long for too many "Gosh's" and "WOW's" to creep into her conversation. Plus she couldn't keep up her initial air of maturity.

The only thing I think she was truthful about is when I asked her age she said 16.

 

[Gilly Bean]

Photos don't always help - look at the recent threads where we have had people doubted for their age and they are not minors. ID can be faked, especially if copies are sent online.

I meant more along the lines of if they were to ever meet IRL, actually. On-line, hell, you can be telling them you are your older sisters best friend, for all they know.

 

[Pokerman]

Did this happen to baseball player Luis Polonia? Late 80s/Early 90s. Met a girl in a bar, assumed she was 21+ because SHE WAS IN A BAR....had sex, turned out she was 17, she told her parents, he was charged with statutory rape...

 

[cymbidia]

People lie, steal your heart, rob you of your illusions - and the net makes it very easy for them to do that.

Your choices are:
(1) be suspicious of everyone until it's proved beyond doubt that they are who they claim to be
(2) trust everyone until they're proven to be a liar
(3) be alert for suspicious-sounding words, phrases, incidents from their lives.

If you never actually meet the person or talk to them on the phone, have you broken any laws if you're only doing c-sex in rt online sitations with what turns out to be a minor? If they've assured you that they are of age, and if you can prove that (retaining such email would be prudent, i think), could you be held accountable at all for that kind of contact with a minor?

If, however, you meet the person irl, and if that person is under the age of 18, and if you engage in any sexual touching at all with them, then you've broken FEDERAL laws and your ass could be grass - and fittingly.

If you have even the barest suspicion that the new and quite young love of your life is anywhere near the age of, oh, 20 or 22 or something, it would be prudent to do whatever you needed to do to be totally and unambiguously sure s/he is OVER 18 years old BEFORE you actually meet.

If you don't, well, you're just stupid and can look forward to this:
Go to jail.
Go directly to jail.
Do not pass GO.
Do not have a "rest of your life".

You'll do jail time.
Then you'll be labelled a sexual predator for the rest of your life.
Anywhere you move, mothers and fathers, will march in the street with your face on picket signs to protest your moving into the neighborhood.
Any new place you go, you'll have to register with the police when you get there, as a convicted sex offender.

Is any piece of ass... oh, excuse me... romantic love and mutually desireable sexual exploration worth that kinda grief for the rest of your life?

 

[MysticSwing]

Did this happen to baseball player Luis Polonia? Late 80s/Early 90s. Met a girl in a bar, assumed she was 21+ because SHE WAS IN A BAR....had sex, turned out she was 17, she told her parents, he was charged with statutory rape...

This is an argument that my husband and I have had more than once. He says it's bullshit that these underage girls get away with screaming "rape" after they were in a bar drinking, and end up going home with some guy and having sex. (Because most men would assume that they were at least 21 seeing as they were drinking in a bar.)

While on one hand I agree, it is bullshit because you know these girls know exactly what they're doing. BUT, the simple fact is they won't go to jail for lying, YOU'LL go to jail for screwing a minor!

And on the other hand, my argument is - Shouldn't you get to know these "women" a little better? Spend a little more time than an hour or two flirting at some bar before you take them home, fuck them, and THEN find out that they're only a minor??? (I know, I know... Easier said than done when in the "heat of the moment"... I just personally think that people should think a little before they go hopping into bed with just anyone.)

~~Mystic

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

And on the other hand, my argument is - Shouldn't you get to know these "women" a little better? Spend a little more time than an hour or two flirting at some bar before you take them home, fuck them, and THEN find out that they're only a minor???

Well I for one don't go to bars to pick up women - I come to porn sites instead.

Seriously, I don't engage in casual sex - I have to really know a person well before having sex with them, and moreover, I have to have strong feelings for them too.

But in today's world where you can meet someone online, get to know them really well online over period of time, and travel a thousand miles to see them - it can be really tempting to have sex with them while you are there. You know them, you maybe love them once you get to meet them, yet you may not ge tto meet their parents or siblings for whatever reasons.

If minors can't give consent, and the Mann act defines someone under 18 as a minor, yet minors can fake ID, and can appear as being of legal age, and that is not a defense in court, what can a person do? Run a background check?

Yes there have been some decent suggestions in this regard, but nothing that is a guarantee against fakery or prosecution.

 

[MysticSwing]

Well I for one don't go to bars to pick up women - I come to porn sites instead.

Seriously, I don't engage in casual sex - I have to really know a person well before having sex with them, and moreover, I have to have strong feelings for them too.

But in today's world where you can meet someone online, get to know them really well online over period of time, and travel a thousand miles to see them - it can be really tempting to have sex with them while you are there. You know them, you maybe love them once you get to meet them, yet you may not ge tto meet their parents or siblings for whatever reasons.

If minors can't give consent, and the Mann act defines someone under 18 as a minor, yet minors can fake ID, and can appear as being of legal age, and that is not a defense in court, what can a person do? Run a background check?

Yes there have been some decent suggestions in this regard, but nothing that is a guarantee against fakery or prosecution.

I see what you're saying. I was speaking more along the lines of the casual sex/bar scene.

When it comes to talking about the "Online" experience, we're talking about a whole new ball game. I do believe that you can meet someone online and get to know this person through email, chat, phone calls, whatever. I believe you can even fall madly in love with someone online. Can you guarantee this person is over the age of 18? Nope. That's a chance one takes when meeting potential lovers online. (Or on porn sites ) The best one can do is trust their better judgement, I guess. (And keep their fingers crossed that they don't wind up in jail for statuatory rape.)

~~Mystic

 

[seXieleXie]

tsg,
you're right, there is no way to tell absolutely. there simply isn't. if you were to... oh i don't know, ask her parents... you'd probably find out the girl's age with a great degree of reliability...but... well obviously that's not a very inviting idea. as a female i have always been more cautious about getting my lovers in trouble than they have... after all i wanted to keep having sex wi.... um... i wanted to stay in the relationship
anyway, that question was slightly depressing but it did bring up a good point.

 

[Mellon Collie]

However, when a 16 year old claims to be 21, if you get to know the person, you will likely be able to start telling from bits of what is said. if you are not looking for it, then you might not notice. However, notice she (or he) only comes online during the afternoons? Maybe they have to be logged off by 11 each night.

I really don't think that would be a good way to judge a person's age. I get offline every night by ten at the absolute latest just so I have time to do any reading or work for school that needs to be done and I don't waste the night away online, I certainly don't think that should make someone be suspicious of my age.

 

[seXieleXie]

you're actually 14, aren't you mellon collie?
just kidding!

 

[Mellon Collie]

you're actually 14, aren't you mellon collie?
just kidding!

Oh No, you caught me!

Maybe I can ask my mommy to let me go online later so I can continue my lie.

 

[GuyJD]

As I see it, any (if not every) law enforcement agency would arrest an individual who communicates in a sexual manner with a juvenile (anyone under the age of 18). However, if that individual has a good enough attorney, it can be proven that the individual was totally unaware of the "juvie's" true age. Otherwise, he/she would have to spend a little time in the "big house" and forever register as a sex offender.
After the girl confessed her real age to me, she told me "I don't mind about our age difference. I won't tell anyone." Of course, that was irrelevant and I explained to her that it was no way possible for us to continue our online friendship, due to her deceit.

 

[GuyJD]

Oh No, you caught me!

Maybe I can ask my mommy to let me go online later so I can continue my lie.

WOW Mellon, you write like you're 21. Wanna chat? LOL

 

[Thomas Paine]

If minors can't give consent, and the Mann act defines someone under 18 as a minor, yet minors can fake ID, and can appear as being of legal age, and that is not a defense in court, what can a person do? Run a background check?

Admittedly, you could try to defend yourself against a statutory rape charge by proving that the minor had produced identification that showed she was of legal age. However, when the prosecutor waltzes your teenage sweetie into court with no make-up, wearing pigtails and knee-socks, looking every bit of 12, I wouldn't make book on your chances.

What do you do? Don't play the game so close to the edge. Stick to women who can prove they've rented a car. You have to be 25 to do that...

 

[celiaKitten]

What do you do? Don't play the game so close to the edge. Stick to women who can prove they've rented a car. You have to be 25 to do that...

That leaves me out ....

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

As I see it, any (if not every) law enforcement agency would arrest an individual who communicates in a sexual manner with a juvenile (anyone under the age of 18).

On a tangent; I would think that if an LEO was to try to entrap someone, they would not do it by posing as a 18+ year old adult, and then claim that the adult should have known that the persona they were talking to was supposed to be a child. To ridiculous. It would seem that the same could be a defense for a person who was decieved by a minor that could be mistaken for someone 18 or older - but you would still wind up in jail and probably go to trial.

I like my earlier suggestion; do a background check; for a little bit of money, you can find out someone's true age. For women, that is probably a good thing to do anyway.

 

[celiaKitten]

I like my earlier suggestion; do a background check; for a little bit of money, you can find out someone's true age. For women, that is probably a good thing to do anyway.

Hmm, why don't you tell me how I can get a background check?? I .. um ... it's just a good thing to know .. no reason .. I swear!!