What I'd do - my battle plan.....

[Sparky Kronkite]

Considering -

We only really - do want the bad guys. They are entrenched. Unless we use diversionary tactics (which I'm sure we will) we don't have the element of surprise. We want to keep our casualties to a minimum. And, our economy sure could use a boost.

What do you do?

Let the enemy come to you.

I would locate the approximate geographical center of my enemy territor - and find the tallest mountain there. With a huge bunch of Marines (Air - then special ops leading the way) spear head toward that mountain. Useing Seabees and the Army Engineers I'd flatten the top of that mountain into an airstrip - this I beleive could be done in a week. In the second week I fortify that mountain into the largest firebase ever known to man. In the third week I'd ring it with razor wire and mine fields.

Eventually it would be manned by a large force of mixed, specialized US and world forces.

In essence, I will have created the biggest duck blind ever - and then I'd simply wait for them to rear their toweled heads. I'd pick them off - bit by bit - over a long time - as long as it would take - years - even forever. I'd go on safari with special forces. I'd use air and cannon. I'd make sure we we're protected from missle and air attacks, as well as ground attacks. I'd fly in all provisions. Forever and ever and ever.

(And that would be very good for our econmy right about now.)

This would be our message to them, the bad guys and the rest of the Arab world. To wit: "We don't want your stinking country, we don't want to convert you. We just want the bad guys. You can turn them over to us - or - we will hunt them down, one by one, as long as it takes - all we need is this rock here as home base - we'll supply ourselves with everything we need - for as long as it takes."

You see what a great idea that is? Conservative, yet radical at the same time. Our little "Embassy," against terrorism.

 

[shadowsource]

Hamburger Hill -

That's what they used to do in VietNam - send out troops to draw fire. It didn't work. I don't expect that we'll establish much of a ground presence there: The place is moving quickly toward a kind of Islamic Road Warrior.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

We did that. It was called West Berlin. And goddamn if it didn't work.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

No, no, no......

You guys are limiting your thoughts to past failures.

This would resemble nothing of past military plans.

There would never be "drawn fire" - simply to draw fire.

There would be no civilians of any kind within the walls of this plateaued military city.

In fact - unless attacked - or - exacting, very specific, intel regarding location of the enemy came to fore - there need not be a shot fired - at all.

It's conceivable - that months, years could go by without a shot fired or a man felled.

It's simply presence. A presence. A "patient" presence.

Just like duck hunting really. If no ducks are seen, if no ducks come your way - there are no ducks to shoot.

But if they do get seen - if they do wish to attack - they get blasted. And we only, ever go after them if, and only if - really good intel indicates that the bad dudes are vulnerable.

It's like nothing that has been done before - not in modern times anyway.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

And besides - what a better place?

What better strategic point of operation? Than to be there - staged and ready "if anything really gets serious."

I'm tired of taking 2/3 weeks to put our boys in place to take action.

I'm tellin' ya - I'd leave this thing - this fortified Embassy - in place until true peace happened.

If ever.

Hey? A flare up in Iran? We're there.

Momar gets upity? We're there.

Fuck'em. We'b be the new Sherieef in town - wearin' the badge of Freedom.

And remember - all we've takin' from them is one stinking hunk of useless rock.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

Do I sence a bunch of peace'nik pussies here?

I think maybe so.

This one is "totally different" from any was that has come before - at least as far as US history is concerned.

You can't compare it to Vietnam, or WWII, or the Soviet attempt to occupy the country where the bad dudes are based. It's totally different to any of them.

Sure, compare - but compare in futility. Apples and oranges.

And if you really analize my way - we will suffer hardly any casualties. And there will be nearly zero civilian casualiies.

My way is actually the safest way. Hopefully, only the bad guys will get hurt.

Any other way - except turning and doing nothing (which is not an option) will produce more US casualties AND most likely inocent civilian casualities too.

Any other acceptable way. Think about it.

 

[lavender]

 

[shadowsource]

Absolut-ly!

Your plan would piss off the Russians, the Chinese, the Pakistanis, the Afghanis, the Iranians, etc. It would be exactly what bin Laden wants us to do, impose further imperialism on the Islamic masses. Call me a peacenik - I just want to win in a sensible and long-lasting fashion that doesn't make more problems. My peacenik friends don't find my attitude at all comforting.

Sorry you and yours lost your jobs. That really sucks.

 

[OUTSIDER]

Kinda like the rock of Gibraltar

 

[Tabby432]

If we truly became the new sheriff in town, if we set up that kind of mission, we fuel their fire. We give them easier access to gaining hundreds if not thousands of supporters. Not only that but we just give them more reason to hate us and therefore more reason to attack our country.

Do you always have to make sense?

It's a great idea Sparky... you should run for office.

 

[Myrrdin]

I think the first target should be the Afghan Navy

 

[Problem Child]

Think about it.

I thought about it. I'm betting Don Rumsfeld won't be calling you for military advice anytime soon.

 

[Azwed]

It is not a terrible idea and might actually work. We are only holding a single mountain top. How pissy can they possible get? I had a similar idea, but my plan was to surround whatever mountain/area they were in and surround it. Just make a complete wall around it of mechanized infantry. Then use a couple of appache regiments to patrol the permeiter. I like Sparkys idea better. We take up less territory and will require less of a tropp prescence.

 

[lavender]

 

[Problem Child]

It is not a terrible idea and might actually work. We are only holding a single mountain top. How pissy can they possible get? I had a similar idea, but my plan was to surround whatever mountain/area they were in and surround it. Just make a complete wall around it of mechanized infantry. Then use a couple of appache regiments to patrol the permeiter. I like Sparkys idea better. We take up less territory and will require less of a tropp prescence.

You're kidding, right?

Let's outline a few of the drawbacks of Sparky's genius plan.

1) It's not only an open-ended commitment, it's a never-ending commitment. These fuckers are still holding us responsible for the crusades. THE CRUSADES, for God's sake. What was that, 1300 years ago? They hold a grudge. They don't give up. They've been at war for most of their existence, and really heavy at it for the last 20 years. As I see it, Sparky's plan has no real objective except to kill Afghani's and piss off most of the Muslim world. We can kill these bastards until the camels come home, for the next 50 years if we don't get bored with it, and they will still keep coming.

2) As I mentioned above, what's the point? I thought we were out to get the terrorists and the sponsors of terrorism. The people who throw themselves at our American-built tower of Babel aren't going to be OBL, abd his lieutenants, They are going to be the everyday Afghan willing to die for Allah. Meanwhile OBL and his ilk are planning the next attack on Boston or San Francisco.

3) It's a waste of money and military resources. Building a Come-get-me base in the middle of Afghanistan would cost bucks, to protect and support. Sure, we could support it, but why, since it's not going to acheive anything?

4) We have a serious public relations problem with the Islamic world. Personally, I really don't give a fuck, but I'm smart enough to know that the wise course of action is the one the administration is following: going after the people who did this without alienating the rest of the Muslim world any further. The perfect way to turn even those Muslims that sympathise with us against us is to plant a big fat fire base on their territory expressly as a giant FUCK YOU to them. I'd rather work quietly, with intelligence and precision, using small-scale night strikes to take out the ones we want and leave the rest alone.

6) It's not as safe as you think. We would have to move EVERYTHING in and out by air, and eventually we would lose aircraft. These guys have ground-to-air missiles, and in this scenario the entire Islamic world would be united against us and the arms would start to literally flood into Afghanistan from other Islamic countries to be used against us. It's a recipe for a quagmire.

7) I like having allies like Britain and Canada and others. If we pulled a dumbass Viet-Nam style stunt like this they would run from us like like scalded cats.

8) Why would we want to be so stupid as to put a large force on the ground in broad daylight for an extended period of time and make a huge target of ourselves when we already have an ally that hates the Taliban on the ground and ready to fight in the Northern aliance? All they need is some support from us and they are ready to go. They are already getting weapons from Iran and Russia as we speak. Let's let them go and do the job that everyone wants done- they are itching to do it. They want their country back, and we would be idiots not to help them do it.

9) Your idea of sending out special forces on raids is another recipe for disaster. Since we only have one giant base in the entire country, every single soldier in the Taliban knows exactly where it is, and as soon as a chopper takes off, night or day, to go out on a patrol, they will be tracked from lookouts on every mountaintop. Then all they need to do is shadow our guys on the ground and set up an ambush for us. The entire war with the Russians was nothing but one giant ambush. Same scenario here.
A much better alternative is to insert Green Beret A-teams, or Seal squads, (sure, even the Marines) at night, from different directions every time, from different neighboring counties every time. Much harder to track. Then they stay put and watch, for days or weeks, to make sure they're not being watched. Then they move out at night only and take care of business and get extracted by chopper again.

10) This whole plan which you say is original and revolutionary is nothing but hackeyed and worn out. Firebases were done in Viet Nam (that's all this is) and they were ambush heaven for the enemy. They knew exactly when we were coming and going and these guys will too. And firebase were just a dusting off of the castles of old...and the reason castles went out of style is they quit working after a while, just like all forms of defense do, eventually. The worst thing you can do in warfare is be predictable, and this reaks of routine and predictability.

11) This isn't thinking outside of the box at all. It's beating your head against the wall. It combines all of the best examples of making an unecessary target of yourself, motivating your enemy, and wasting your resources. If you really want to think outside of the box you need to use unconventional warfare. You need to attack their finances, weaken their morale, fuck with their psychology, let them fight amongst themselves and get their enemies to do your fighting for you. You need to strike fast, be mobile, and be deadly and invisible. You need to let them know who killed them, but not announce it to the world. The world will find out soon enough. You need to impress the fact that you are better than them, not just bigger and stronger.

Your plan does none of this.

12) I like my revenge silent and deadly. I look forward to turning on the TV one of these nights and hearing that 40 or 50 of the fuckers we're looking for were found dead in their camp. And nobody knows who did it, or how it got done. Just dead terrorist bodies laying around all mangled and torn up. And then a week or two later it happens again...and again. And while this is happening, you can see the morale drain out of the Taliban faces as they realize they are losing the war against the northern alliance, while we are sneaking into their camps at night and slaughtering them with no remorse and then disappearing into the darkness.

That's so much more satisfying than making an international ass of yourself.

 

[lavender]

You spoil everything!

 

[miles]

PC - You ARE the fucking man.

Just remember to minimize that mine shaft gap. Once it widens, we'll never close it.

 

[Problem Child]

Gracias.

I once dated a girl that had a mine-shaft gap. A chunk of two-by-four strapped to my ass cured that.

 

[Tabby432]

LOL

Now that's just nasty.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

Reply to PC's points - one by one.

1) Exactly. If they can hold a grudge for centuries - we can hold one for ions. And - it's a never ending business - good for the economy of today - good for the economy of tomorrow. And - we only hold onto one stinking worthless mountain. We are pretty much passive - not active. We are merely "reactive" and only then to hostile, terrorist related events. We simply don't kill Arabs. We don't attempt to convert anyone. We're just there. And again - only on a square couple of miles of worthless shit land. And if they are so pissed by a relatively passive presence on a worthless rock - so be it. They would be stupid. Our mere, collective (other freindly countries would occupy the same wothless rock with us) presence - "would in fact bring peace" to this area. The criminal element - which is all the Taliban is - a bunch of racist criminals, killing off any other tribes to obtain there farm land - would be quieted. Many lives would be saved. And all we have to do is be there.

2) As for this one - exactly again - I don't disagree. We would hope to stop terrorism in America by squashing the source in it's own home land. What has been done - has been done. Security has increased (as it should have been all along) and it will continue to increase. But sure - America will be hit on it's own soil again - there is ultimately no protection against these types of folks whether they be from the Mid-East, Europe, China or even from within - Tim McVeigh.

3) This one yer dead wrong on man. Our military has become weak. Thank Billy Boy for that one. Hell they won't even let us practice with real shit anymore. (I mean fuck these Peurto Rican assholes). We need "real practice with real bullets" and this provides the perfect vehicle for such. And again - the money is spent and the economy is fueled.

4) You speak of Public Relations but you seem to know nothing about the sceince. War is - fighting, finance and politics. Yer right about the "fuck you sign" but only if - that is the only part of the plan. Palm's would need to be greased, back would have to be scratched, candy bars handed out and the politicians would have to suck each other's dicks for all this to work. No fucking duh

6?) Sure we'd loose some folks but - far less than any other scenario - even the Special Forces only plan.

7)Again not if it's done right with all the politics and PR bells rung at the right time and right chime.

8) Oh I see? Let's let "them" kill each other. Brilliant! Very compasionate of you. We'll just watch from far off in the distance while they kill the guy that killed about 6K of our innocent people. Wow! Now that's justice for you.

9)Well of course this is not the only base knuckle head. A good military man never puts all his eggs in one basket.In this second paragraph here you describe nearly exactly what went on in Vietnam. You talk about taking forever. And looseing more people than we need to. I would only move men on "inside intel" most likely from infiltrated Northern Alliance folks or trators. Other than that - I would not move and all - we would wait - like I said - for ions.

10) This really isn't a Vietnam'like firebase at all - though with a quick glance it might appear as such. Come and go? Nope - wouldn't very much and then not on any predictable sched. Nearly everything would be airdropped and air extracted from very high above. Laser quided delivery systems from high overhead. Food, ammo and personel.

11) Target for what? Their best shit can be brought down very easily by our best shit before it even gets close. What are they gonna do rush us with AK's and shoulder fired missles? Oh? Maybe their crack air force will give it a whack.

12) I hope so too. But so far - yer dreamin' - they don't have a clue as to where the fucker is.

 

[WriterDom]

Good luck wintering over at 24,557 feet.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

We have......

Endless supplies of Sterno.

No problem.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

And as far as heat......

We'd have an equal number of women on our little "Freedom Mountain," and thus - heat.

Hell with the right couplings - broadcast over super powered loud speakers to the masses of prudish Arabs below - our love making would drive those dirty fucks batty.

Fuck'um with fucking! Make them eat porno. Destroy them!

 

[miles]

Our military has become weak. Thank Billy Boy for that one. Hell they won't even let us practice with real shit anymore. (I mean fuck these Peurto Rican assholes).

Gotta agree with Spark on this one. Billary did his level best to change the mission of the military. They are not a humanitarian
arm of the government and are supposed to blow things up and kill people.

They weren't allowed to use live ammo last year because they were fucking running out!

 

[shadowsource]

Target practice -

Originally posted by Sparky
Hell they won't even let us practice with real shit anymore. (I mean fuck these Peurto Rican assholes). Maybe you should invite the Pentagon to shell your new home.