What are your thoughts about a suicidal person?

[Guest]

Have you ever known someone who was suicidal?

How well did you know the person? How did it impact your life?

Are you or have you been (seriously so--not just the "oh I am going to show them!")?

What are your attitudes about suicide?

Do you believe it is our right? If not, are there any circumstances you think it is acceptable?

 

[plasticman33]

Good grief!

Why would anyone want to commit suicide? Life rolls on, what's depressing for the moment can change rapidly. It's a decision that is far to final! Hang in there and wait!

 

[Guest]

What are your thoughts about a suicidal person?

I empathize.

Have you ever known someone who was suicidal?

Yes. Many. Occupational hazard as a crisis counselor.

How well did you know the person?
Well, my mother has been suicidal.
I've had 2 other loved ones, as well.

How did it impact your life?
More reminders of the fragility of life.

Are you or have you been (seriously so--not just the "oh I am going to show them!")?
I have been suicidal. It has been almost 10 years since that period in my life.

What are your attitudes about suicide?

A. Suicidal persons are in the midst of crisis.
B. Suicidal persons live amongst deep, internal ambivalence.
C. Persons contemplating suicide see no other escape from the irrational pain they feel.
D. Suicidal communications can be a serious sign of distress or a frank manipulation. In either case, someone needs help.

Do you believe it is our right? If not, are there any circumstances you think it is acceptable?
I can't say if it's right or wrong. I only live my life and I can only speak for myself.

 

[LadyDarkFire]

Re: Good grief!

Why would anyone want to commit suicide? Life rolls on, what's depressing for the moment can change rapidly. It's a decision that is far to final! Hang in there and wait!

Plasticman, when a person is to the point of commiting suicide, he or she doesn't realize that things can change, the pain, the numbing cold, and the feelings of being worthless/lonely/in incredible mental anguish just consume the person. It can be a result of what is considered a taboo disease, and alot of times people aren't given the support or advice they need. It can become something of shame to have a so called "Mental Health Problem" and with the lesser known sorts of diagnosises, even doctors can be disbelieving, and can be VERY detrimental to a person's feelings of self worth. You can be told that you are just trying to get attention, or that it will just pass, or that you are over dramitizing the symtoms. For things like Anxiety, you can be accused of trying to get out of things, or that you are being foolish and stupid. There are even doctors who will advise you to "just get over it" because they don't know all the particulars of the problem. Once you do get treatment, you can go through awful side effects, including not being able to hold food down, and such other effects like being bone weary even though you've slept for 14 hours. The effects of Serzone, a common antidepressant, also used for anxiety, can include everything from headaches to vomiting something that looks like Coffee grounds. If they get the diagnosis wrong, you can still feel that pain, but you won't be able to do anything about it because you are nearly a zombie, a human mind trapped in a nearly corpse like body. Self mutilation seems the only thing to releave the pain, and your friends can't deal being around you because it is too painfull to see you like that.

 

[plasticman33]

Of course then you have suicidal religious fanatics blowing themselves up to meet Allah!

 

[LadyDarkFire]

That's another story.

 

[JennyOmanHill]

Suicide isn't painless.

Have you ever known someone who was suicidal?

How well did you know the person? How did it impact your life?

Are you or have you been (seriously so--not just the "oh I am going to show them!")?

What are your attitudes about suicide?

Do you believe it is our right? If not, are there any circumstances you think it is acceptable?

I think most people have had suicidal thoughts at least once in their lives (I remember vividly my latter teen years!).

My best friend, who was being treated for depression, confessed to her therapist that she thought she wanted to kill herself. An hour later, under police escort, she was admitted to the hospital. Even though it turned out to be a good thing for my friend, at the time it affected me as if my world were ending. It took me an entire week to even muster up the strength to visit her, but it opened up the realities of depression and its effects to me in a way I could never have imagined. I mean, there was NO way you could tell the patients from the visitors (in most cases), and it felt as if it had happened to me. The experience changed my way of looking at others completely, and I feel I'm a better person for it.

I have since had my own battle with depression, but feel that there is still too much good in life to purposely end it yourself. I cannot answer for any other person, but it still breaks my heart to hear a person has killed themself. I cannot judge such a person, but only feel sad that their pain was so severe. Life seems to have a way of working out even the worst of things, and I believe it's still worth the ride.

 

[sch00lteacher]

Selfish

Back in the olden days when I was a cop I had to deal with two suicides. I watched one (guy jumping off a building head first). And I was the first to find the other one (sixteen year old ate a shotgun).

To me commiitting suicide is the most selfish act possible. You don't have to deal with the aftermath, your friends, family, and others have to deal with it.

Now that I have gotten that out of the way I want to say that you need to push the person who is suicidal into getting help. Even if it means calling the cops.

You have to treat every threat of suicide as real. This isn't something that people joke about. If someone says that they are thinking about it, then it is time to act.

 

[JennyOmanHill]

Re: Selfish

...To me commiitting suicide is the most selfish act possible. You don't have to deal with the aftermath, your friends, family, and others have to deal with it.
Now that I have gotten that out of the way I want to say that you need to push the person who is suicidal into getting help. Even if it means calling the cops.
You have to treat every threat of suicide as real. This isn't something that people joke about. If someone says that they are thinking about it, then it is time to act.

I realized the selfishness of the act as I got older. And my friends and I are actually grateful that my friend's therapist did what he did to get her the help she needed. Another reason cops should be honored.

 

[plasticman33]

Once when I was in the Air Force, I found a guy who had tried to commit suicide by taking an overdose of sleeping pills. I dragged him out of the barracks, hung him over the fire escape, stuck my fingers down his throat and forced him to throw up. Another guy called for an ambulance. They showed up took him to the hospital and finished pumping his stomach. He was finally given a general discharge. The ironic part of it was that was all he wanted, out of the military. One hell of a way to go about it. If we hadn't found him he would have been out of everything.

To me life is to precious no matter the circumstances.

 

[Guest]

While I understand how suicide can not be comprehended by some or thought of as selfish, let me put this thought out here.
Selfish= concern for oneself
Concern= To be of interest and importance.

Suicidal= No interest, concern, or rational feelings towards oneself or others.

Therefore the ethics, moral, values, rules of a healthy psyche is not considered.

That's the point, your ability to rationally determine a+b=c is not fathomable to someone in the state.

Be glad you've never been in the position to truly empathize.

 

[Marxist]

The only instance in which suicide is permissible in my book: Where a more painful and imminent death awaits.

Anything less is mental disease and self-pity gone awry.

 

[LadyDarkFire]

Anything less is mental disease and self-pity gone awry.

A mental "disease" can be very dibilitating, and incredibly painful. Never underestimate the power of the human mind, even when it is pitted against the human who has it.

 

[LukkyKnight]

Re: Selfish

You have to treat every threat of suicide as real. This isn't something that people joke about. If someone says that they are thinking about it, then it is time to act.

Exactly.

Is it a right? Under certain terminal physical conditions I'd argue it's not unreasonable, but there are no mental-health type conditions which should be "solved" by choosing an irrevocable action. It is unacceptable to say the least.

To amplify on sch00lteacher's statements: never leave an imminently suicidal person alone. Do not trust them to act rationally. Get help, dragging them along if need be. Life really bites some days, but it beats the alternative all to hell.

 

[Willing and Unsure]

i've known several people that have been suicidal, myself included. it wasnt fun, now that i look back on that time in my life, but the way things were for me then, i understand why it made sense to me to do it. it seemed to me that no one cared or even noticed me, so it didnt matter if i was here or not. so i figured why not? and the night my father saw the huges gashes in my arms and said nothing, i knew that no one cared. and that it didnt matter. so i went about my life cutting myself, leaving marks all over my body, and no one noticed.. not even the teachers at school. there was no feeling left in me at that point. it didnt matter to me anymore then. i just wanted out since no one seemed to care whether or not i even existed. i eventually found my way out when one of my teachers talked me into trying out for the basketball team (and i made it) in middle school. that helped me more than anything, and i think that is a big reason i'm still here. i know now i hit the bottom, and i dont like to think about it much anymore because i know what i was thinking then, and i know how much i wish i hadnt of been.

i also knew someone that killed himself. i sat next to him in lunch everyday during first semester of my senior year of high school. we shared some fries a couple times a week (usually when he has money since i never did). and right around my birthday, he hung himself. i couldnt even bring myself to go into the cafeteria after that, let alone to consider having lunch again.

suicide effects everyone, not just the person that does it. yeah, they hit rock bottom, and they dont have anywhere else to go, and its what makes sense. i empathise, in many ways because i've been there, i also do my best to help those that i know need it because i know what it feels like

 

[Marxist]

A mental "disease" can be very dibilitating, and incredibly painful. Never underestimate the power of the human mind, even when it is pitted against the human who has it.

I'm not trying to underestimate a disease of any magnitude. Mental diseases are of such a nebulous and many time solvable nature that suicide is never a solution. The same can't be said of all forms and stages of cancer or AIDS.

 

[KillerMuffin]

My brother in law killed himself back in 1995. I don't think anyone in the family has healed from it yet, or ever will. They're so afraid of losing the rest of their children, particularly since the Stud went through the war thing and is homicidal. The Stud blames himself because we lived only 350 miles away from him and we could have stopped him.

People who are truly suicidal need help. People who are truly suicidal don't actually want to kill themselves, they just want people to pay attention to them, give them sympathy which means care and concern, and to feel better. Suicide threats are a cry for help, not actual self-destruction. However, when the wanted love, sympathy, and attention doesn't come, it just reinforces the no-one cares about me feeling until it comes to a head and s/he kills himself. That'll show 'em. They'll be sorry when I'm not here to beat on anymore. I wonder if they'll even notice.

Most suicidal people never think beyond the act other than a vague feeling that they'll be gone and there won't be pain anymore. Death isn't exactly a tangible thing, other than they want something that'll either be easy or will make people pay attention. They think about the pain people will experience at their loss in the aftermath as if they'll be there to see it somehow. Most suicidal people never think about how they'll hurt the people they love either. They can't think beyond their circumstances deep in the pit of depression and they can't see the other people around them with a sense of reality that isn't colored by depression.

Suicidal people want help. They know there is help out there. However, their depression makes them lethargic and their suicidal mindset makes it almost necessary for someone else to make the first move.

People want to assign blame. If only I'd done more, I could have helped poor Johnny. If only I'd said hi to her more often Mary never would have... Even the suicide blames people. If only they'd be my friends, pay attention to me, love me I wouldn't have to kill myself. This is not rational thinking.

If someone is suicidal they believe that all they need is other people to make them feel better. This is the biggest lie people tell themselves. You have a two choices in this life, you can live to live or you can live to die. Dying is easy. The only person who can make that choice for anyone is that person themselves. We make the decision to live life to live or to live it to die. We decide if we're going to have the internal attitude that gets us through the hard things in life or if we're going to knuckle under them and let them defeat us. Suicides are defeatists. They've lost the race and have admitted defeat before they've even gotten out on the track.

I have no sympathy for suicidal people. I feel for them, because it's a lot of pain to go through, but I have no sympathy. I can tell them where to get help and how to get it, I'm good with a phone book and the 'Net, but I can't make them get it. I feel no responsibility for a suicidal person beyond making sure they have the tools they need to get the help they need. I can't make them do it no matter how much I wish I could. The responsibility for the suicidal person ultimately rests on the suicidal person. There comes times in everyone's lives where they must choose to live or choose to die.

 

[YogiBare]

Mental Illness

"I'm not trying to underestimate a disease of any magnitude. Mental diseases are of such a nebulous and many time solvable nature that suicide is never a solution. The same can't be said of all forms and stages of cancer or AIDS."



Unfortunately, there is no cure for the primary mental disorders that bring on feelings of suicide, including schizophrenia, depression, bipolar disorder, and anxiety disorders. They are chronic and lifelong conditions, similar to diabetes, that can be treated, with varying degrees of success. The condition requires management throughout a person's lifetime, as the severity of symptoms ebb and wane, and medications that work today can very easily stop working tomorrow. You never predict prognosis with any degree of certainty. There is so much that we don't know about mental illnesses.

Mental illness is an irrational living hell that cannot really be understood until a person experiences it. Voices in one's head saying repeatedly, inescapably, 24 hours per day, "You're worthless. Walk in front of a truck now. You're pitiful. Noone will miss you. Just do it!" Depression so deep that brushing your teeth is impossibly daunting. No sleep. Can't concentrate. S...L...O...W. Swimming through a vat of molasses. Unable to experience pleasure. Feeling absolute disconnection from everyone, everything, and especially oneself. Failure. Total, permanent, failure. Days and weeks without sleep. No desire to eat. Watch the weight fall off Seeing the panicked pain in the eyes of those who love you. Feel unremitting, seething pain. Intense anxiety. Impending doom. All you want is out.

As raindancer said, every aspect of normal mental functioning is beyond reach. Ethics and reason are impossible .

Depression has been a lifelong condition for me, and one that was not diagnosed until I was past 30. I didn't receive medication until 43 (five years ago) when I was in the deepest and most debilitating depression of my life, after my divorce. After I got stabilized on meds (which took a long time) I finally experienced how people normally feel. It was a true case of, "been down so long it feels like up to me."

During these five years, dosages had to be increased, drugs stopped working, side-effects became intolerable, and it is a constant process of making changes and adjustments. Thank God that for me there has (so far) always been a solution. Right now the meds are about 67% effective, my hands visibly tremble from the drugs, and the side effects sometimes keep me from performing sexually.

It's not exactly the life I had in mind, but it is a reasonably good life. I have a lot that I am grateful for and a lot of people, animals, and activities that I take pleasure from. Many, many people with mental illnesses are not nearly as fortunate as I am.

 

[nasty]

Yep. I went to school with someone that killed themselves. I've held a knife to myself, too. Does that make me suicidal? No. I don't think I really was. I was calling out for help. Anyway, to answer your question, I think suicidal people are stupid.

 

[LadyDarkFire]

If you have a friend/loved one, or someone else that you know who you suspect may be contemplating suicide, this site can help by offering tips, advice, and warning signs of suicide. http://www.nami.org/helpline/suicide.htm

If you are thinking about suicide, please read the information at this site: http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

If you've lost someone to suicide: http://www.pbs.org/weblab/living/

For information, or ways to get help: http://www.nostigma.com

Word of Caution On dealing with a person who is in pain, and may be thinking about suicide:
Do be Aware, Do be Careful, but Don't be judgemental, patronizing, or treat them as a thing, or their problem, they are still the person you care about, love, and know, there is just something else there with them.

 

[Willing and Unsure]

I think suicidal people are stupid.

thanks.. i never thought i was stupid for feeling the way i did, just like i dont think anyone else is stupid for feeling the way they do. KillerMuffin said a lot of the things i was trying to, i just didnt know how to really. and she's right on all of it. Suicidal people are asking for help in their own way, even though it isnt the way that many think someone should ask for help.

 

[Guest]

Willing and Unsure,
You're not stupid. Opinions can fly about like the wind and never amount to anything more.
Some folks don't get it and it's ok if they don't.
Be proud that you can speak about your experiences and being even more proud that you got through them.

 

[LadyDarkFire]

Stupidity or intelligence has nothing to do with being suicidal. It's not a condition that plays on IQ, or common sense. It is not something you can think your way out of. Depression is a state of emotional being, it's roots can be deeper than any book knowledge, or even any ties to family. It's a tough place to be, and an even tougher place to crawl out of.

 

[kiwiwolf]

In 1985 I found the body of my best friend. He had taken his face off with a twelve gauge. You don't ever get over things like that... I still have nightmares about it to this day.

He showed no signs that he was contemplating doing it, at least none that any of us could pick up, but all of his friends blamed ourselves for a long time. We were in the same Army unit together, and for a while we were all in some sort of therapy.

Time healed the immediate pain but there is a huge ache that is always there in the background.

 

[kiwiwolf]

In 1985 I found the body of my best friend. He had taken his face off with a twelve gauge. You don't ever get over things like that... I still have nightmares about it to this day.

He showed no signs that he was contemplating doing it, at least none that any of us could pick up, but all of his friends blamed ourselves for a long time. We were in the same Army unit together, and for a while we were all in some sort of therapy.

Time healed the immediate pain but there is a huge ache that is always there in the background.

I still miss him