Voluntary World Blackout...

[deathlynx]

An Intriguing concept to be sure! Near as I understand this is 14:55 - 15:00 (otherwise known as 2:55-3 PM) EST...Found this on deviant in the journal of one of my friends there...

Total darkness: on February 29th, 2008, from 19:55 to 20:00 (Lisbon time - GMT standard time), the idea is for everyone to turn off all the lights and, if possible, all electrical devices, so that our planet can "breath". If the response to this appeal is massive, the energetic saving can be massive. Only 5 minutes, to see what happens. Yes, for 5 minutes we will be in darkness - we can light a candle or simply gaze at the darkness, we will simply be breathing, us and the planet. Remember that union makes power, and Internet can have a lot of power - we can do something really big. Spread this idea, if you have friends living in other countries, send them this message and ask them to translate and adapt the hours.

 

[Mark_Ilaan]

Intriguing idea. I wonder what the impact would really be.

 

[Liar]

Intriguing idea. I wonder what the impact would really be.

Other than a few fried transformators?

 

[Mark_Ilaan]

Other than a few fried transformators?

I think there'd be more to it than that. Power stations and plants would go haywire. A sudden stopping of usage, followed in a few minutes by a massive, worldwide surge of power--It'd be something to see.

 

[Ootpic]

Intriguing idea. I wonder what the impact would really be.

Generating plants would have to shut down due to the deceased demand, like what happened yesterday at the Turkey Point reactor in Florida when the lines to a substation went out.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I think we should do it for a month. Give everyone a bitter taste of pre-industrial reality. It would silence an awful lot of the nonsense associated with misplaced guilt that people have for enjoying the comforts, conveniences and broadened horizons that industrial civilization makes possible. Let 'em all shiver in the dark for a few weeks, then let's see how "green" they really wanna become.

Just sayin'.

~~~~

PS. I've done a fair amount of winter ski-camping over the years, and a few years ago had no power for a week when a November ice-storm knocked down the lines. It was in the 30s (F); I did have hot water for showers or it would have been really grim, and I was comfy bundled up in my winter sleeping bag, but I'll tell you, reading in the evening with flashlights and smoky kerosene lamps got real old night after night. IOW, I know whereof I speak in the paragraph above.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I would take part if I were going to be near a switch of any kind. But I'm going to be out of town and so not using power by myself.

 

[deathlynx]

Well, a month would not work for most people honestly...heck, even I would probably go a little stir crazy, though I always have writing and reading I can do...I'm not afraid of pen and paper style...

 

[Liar]

I'm not afraid of pen and paper style...

I am. I want to be able to read what I've written.

 

[starrkers]

Too many people rely on electricity for it to ever be total - I'm thinking ICU wards etc in hospitals here, and others needing machines to breathe for them.
Other than that, no industry would shut down voluntarily. Too difficult to effect a restart.

But, damn I'd love to see the power spike hit the grids

 

[deathlynx]

Oh, I certainly don't think it should be universal...after all, most of us would lose contact with each other...and there are a lot of great technologies out there...it's mostly jsut a statement...

 

[Boxlicker101]

That would have been 11:55 to noon, PST. I don't remember if I had the computer on or not, but I don't thin I did. We would not have had any lights on at that time. The clock on the microwave and the range were on. The ref. and the freezer were turned on, but I have no idea if they were running or not.

 

[cantdog]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90/sysladobsis/snow00resz.jpg

I live here, and I go to a cabin built of laid spruce logs, for fun. There are no wires. No phone, no lights but the gas lamps and kero lanterns, no running water (there's the bucket, go fetch!). No TV, no radio, et cetera. I love it. I have done this for recreation for years. I also go on canoe trips. Last year, to Labrador. It was a good time. We got rained on, and we dug it.

Sorry, Rox. Wildness is the default. Every place on the planet began wild, and would return to that state. We ourselves, even as we now (mostly) live, are wild animals, in the sense that no one controls our reproduction for their purposes. I value that, too.

That said, as public policy, shutting down the power is stupid. But you seem to confuse shutting down the power with "Green." You should look it up, Rox.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90/sysladobsis/snow01.jpg

Taken today.

 

[deathlynx]

Okay, I'm not sure why I keep finding out about these so late, but here it is...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qczUcQ-VjM

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Somehow I don't see any positive affect from this. The only real affect I can foresee is the oil companies claiming the "Earth Hour" cut deeply into their profits, forcing them to raise gas prices

 

[Pure]

on the rox

RA I think we should do it for a month. Give everyone a bitter taste of pre-industrial reality. It would silence an awful lot of the nonsense associated with misplaced guilt that people have for enjoying the comforts, conveniences and broadened horizons that industrial civilization makes possible. Let 'em all shiver in the dark for a few weeks, then let's see how "green" they really wanna become.

Just sayin'.

~~~~

PS. I've done a fair amount of winter ski-camping over the years, and a few years ago had no power for a week when a November ice-storm knocked down the lines. It was in the 30s (F); I did have hot water for showers or it would have been really grim, and I was comfy bundled up in my winter sleeping bag, but I'll tell you, reading in the evening with flashlights and smoky kerosene lamps got real old night after night. IOW, I know whereof I speak in the paragraph above.

===

P: rox has a bit of trouble with real alternatives to her views. hence her 'libs' and 'greens' want to revert to campfires.

aside from France, her fave, for its nuclear power, we don't hear of genuine efforts of european countries, e.g. Germany, to go a bit towards green.

too close to reality, i suppose.

here's the story from a dangerously left wing source, Business Week!

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_06/b4070068798563.htm

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

rox has a bit of trouble with real alternatives to her views. hence her 'libs' and 'greens' want to revert to campfires.

aside from France, her fave, for its nuclear power, we don't hear of genuine efforts of european countries, e.g. Germany, to go a bit towards green.

too close to reality, i suppose.

Pure, Roxanne has it right. nuclear power is the way to go in the 21st century. The real problem with that energy source is that the "tree-huggers" made nuclear so unpopular with scare tactics in the 70's and 80's that we have no one who can either build or operate a nuclear power plant. We need nuclear engineers and very large contractors (like Bectel was) before we can even think of going that direction. Tho only other option is - do you really want the Chinese to build your nuclear plants and Indians running them?

 

[voluptuary_manque]

If wilderness is the default condition then so is tiny, hunter-gathering populations. Some hold this out as an ideal but might I point out that in those populations there is a 50% infant mortality rate? That if we make any attempt to hold onto civilization without electricity we have to revert to a slave-based economy, like every economy prior to the Industrial Revolution? And have you noticed that no-one who goes on about over-population ever leaves a suicide note claiming to have done it for the good of the planet?

Back is not an option and neither are the stars, at least yet. Clean up the power grid. Get free of authoritarian foreign sources of fuel. Clean up the sea. Life will be good.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I... And have you noticed that no-one who goes on about over-population ever leaves a suicide note claiming to have done it for the good of the planet?...

I'm pretty sure that's happened, actually... just as a side point...

Back is not an option and neither are the stars, at least yet. Clean up the power grid. Get free of authoritarian foreign sources of fuel. Clean up the sea. Life will be good.

I'm with you there.

 

[gauchecritic]

Pure, Roxanne has it right. nuclear power is the way to go in the 21st century. The real problem with that energy source is that the "tree-huggers" made nuclear so unpopular with scare tactics in the 70's and 80's that we have no one who can either build or operate a nuclear power plant. We need nuclear engineers and very large contractors (like Bectel was) before we can even think of going that direction. Tho only other option is - do you really want the Chinese to build your nuclear plants and Indians running them?

Nuclear power is using a steam hammer to knock in nails*. If your so happy with it why don't you and Roxleby campaign to have a re-processing plant built in your back yard to contain the unusable by-product with which you can contaminate all the local wild-life or eventually simply trickle into the food chain to slowly kill your great X ten grandchildren.

Scare tactics. Some bad things come in glowing packages.


*the only thing that is used to generate industrial economy energy is turbines, turbines run on many things like hot water, wind, waves etc. Nuclear energy does not come from splitting atoms, it comes from heating water.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

*the only thing that is used to generate industrial economy energy is turbines, turbines run on many things like hot water, wind, waves etc. Nuclear energy does not come from splitting atoms, it comes from heating water.

That's why I like geothermal. Mother can heat water like anything!

Another idea is what I have heard is happening on the island of Saipan. Saipan is a favorite destination for Japanese tourists but the problem is lack of power and lack of fresh water. There's an 80+ year-old multimillionaire engineer who his planning on putting in a large OTEC generator (uses the thermal differential between surface and deep ocean to generate power) like the pilot plant that provides a portion of the electicity for Hawai'i. The proposed, or underconstruction, Saipan plant will provide all the electricity for the island, cold water to run air-conditioning for the hotels and fresh water so that the island will be independent as far as row crops are concerned. Pollution free? No, there's always those damned lights from the hotel nightlife that dim the stars . . .

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Nuclear power is using a steam hammer to knock in nails*. If your so happy with it why don't you and Roxleby campaign to have a re-processing plant built in your back yard to contain the unusable by-product with which you can contaminate all the local wild-life or eventually simply trickle into the food chain to slowly kill your great X ten grandchildren.

Scare tactics. Some bad things come in glowing packages.


*the only thing that is used to generate industrial economy energy is turbines, turbines run on many things like hot water, wind, waves etc. Nuclear energy does not come from splitting atoms, it comes from heating water.

Having lived a few miles from a Nuclear Power plant (now shut down), the problem is, from my perspective, the French have it, the Chinese have, even the bloody Iranians have it. Just off the top of my head those are three of the most irresponsible countries on earth. The U.S.had one major break down - Three Mile Island. That breakdown occured in a plant that was obsolete and built to an old obsolete standard to begin with.

There had been a few gas leaks from plants in the U.S. over the years. None of anything like that magnitue. Can nuclear power be safe? I think so.

The vision perported by the Tree Huggers back in the days of Nuclear Hate was of billions of tons of waste littering the countryside. The Trojan Nuclear Plant produced less than 1000 pounds of concentrated waste in 10 years.

The French have built a beautiful warehouse outside Paris with a concrete reinforced floor twenty meters thick with holes to store all their waste for the next 200 years. It can be done here too.

The problems with nuclear were mostly economic. The cost of purchasing and handling fuel rods made it more expensive than buring oil or coal. That's not true anymore. Wind and solar are great when the wind blows and the sun shines, but the best estimates are with concentrated investment wind and solar can contribute 5-8% of our energy needs 40 years from now. Where does the other 92-95% come from? We have no sites left for major hydro electirc dams. Oil prices are out of control. And coal is a dwindling industry under fire for their mining practices and mine saftey issues.

You tell me.

 

[deathlynx]

There's also the possibility for orbital solar power...keep in mind that you don't have to worry about clouds that way...From what I've heard about it, the energy can then be beamed directly down, though it needs some work to be fully implementable...

And the blackout concept is more along the same lines as conserving electricity and how effective it can be for power...

 

[cantdog]

You beam it down as microwaves. Focused. Sunlight is plentiful and free, in orbit, and the photoreceptor arrays can be a whole lot smaller if they are catching beams, not spread out trapping sunlight.

I think it only wants people in high orbit, to do maintenance, to implement it. The book on it, The High Frontier, was written in the late seventies, and in that book, Dr. O'Neill claimed it was doable with off-the-shelf tech. Then! But with no-one in space on a regular basis, of course, nothing can happen.

 

[cantdog]

Having lived a few miles from a Nuclear Power plant (now shut down), the problem is, from my perspective, the French have it, the Chinese have, even the bloody Iranians have it. Just off the top of my head those are three of the most irresponsible countries on earth. The U.S.had one major break down - Three Mile Island. That breakdown occured in a plant that was obsolete and built to an old obsolete standard to begin with.

There had been a few gas leaks from plants in the U.S. over the years. None of anything like that magnitue. Can nuclear power be safe? I think so.

The vision perported by the Tree Huggers back in the days of Nuclear Hate was of billions of tons of waste littering the countryside. The Trojan Nuclear Plant produced less than 1000 pounds of concentrated waste in 10 years.

The French have built a beautiful warehouse outside Paris with a concrete reinforced floor twenty meters thick with holes to store all their waste for the next 200 years. It can be done here too.

The problems with nuclear were mostly economic. The cost of purchasing and handling fuel rods made it more expensive than buring oil or coal. That's not true anymore. Wind and solar are great when the wind blows and the sun shines, but the best estimates are with concentrated investment wind and solar can contribute 5-8% of our energy needs 40 years from now. Where does the other 92-95% come from? We have no sites left for major hydro electirc dams. Oil prices are out of control. And coal is a dwindling industry under fire for their mining practices and mine saftey issues.

You tell me.

Mining the stuff is incredibly messy. Produces carbon, too. Still, the figures for the whole process beat coal. Order of magnitude, beat coal. Coal-fired plants need to be phased out.

Part of the problem is centralized, big-plant thinking. Google Malmö. The Malmö model is the buzz. They have a small plant supplying a small area; many of them. One of the efficiencies is that the waste heat of the process is not wasted, but provides heating and cooling, via pipelines directly.

Small, distributed systems on a two-way grid will allow every small producer to contribute to the overall grid. This discussion is very old. Whole Earth Review and Co-Evolution Quarterly, Mother Jones, and the like have talked small-scale, distributed power systems for decades.