Victims or Not?

[Le Jacquelope]

There are very few instances where I can't find a shade of grey. This is one of those cases. I would put him in the same category as one who drives drunk and kills someone - it's murder, and the people he infects are victims. Not blameless (as someone who gets in the car of a drunk driver who swear that s/he is sober) but victims nonetheless. Yes, their behaviour may questionable, but they are condemned to die. Whether that happens instantaneously or in the future is moot: having HIV is a death sentence and it was knowingly transmitted, making the unknowing recipients victims.

Thing is, you can tell when someone is sober quite easily. HIV? You can't tell by looking.

If asking someone if they're HIB+ is not due diligence, then asking for paperwork is hardly effective diligence, because paperwork can be forged. Easily. I can do that in 5 minutes. Including booting up my computer, turning on my printer and scanner, taking a #2 at the john, and then prepping me a pina colada ahead of time. Muhahahahahah, and all that.

 

[Eilan]

From what I can tell, 1st degree assault is a Class A felony and carries a maximum sentence of life in prison and fine up to $50,000.

Knowingly transmitting HIV is specifically noted in the definition of assault in the first degree.

So, it's not really a puny charge, IMO.

Cool. Thanks for the info.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

From what I can tell, 1st degree assault is a Class A felony and carries a maximum sentence of life in prison and fine up to $50,000.

Knowingly transmitting HIV is specifically noted in the definition of assault in the first degree.

So, it's not really a puny charge, IMO.

I believe attempted murder (and murder if the act leads to infection and death) bring much worse charges, as in a much higher likelihood of life imprisonment, or the death penalty.

It may have been what the police and DA thought would stick best and carry the largest penalty, especially if they get Roush on multiple counts. I suppose it's possible it was the only thing they could reasonably charge him with and make a case for when none of the victims wanted to press charges and they're having trouble identifying other potential victims due to the anonymous sex and health confidentiality laws.

It might give them room to tack on more charges as the case develops while keeping him locked up, too.

Hopefully Roush and his family aren't smart and rich enough to get a really good attorney to fight the charges.

Those are damned good points.

 

[SweetErika]

I believe attempted murder (and murder if the act leads to infection and death) bring much worse charges, as in a much higher likelihood of life imprisonment, or the death penalty.

Look at the Revised Code of Washington yourself, but it looks like the maximum penalties for first degree assault and attempted murder are the same, since they both usually qualify as Class A felonies.

This is an interesting story on a different case that shows prosecutors probably chose assault over murder in the Roush case.

As I suspected, the DA could have a hard time making a case for attempted murder (and there are probably more loopholes for Roush to weasel his way through) whereas it should be relatively easy to make the first degree assault stick since the burden of proof is lower and the R.C.W. specifically mentions knowingly transmitting HIV as a qualification for the charge.

Barring major SNAFUs, I'm guessing Roush will get life, or at least be in prison for the rest of his life. Time in the pokey can't be all that great for the lifespan of HIV+ inmates.

I wonder if he's likely to be segregated from the prison population so he can't repeat his crime while he's doing his time.

 

[Eilan]

Time in the pokey can't be all that great for the lifespan of HIV+ inmates.

Won't the state have to pay for meds and treatments, though? If he lived where I do, he'd probably be better off than uninsured/underinsured Joe Average.

 

[SweetErika]

Won't the state have to pay for meds and treatments, though? If he lived where I do, he'd probably be better off than uninsured/underinsured Joe Average.

Yes, and I think you're right health care-wise. Or at least in that area; Seattle has a lot of specialized health resources for those with HIV/AIDS.

However, I think diet, lifestyle and stress have a lot to do with how well HIV+ people fare. In those regards, prison will probably be detrimental to his health.

 

[fgarvb1]

The basics:
A guy finds out he's HIV-positive.
He meets men online and proceeds to have anonymous sex with them in a local park.
Even when a partner asks if he has HIV or anything else, he says he doesn't.
But at least some of his partners took his word for it, and they may have the virus.

Article here

There was a discussion about whether or not this guy's partners are victims on a local radio show today. That is, should they be viewed as victims of a madman who knowingly exposed many people to HIV, or is it pretty much their own fault for engaging in such risky behavior? Or maybe it's a combination of the two, or something else entirely?

Anyway, as much as we talk about sex here, I thought it was an interesting issue and question. I'm not quite sure what I make of it, but it certainly reinforces some of my fears regarding casual sex and health!

What say you?

***********************************************************
Both.

He has assaulted them or at least attempted to murder them.

Also and this holds true for anyone, anytime and anyplace...

"When you are somewhere you are not suppose to be, doing something you are not supposed to be doing, with someone you are not supposed to be doing it with, sooner or later,somehow, there is a price to pay."

Says fgarvb1.

 

[satindesire]

Yes, and I think you're right health care-wise. Or at least in that area; Seattle has a lot of specialized health resources for those with HIV/AIDS.

However, I think diet, lifestyle and stress have a lot to do with how well HIV+ people fare. In those regards, prison will probably be detrimental to his health.

Am I callous to just not care if it is?

And yes, you're quite right. My sister lived for years and years with HIV because she took excellent care of herself for the sake of her family and her own life...but as soon as it actually turned into full blown AIDS she wasted away within two years. It was pretty shocking, actually.

 

[fire_breeze]

Satin, my deepest sympathies for you and your family.

Thing is, you can tell when someone is sober quite easily. HIV? You can't tell by looking.
<snip>.

True, you can't tell by looking at a person whether or not s/he is HIV+. However, you cannot always tell whether a person is inebriated or not. People can act quite sober when they are in fact far from it. And they are capable of lying and driving someone home.

I used the drunk driver analogy to further illustrate my point that these people knowingly put another person's life in danger, putting them into a death situation without the person's knowledge and consent. That is to me is murder. I cannot - and I did try to see the situation from various angles - see it any other way. And if it is murder, then those he infected are victims. Maybe not blameless, but victims nonetheless.

 

[Submission13]

Yes, and I think you're right health care-wise. Or at least in that area; Seattle has a lot of specialized health resources for those with HIV/AIDS.

However, I think diet, lifestyle and stress have a lot to do with how well HIV+ people fare. In those regards, prison will probably be detrimental to his health.

Aside from the loss of personal freedom, isn't prison and being surrounded by other men, with no other outlet for their sexual urges than each other, a little bit to easy on this guy? Will he be required to notify the other prisoners he in housed with of his HIV status. Would someone in jail with no other options care if they had sex with him. Economically it would probably be better to keep him confined to solitary confinement for the rest of his life! Actually if he is to be incarcerated should he not be keep from other prisoners as punishment for his behavior?

 

[SweetErika]

Aside from the loss of personal freedom, isn't prison and being surrounded by other men, with no other outlet for their sexual urges than each other, a little bit to easy on this guy? Will he be required to notify the other prisoners he in housed with of his HIV status. Would someone in jail with no other options care if they had sex with him. Economically it would probably be better to keep him confined to solitary confinement for the rest of his life! Actually if he is to be incarcerated should he not be keep from other prisoners as punishment for his behavior?

Maybe they could tattoo his ass with his HIV status, like Swaziland is considering doing to its HIV+ citizens.

In all seriousness, I don't think that's such a terrible idea for prisoners, especially if HIV testing isn't extremely accessible to them.

I have no idea how the system will deal with Roush if/when he goes to prison. Like I said, I'd be in favor of segregation/isolation due to his crime and obvious interest in unprotected sex with other men, but I'm not sure what the policies on this kind of thing are.

 

[silverwhisper]

submission queried:
aside from the loss of personal freedom, isn't prison and being surrounded by other men, with no other outlet for their sexual urges than each other, a little bit to easy on this guy?

a little bit easy? are you somehow unfamiliar with the kinds of violence that can take place in prison?

ed

 

[Submission13]

a little bit easy? are you somehow unfamiliar with the kinds of violence that can take place in prison?

ed

Having never been in prison I have had no personal experience with being incarcerated. But I have watched enough movies and documentaries to understand that its not a nice place. But it would be a lot different for a straight man to be incarcerated than for a gay man. Simply on the grounds that he still has access to the gender that he is physically attracted and interested in having sex with!

 

[silverwhisper]

um...OK, you do understand that i'm talking about the prospect of rape here, rather than consensual sex?

ed

 

[silverwhisper]

um...OK, i haven't been in prison either, but you do understand that i'm talking about the prospect of rape here, rather than consensual sex, right?

ed

 

[Submission13]

Yes I understand you are talking about rape. Prison would be an all around unpleasent place!

 

[Submission13]

I am simply trying to say that there is more loss of companionship for stright men than gay men. I have been told this by friends who are gay that went to prison. Yes rape is a very real prospect in both male and female prison populations.