Venezuela imploding

[SpeareChucker]

Tyrants are not too much swayed by diplomacy; the recent history of the Middle East bears this out.

But, at least someone is giving some lip service towards doing the right thing.

It's just that diplomatically, doing is always last on the list.

 

[bellisarius]

What are we going to do when China moves to protect its investments in the Socialist ownership of the oil reserves?

If they could make a deal, a naval base to protect Maduro, we'd have another Syria on our hands where Russia is protecting its investments...

Funny thing that. Their 'contract' has them paying more than the oil's worth. To be sure it was all part of their setting a 'debt trap' for Venezuela but Venezuela would be better off honoring the contract and selling China the oil at the agreed upon price.

The bigger problem is the the petroleum infrastructure has degraded to junk status and virtually all of their competent oil workers are doing quite well in other countries. A hell of a lot of them are up in Alberta working the oil sands.

 

[DMBFFF]

Trump will do little, if anything: and that'll be good.

Venezuela will melt down and emigration will continue.

I'm not sure that Maduro will fall—Assad hasn't (nor has the mullarchy in Iran).

A post-Maduro Venezuela will eventually pull itself together: perhaps in 10 years.

Little of the recovery will be due to oil (at least not initially)—low prices—and Saudi Arabia's going to have to raise money to pay for all of that overpriced American weaponry to beat up on Yemen and thus keep prices (relatively at least) low for a while.

 

[OldJourno]

Good riddance to Maduro.

1. Yeah, failures of socialism.

2. low oil prices.



But how has Cuba lasted so long?

Maybe it's even more socialist.

Cuba is a total shithole. No one except Castro and his buddies have money. That's how socialism "works."

 

[bellisarius]

Cuba is a total shithole. No one except Castro and his buddies have money. That's how socialism "works."

"Buddies" being the military and the secret police.

 

[bellisarius]

Gotta love this one.

Russia Warns

 

[Notcastor]

Gotta love this one.

Russia Warns

And best of all, it’s true.... supporting that other guy will indeed lead to bloodshed.

 

[bellisarius]

And best of all, it’s true.... supporting that other guy will indeed lead to bloodshed.

More? Less? Which side? Stating the obvious isn't particularly noteworthy.

The violence and bloodshed have been going on for quite some time now.

Perhaps this is the time to note that the Russians too have a vested interest in keeping Maduro in power.

 

[SpeareChucker]

We were so wiling to accept bloodshed when it came to the two stable regimes of (did I say two? I meant three) of Libya and Syria (and Egypt) where bad men just had to go, no matter the cost in lives and regional stability.

What's the red line now?

 

[Notcastor]

More? Less? Which side? Stating the obvious isn't particularly noteworthy.

The violence and bloodshed have been going on for quite some time now.

Perhaps this is the time to note that the Russians too have a vested interest in keeping Maduro in power.

D-uh, of course the russians want venezuela.

And Iran. That’s hardly news. I am simply pointing out how well Putin’s been doing since he bought himself a us president.

Bonus: I think a lot of Americans grudgingly admire Putin’s skills in slipping a micky to the usa and picking up more countries that a kardashian shopping for purses.

Geopolitical pornography.

 

[bellisarius]

Let's start with some perspective here. Trumps actions re. Russia hardly reflect that of a 'puppet.' Even his stance re. border security is NOT in Russia's interest. Opening the border would do more to destabilize the US than any other single action he could take. But that's for another thread.

Re. Putin's moves. You may recall that the majority of his moves took place during the previous administrations watch. That he pulled them off masterfully goes without question. He obviously read his opponent well. And the ploy to create election chaos was successful beyond even his wildest dreams. But even he didn't expect the outcome. Chaos for the sake of chaos was the goal, mission accomplished.

The Trump administration dumping on Maduro is NOT in his best interest, is it? It throws a monkey wrench in his planning on basing strategic bombers in Venezuela and most likely port privileges as well. No matter how I game this one out I can't see this as a 'win' for Putin.

 

[Notcastor]

Chaos for the sake of chaos was the goal, mission accomplished.

I can't see this as a 'win' for Putin.

Your two main points appear to conflict with each other.

 

[bellisarius]

Your two main points appear to conflict with each other.

How so? The Trump administrations move in Venezuela is a counter-move to what Putin was trying to pull off. So much for the collusion shit.

The ball is now in Putin's court. It's up to him to make the next move if he chooses to but stating the obvious is not a move worthy of a great deal of attention.

 

[jaF0]

How so? The Trump administrations move in Venezuela is a counter-move to what Putin was trying to pull off. So much for the collusion shit.

The ball is now in Putin's court. It's up to him to make the next move if he chooses to but stating the obvious is not a move worthy of a great deal of attention.

Donny is Vlad's puppet and is doing what Vlad tells him to do to strengthen Vlad's hand.

 

[jaF0]

Shudda made this V the 51st back in the 60s instead of messing around with the other V.

 

[AngusBridie]

Jam it loud folks

 

[bellisarius]

Donny is Vlad's puppet and is doing what Vlad tells him to do to strengthen Vlad's hand.

Eat shit moron.

 

[BotanyBoy]

But how has Cuba lasted so long?

Maybe it's even more socialist.

Exactly...lots of brutal government murders.

The people respected Castro because he was the first Cuban leader ever to stand up to the United States and make it stick.

The must explain why so many of them fled to the US, and why Cuba is a borderline 3rd world shit hold except for the leftovers of capitalism from the 50's.

What are we going to do when China moves to protect its investments in the Socialist ownership of the oil reserves?

If they could make a deal, a naval base to protect Maduro, we'd have another Syria on our hands where Russia is protecting its investments...

We shouldn't do anything.

Donny is Vlad's puppet and is doing what Vlad tells him to do to strengthen Vlad's hand.

Shudda made this V the 51st back in the 60s instead of messing around with the other V.

Off the charts TDS, you and KeithD.....wow.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Whatever you say about the Bolivarianists, no one can deny, and international observers have affirmed, that they were freely and fairly elected to run Venezuela, several times over many years. There must be something about them that appeals to the people even when the economy is in the tank.

 

[DMBFFF]

Cuba is a total shithole. No one except Castro and his buddies have money. That's how socialism "works."

I don't like describing countries as "shitholes." Cuba is likely loved by millions—100 000s at least. Castro himself said don't judge Cuba by Miami standards but [some other Latin American capital]. Cuba isn't only socialist, but outright Communist, unlike Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Guatemala, El Salvador, and, of course, Venezuela.

And best of all, it’s true.... supporting that other guy will indeed lead to bloodshed.

Maybe bloodshed by proxy.

We were so wiling to accept bloodshed when it came to the two stable regimes of (did I say two? I meant three) of Libya and Syria (and Egypt) where bad men just had to go, no matter the cost in lives and regional stability.

What's the red line now?

I wonder if Castro was as brutal as Assad or Kadaffy.

D-uh, of course the russians want venezuela.

And Iran. That’s hardly news. I am simply pointing out how well Putin’s been doing since he bought himself a us president.

Bonus: I think a lot of Americans grudgingly admire Putin’s skills in slipping a micky to the usa and picking up more countries that a kardashian shopping for purses.

Geopolitical pornography.

He's a bit of a chess player.

Let's start with some perspective here. Trumps actions re. Russia hardly reflect that of a 'puppet.'

...

No matter how I game this one out I can't see this as a 'win' for Putin.

Trump will do little but talk. Putin doesn't mind talk—particularly from Trump.

Shudda made this V the 51st back in the 60s instead of messing around with the other V.

Too many Spanish-speakers (for starters).

Jam it loud folks

Eat shit moron.

Learn how to argue, moron.

Exactly...lots of brutal government murders.

I've yet to read the WP articles, but for Commie and/or 3rd World leaders, Castro didn't seem particularly brutal or murderous. For all I know there might have been less blood on his hands than say, Pinochet.

 

[Kirkrapine]

(Trickle-down not being a valid economic term, but rather a Socialist political pejorative.

I'm fairly certain the term was coined by people promoting trickle-down, not by socialists.

 

[Kirkrapine]

What are we going to do when China moves to protect its investments in the Socialist ownership of the oil reserves?

Fall of the present government will not necessarily lead to privatization of the oil industry. Many non-socialist countries, such as Saudi Arabia, have nationalized oil industries.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Let's start with some perspective here. Trumps actions re. Russia hardly reflect that of a 'puppet.' Even his stance re. border security is NOT in Russia's interest. Opening the border would do more to destabilize the US than any other single action he could take. But that's for another thread.

I don't believe he's done a single thing Putin wouldn't like, ever.

 

[Kirkrapine]

The must explain why so many of them fled to the US . . .

Most of those who fled were upper-class property owners who had something to lose from the revolution.

 

[Kirkrapine]

I wonder if Castro was as brutal as Assad or Kadaffy.

Probably not.