Using an unfamiliar phrase

[Omenainen]

Modern English is bad enough. We can't expect you to learn Middle English, too.

Yeah, but anyone reading in foreign language learns to read around words or phrases they don’t understand and try to instill the meaning from things around it. It’s only the native speakers who complain of such things.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I write using words I know, and pick the right word for the context, consistent with my style. If a reader doesn't know the meaning, that's their issue, not mine.

I've had people comment that they've learned new words from reading my stories, so they're wiser and I've not needed to dumb down. Win win.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I write using words I know, and pick the right word for the context, consistent with my style. If a reader doesn't know the meaning, that's their issue, not mine.

I've had people comment that they've learned new words from reading my stories, so they're wiser and I've not needed to dumb down. Win win.

But your writing is primarily contemporary. We who delve into a 1901 horror story, or 1940s hardboiled, need to recreate the era to a least a degree. At least I do!

 

[SimonDoom]

I find it interesting to hear from non-American writers that they get negative reactions from American readers. That's too bad. I don't think I've ever received a negative comment from a non-American reader on the ground that I used Americanisms, whatever they might be.

As a reader, I expect a writer to show respect for the basics of spelling, grammar, and punctuation. If they don't, I may react negatively. But being exposed to new words and new expressions and regional differences is part of the fun of reading. As a reader, I want the author to meet me part-way, but not to spoon-feed me.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I was reading a Sherlock Holmes story when I was young and still living in my adoptive home. I came to a part where Watson had been playing draughts with a friend and commented that he'd been shellacked. I asked Dad what Draughts are, and he answered, "Checkers." I said why didn't he say that? He said. "They call it draughts in England, Millie. The whole world isn't Oklahoma, Colorado, and Texas."

 

[ElectricBlue]

But your writing is primarily contemporary. We who delve into a 1901 horror story, or 1940s hardboiled, need to recreate the era to a least a degree. At least I do!

My longest work here is set in the sixth century AD, and I was writing in a clearly archaic style. Two clowns didn't get that, with comments trying to be clever about spelling.

I did have to research nineteen-forties vernacular for my Mickey Spillane Tribute last year, and I was pleased to get comments on how well I nailed it.

Someone discovered "discombobulated" from one of my stories, so I was quite pleased about that. Someone else discovered "susurration", equally pleased!

 

[MillieDynamite]

My longest work here is set in the sixth century AD, and I was writing in a clearly archaic style. Two clowns didn't get that, with comments trying to be clever about spelling.

I did have to research nineteen-forties vernacular for my Mickey Spillane Tribute last year, and I was pleased to get comments on how well I nailed it.

Someone discovered "discombobulated" from one of my stories, so I was quite pleased about that. Someone else discovered "susurration", equally pleased!

Well, that's the Bee's Knees. At least they weren't at sixes and sevens in your story. Okay, I'll stop now.

 

[MrPixel]

Y'all make me recall political essayist William F. Buckley. He used his rather "enriched" vocabulary to hammer opposing opinion, both in print and in person. Sent me to a dictionary many times.

Someone discovered "discombobulated" from one of my stories,

Ha! A word I use frequently! It is somewhat unwieldy in print, though.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Y'all make me recall political essayist William F. Buckley. He used his rather "enriched" vocabulary to hammer opposing opinion, both in print and in person. Sent me to a dictionary many times.

Ha! A word I use frequently! It is somewhat unwieldy in print, though.

It got me pondering, are there such words as "combobulated", "covery", "iscipline", being the opposite meaning? If not, there should be!

 

[MrPixel]

I searched for "bobulated" and found it in Urban Dictionary, but nowhere else. First thought I had with that was the experience a lady might enjoy with a fellow named "Robert".

 

[XerXesXu]

Yeah, but anyone reading in foreign language learns to read around words or phrases they don’t understand and try to instill the meaning from things around it. It’s only the native speakers who complain of such things.

Distill? Not complaining.

 

[TheRedChamber]

It got me pondering, are there such words as "combobulated", "covery", "iscipline", being the opposite meaning? If not, there should be!

"I used to live in fear of a workplace shooting. Then I relaxed when I realized all the employees at my company were completely gruntled." (Milton Jones)

I find it interesting to hear from non-American writers that they get negative reactions from American readers. That's too bad. I don't think I've ever received a negative comment from a non-American reader on the ground that I used Americanisms, whatever they might be.

American media from Scooby-Do to Friends to Breaking Bad is so prevalent that the rest of the world doesn't even notice them anymore.


Oddly I get more complaints when I lapse into Ameicanisms than I do using stronger Angloisms, but to me 'ass' and 'arse', 'panties' and 'knickers' have different connotations and work better in some situations.

 

[Omenainen]

Distill? Not complaining.

Yeah, yeah, drunk, sorry not sorry.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Distill? Not complaining.

Instill was correct in the context Omenainen used it. We can learn a thing or two from these non-English writers.

 

[Voboy]

Instill was correct in the context Omenainen used it. We can learn a thing or two from these non-English writers.

I disagree. Distill was correct.

But I do enjoy the irony of us parsing a word in a sentence about people parsing words.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I disagree. Distill was correct.

But I do enjoy the irony of us parsing a word in a sentence about people parsing words.

First dictionary definition on my search engine (I wasn't sure, either):

in·stil
[ɪnˈstɪl]
VERB
instill (verb)
gradually but firmly establish (an idea or attitude) in a person's mind:
"the standards her parents had instilled into her"

 

[Omenainen]

Instill was correct in the context Omenainen used it. We can learn a thing or two from these non-English writers.

It was?

I disagree. Distill was correct.

It wasn’t?

How the fuck am I supposed to know if you folks can’t agree amongst yourself?

 

[ElectricBlue]

It was?


It wasn’t?

How the fuck am I supposed to know if you folks can’t agree amongst yourself?

Yes, it was.

The primary meaning of distill (same search engine):
distill (verb)
purify (a liquid) by heating it so that it vaporizes, then cooling and condensing the vapour and collecting the resulting liquid:
"they managed to distil a small quantity of water"
SIMILAR:
purify
refine
filter
treat
process

make (spirits or an essence) by distilling:
"whisky is distilled from a mash of grains"
SIMILAR:
brew
ferment
make
extract the essence of (something) by heating it with a solvent:
"distil the leaves of some agrimony"
SIMILAR:
extract
press out
squeeze out
express

Secondary meaning:
extract the essential meaning or most important aspects of...

So, on the basis of the primary meaning of instill, as quoted in my post higher up, being the same as the secondary meaning of distill quoted here, instill trumps distill, meaning-wise. That's English for ya! Do keep up .

Edit - seems double l is optional. Being English English Australian, I'd tend to spell the words instill and distill, as in distillation; and I'd use the hierarchy of meaning in this thread, with distill reserved for liquids, and instill reserved for ideas.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I am German and I have never heard or read it in my whole life, though I have been living in the UK for 22 years.

German equivalent would be something like "die Gewohnheit" - indeed, knowing the English "wont" was how I figured out what those German "wohn" words meant.

I've come to the conclusion that my vocabulary is what it is, and that my readers are bright enough to look up the odd word when they need it. I think the one time I deliberately used a word that most readers would never have seen ("heptatych"), it was specifically to convey that feeling of obscurity.

 

[Omenainen]

Yes, it was.

The primary meaning of distill (same search engine):
distill (verb)
purify (a liquid) by heating it so that it vaporizes, then cooling and condensing the vapour and collecting the resulting liquid:
"they managed to distil a small quantity of water"
SIMILAR:
purify
refine
filter
treat
process

make (spirits or an essence) by distilling:
"whisky is distilled from a mash of grains"
SIMILAR:
brew
ferment
make
extract the essence of (something) by heating it with a solvent:
"distil the leaves of some agrimony"
SIMILAR:
extract
press out
squeeze out
express

Secondary meaning:
extract the essential meaning or most important aspects of...

So, on the basis of the primary meaning of instill, as quoted in my post higher up, being the same as the secondary meaning of distill quoted here, instill trumps distill, meaning-wise. That's English for ya! Do keep up .

Edit - seems double l is optional. Being English English Australian, I'd tend to spell the words instill and distill, as in distillation; and I'd use the hierarchy of meaning in this thread, with distill reserved for liquids, and instill reserved for ideas.

Gah! Okay. I’ll settle for päätellä, johtaa. Because I know the meaning of those. Anyways, that’s what anyone who can read in a language not primary to them can do, because otherwise they couldn’t do that.

 

[MrPixel]

...heptatych...

OK. Don't know precisely where I'd use that, but thanks!

One very useful word I learned here in AH is "callipygian".

 

[Voboy]

First dictionary definition on my search engine (I wasn't sure, either):

in·stil
[ɪnˈstɪl]
VERB
instill (verb)
gradually but firmly establish (an idea or attitude) in a person's mind:
"the standards her parents had instilled into her"

People instill something in others. Coaches, say, instill discipline and respect into their charges.

So to me, "instill" is something the WRITER would do. We're discussing something a READER would do. I think, in context, that the writer instills meaning, which the reader then distills.

My belief is that @Omenainen confused "instill" with "infer."

 

[XerXesXu]

Instill was correct in the context Omenainen used it. We can learn a thing or two from these non-English writers.

Not in British English. The senses in which O confused instill with distill are idioms. One doesn't need to Google them.

 

[Omenainen]

People instill something in others. Coaches, say, instill discipline and respect into their charges.

So to me, "instill" is something the WRITER would do. We're discussing something a READER would do. I think, in context, that the writer instills meaning, which the reader then distills.

My belief is that @Omenainen confused "instill" with "infer."

I think “deduce” was what I meant.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Not in British English. The senses in which O confused instill with distill are idioms. One doesn't need to Google them.

Shrug. They're not idioms, they're dictionary definitions. I merely cited the very first dictionary definitions that popped up on my search page. I didn't bother going on down the page, because generally, when I do that, the meanings are repeated.

But here are the Cambridge Dictionary definitions, just so we have them:

instill

distill

So, British English, same primary meanings as cited above.

(I went looking for the OED online, but you have to subscribe to get to their dictionary, and I no longer have my two volume printed copy).