Using an unfamiliar phrase

[Voboy]

I think “deduce” was what I meant.

Yep. That works too.

I deduced what you were trying to say.

 

[Duleigh]

One of my favorite quotes of all times:

“I will use big words from time to time, the meanings of which I may only vaguely perceive, in hopes such cupidity will send you scampering to your dictionary: I will call such behavior 'public service'.”
― Harlan Ellison

 

[XerXesXu]

Shrug. They're not idioms, they're dictionary definitions. I merely cited the very first dictionary definitions that popped up on my search page. I didn't bother going on down the page, because generally, when I do that, the meanings are repeated.

But here are the Cambridge Dictionary definitions, just so we have them:

instill

distill

So, British English, same primary meanings as cited above.

(I went looking for the OED online, but you have to subscribe to get to their dictionary, and I no longer have my two volume printed copy).

No, they're idioms. You do 'Strine so may be unfamiliar with them.

 

[ElectricBlue]

My belief is that @Omenainen confused "instill" with "infer."

To infer is to take one set of facts and arrive at some other conclusion, by implication.

To deduce is to take a set of facts and arrive at a conclusion by following a logically stated argument or process.

A deduction should end up being true, if the facts support the argument and the argument itself is sound. An inference may not be on such solid ground.

 

[ElectricBlue]

No, they're idioms. You do 'Strine so may be unfamiliar with them.

What bit of the Cambridge Dictionary "definitions" did you miss? I'm citing an authoritative dictionary, not some Australian pub quiz.

 

[XerXesXu]

What bit of the Cambridge Dictionary "definitions" did you miss? I'm citing an authoritative dictionary, not some Australian pub quiz.

I simply make the point that if you're familiar with British English you'd recognise these familiar idioms immediately. I didn't need to Google them, why should I? I've been speaking British English for over 70 years and I'm perfectly familiar with the idioms O confused. Even he seems to admit and understand the confusion. Let's leave the readers to decide whether 'instill' and 'distill' mean the same thing.

 

[SimonDoom]

What bit of the Cambridge Dictionary "definitions" did you miss? I'm citing an authoritative dictionary, not some Australian pub quiz.

You cannot argue with people who insist that they are the final authority on everything.

 

[XerXesXu]

You cannot argue with people who insist that they are the final authority on everything.

I can. Interesting to see EB go full KeithD, don't you think? " I have a book - bla bla bla". Mind you they're not the only ones. It's strange that those who seem to know the least about their native language buy, steal or borrow a book and take another's opinion as authoritative. I'm an authority on my own native language and I need no other.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I think the one time I deliberately used a word that most readers would never have seen ("heptatych"), it was specifically to convey that feeling of obscurity.

Like a triptych, only seven panels? That Catholic upbringing had to be useful for something...

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I think “deduce” was what I meant.

That would have been a more natural choice.

You distill the desired item out of an impure substance, but instill into a desired place. So you could have used either, except instill suggests shoving the new ideas into your brain (similar to install, here), whereas distill suggests the process of extracting them from the story.

Slightly different meanings - and when talking about new knowledge, I wouldn't say either was a usage common enough to be called an idiom in Britglish. EB is a generation older and idiom usage is often regional, so may have a different experience.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I simply make the point that if you're familiar with British English you'd recognise these familiar idioms immediately. I didn't need to Google them, why should I? I've been speaking British English for over 70 years and I'm perfectly familiar with the idioms O confused. Even he seems to admit and understand the confusion. Let's leave the readers to decide whether 'instill' and 'distill' mean the same thing.

So what you're saying is, Joe Blow reader knows more about word meanings than a whole coterie of dictionary compilers? That's Humpty Dumpty speaking, not philology.

 

[stickygirl]

She’d always felt drawn to trees for the calmness they instilled in her. Once she had distilled her ideas on arboreal metaphors she deduced that her feelings were purely imaginary and that she'd been barking up the wrong tree in trying to unravel her emotions.

 

[Voboy]

She’d always felt drawn to trees for the calmness they instilled in her. Once she had distilled her ideas on arboreal metaphors she deduced that her feelings were purely imaginary and that she'd been barking up the wrong tree in trying to unravel her emotions.

He replied to these threads because he cared about writing and thought he had something to offer to others who might have questions; he was always hoping to instill his wisdom into his fellow posters.

But, that day, he deduced they were mostly just interested in their opinions being the correct ones, so he shrugged and poured a distilled beverage while he watched the World Cup.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Like a triptych, only seven panels? That Catholic upbringing had to be useful for something...

That's right. I'd never actually seen it used, but it seemed like the logical extension of "diptych"/"triptych".

 

[SimonDoom]

It was?


It wasn’t?

How the fuck am I supposed to know if you folks can’t agree amongst yourself?

I love these conversations. Picky grammar disputes. I'm in!

I'm more with XXX on this one. It's subtle, but I think "distill" is better. The key is the use of the preposition "from." Typically, when you use the word "instill," you follow it with "into" not "from." If you had put "into those words and phrases" following "instill" it would be better.

To "distill" is to take something out of, and to "instill" is to put something into. The verb typically is followed by a prepositional phrase indicating the thing from which something is distilled or the thing into which something is instilled.

He instilled into his prose style a strong sense of discipline and economy.

His prose style was distilled from a lifelong habit of discipline and economy.

The best word in your sentence, IMO, is "infer."

"Deduce" is OK but I think "infer" is better. "Deduce" implies a logical conclusion that is compelled by something else. "Infer" is softer, and not necessarily purely logical.

I deduced from the presence of the dead body with the knife sticking out of it that a murder had occurred.

I inferred from his nervous demeanor in the presence of the dead body that he may have had something to do with the murder.

 

[Comshaw]

I thought about using the word "wont" in my story.
A friend of mine told a story about some years ago, when he leaned against an outhouse, and he said "as guys are wont to do."
Any thoughts on using unfamiliar phrases and getting negative comments on your story because not all readers may be familiar with the use of the word.

I must admit while I have heard the phrase, I had never heard of that word before. I was always under the impression the phrase was, "As young men are want to do." Which, although different in meaning of "wont" it does fit: "wont" accustomed to, "want" desire to. There might be a lot of readers out there who assume it was a misspelling. There will be a few (I do this) who go look it up to see if it is a word or not. From the first group you will get complaints about misspelling.

As for me, I've learned something. Another word to add and consider for use.

Comshaw

 

[stickygirl]

My sign off to this navel gazing etymological slapfest is that, it's how our words move people, the emotions we illicit, the sounds and rhythms of words, like drumbeats around the fireside of the cave.

"It is spring, moonless night in the small town, starless and bible-black, the cobbled streets silent and the hunched courters'-and-rabbits' wood limping invisible down to the sloeblack, slow, black, crowblack, fishingboat-bobbing sea."

Unravel that as you may, but I know how it makes me feel.

Same with
"And crumpled in his fist was a five-dollar bill
And the naked mannequins with their Cheshire grins,
And the raconteurs and roustabouts said buddy, come on in, 'cause
'Cause the dreams ain't broken down here now, they're walking with a limp"

Pour me a bourbon and lick me with your words

 

[MillieDynamite]

My sign off to this navel gazing etymological slapfest is that, it's how our words move people, the emotions we illicit, the sounds and rhythms of words, like drumbeats around the fireside of the cave.

"It is spring, moonless night in the small town, starless and bible-black, the cobbled streets silent and the hunched courters'-and-rabbits' wood limping invisible down to the sloeblack, slow, black, crowblack, fishingboat-bobbing sea."

Unravel that as you may, but I know how it makes me feel.

Same with
"And crumpled in his fist was a five-dollar bill
And the naked mannequins with their Cheshire grins,
And the raconteurs and roustabouts said buddy, come on in, 'cause
'Cause the dreams ain't broken down here now, they're walking with a limp"

Pour me a bourbon and lick me with your words

I read True Grit when I was 14, and the first words took hold of me, I had to continue.

"People do not give it credence that a fourteen-year-old girl could leave home and go off in the wintertime to avenge her father’s blood but it did not seem so strange then, although I will say it did not happen every day. I was just fourteen years of age when a coward going by the name of Tom Chaney shot my father down in Fort Smith, Arkansas, and robbed him of his life and his horse and $150 in cash money plus two California gold pieces that he carried in his trouser band."

She was the same age as me, she was going to avenge her father's death. I could relate to this. If someone hurt my foster father, now my adoptive father, I'd have gone after them just like her!

 

[stickygirl]

I read True Grit when I was 14, and the first words took hold of me, I had to continue.

"People do not give it credence that a fourteen-year-old girl could leave home and go off in the wintertime to avenge her father’s blood but it did not seem so strange then, although I will say it did not happen every day. I was just fourteen years of age when a coward going by the name of Tom Chaney shot my father down in Fort Smith, Arkansas, and robbed him of his life and his horse and $150 in cash money plus two California gold pieces that he carried in his trouser band."

She was the same age as me, she was going to avenge her father's death. I could relate to this. If someone hurt my foster father, now my adoptive father, I'd have gone after them just like her!

We should never lose sight of why we write

 

[MillieDynamite]

We should never lose sight of why we write

So true!

 

[Voboy]

We should never lose sight of why we write

...as we are wont to do...

 

[XerXesXu]

So what you're saying is, Joe Blow reader knows more about word meanings than a whole coterie of dictionary compilers? That's Humpty Dumpty speaking, not philology.

Exactly. As I suggested, leave it to the people you, contemptuously, refer to as 'Joe Blow' to decide. In their native language, do you instill 'in' and distill 'from', and has O, a speaker of English as a foreign language, confused these two words? I suggested he had, he agreed he had. But you think differently. You think, like Humpty, that words mean exactly what you say they mean, and you instill 'from'. You'd be better off brandishing works by Lewis Carroll than a dictionary by Phil Ology.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Exactly. As I suggested, leave it to the people you, contemptuously, refer to as 'Joe Blow' to decide. In their native language, do you instill 'in' and distill 'from', and has O, a speaker of English as a foreign language, confused these two words? I suggested he had, he agreed he had. But you think differently. You think, like Humpty, that words mean exactly what you say they mean, and you instill 'from'. You'd be better off brandishing works by Lewis Carroll than a dictionary by Phil Ology.

Another word you might want to parse is "she".

 

[XerXesXu]

Another word you might want to parse is "she".

Why would I? Is it something you want to do? Just do it, don't be shy.