Underage incest fantasys

[oggbashan]

One of my daughters, when 15, obtained membership of a local night club for over 21s. She was 5 foot 10 inches tall then in her bare feet and of course she was wearing high heels. Her escort, aged 23, had to produce identity documents. My daughter was admitted without question.

Dad didn't find out until the night club sent her a 25th birthday card on her 18th birthday and she admitted the deception...

Og

 

[amicus]

Uh yes.

It still is 15 in my neck of the woods. Has been for the last 60 years. Before that there were no age laws. Just some vague "parental approval" clause.

Now... I wouldn't boink a 15 year old girl even if I had the chance though. I just temp teached a class full of them, and was reminded of exactly how small they are. They have the curves, and they dress and occasionally act like full grown women (I know a handful who are more mentally mature than most grownups I encounter), but... the scale is all off. I'd be afraid that I'd break something.

~~~

If you are a 'temp' and just taught a class full of them, let's at least be honest here, Liar...

I was a newspaper reporter in a small town and covered school events for years, grade school, middle school and high school, plays, choir, and sporting events, anything that parent might want to read about and know about and see their kids pictures in the paper.

'Boinking' one was never the question nor the issue, staying out of their grasp, was. I learned very quickly to never be alone with a student or even students, without an adult teacher present, as those nasty little girls would do just about anything to get their names mentioned and their pictures in the paper.

So at least be honest about the issue. I knew many teachers, men, who warned me about the proclivities of these young vixens beginning in 6th and seventh grade and I heeded their warnings.

Since I raised children, five of them girls, it came as quite a surprise to me to realize what I was being told, since my girls never acted that way around me.

As I said in another post it is sometimes amusing to watch these young ladies perfect their techniques as they are somewhat awkward and unsure as they test the waters. I am sure some would take advantage of that and exploit the circumstance. That is the nature of the game, there are perverts among us, teachers and reporters alike; but for the most part, we know better and act accordingly.

And small and fragile? You gotta be kidding! I covered sports and most, not just some, but most of those young girls could whup you if they had a mind to.

And mental and psychological age? Shit, you have never raised a teenager who can twist an old man around their fingers to acquire a $200.00 prom dress they will wear once.

C'mon...fess up.

Amicus...

 

[amicus]

Thanks Ogg...we posted almost simultaneously I think...


Amicus...

 

[Liar]

And small and fragile? You gotta be kidding! I covered sports and most, not just some, but most of those young girls could whup you if they had a mind to.

Just reportin' what I see. I'm a big guy. They're not. Niether guys nor big. A 15 year old is not fully grown. It's biological fact. Not even you can argue with that, ami.

And mental and psychological age? Shit, you have never raised a teenager who can twist an old man around their fingers to acquire a $200.00 prom dress they will wear once.

I've never raised a teen girl, no. Not sure what you're saying. Nor how that addressed what I said.

 

[amicus]

Damnit, Liar, I am not trying to be argumentative, but a 13 year old girl, five foot four inches, 120 pounds, C cup, 23 inch waist and 34 inch hips, in peak physical shape, is a woman, physically.

Mentally, she is not, we all know that, thas why we protect our daughters, because she is a fully functioning female, fertile and curious, and we know that also.

Most, not all, are also innocent at that age, you can see it in their eyes and the way they carry their sex.

My point in joining this thread, in all of this, is, it should be thought about, explored and written about, not prohibited, banned, censored, abolished or blushed about. Thas all...

Amicus...

 

[Liar]

Damnit, Liar, I am not trying to be argumentative, but a 13 year old girl, five foot four inches, 120 pounds, C cup, 23 inch waist and 34 inch hips, in peak physical shape, is a woman, physically.

Wow. I wish that's how most teen chicks looked when I was a teen. If that's how you picture most 13 year old girls, you may have read too many underage porn stories on the Internet. Granted, puberty is an uneven race, and a few develop adult features earlier than others. But dam, man I don't even know what you're arguing about. Girls in their early teens are de facto generally smaller in stature and build than women in their 20's. that's not to say some of them can pass as older. Of course they can. A few even after a conversation.

My point in joining this thread, in all of this, is, it should be thought about, explored and written about, not prohibited, banned, censored, abolished or blushed about. Thas all...

That, I do agree with.

 

[oggbashan]

Wow. I wish that's how most teen chicks looked when I was a teen. If that's how you picture most 13 year old girls, you may have read too many underage porn stories on the Internet. Granted, puberty is an uneven race, and a few develop adult features earlier than others. But dam, man I don't even know what you're arguing about. Girls in their early teens are de facto generally smaller in stature and build than women in their 20's.
...

If you had said "Most girls in their early teens are de facto..." then I might have agreed with you but my daughter and a couple of their friends were tall and well developed at Primary School (up to age 11). My daughter and another even larger girl were taller than most of the staff. As for build? Some of the ten-year-olds had larger breasts than the average adult woman.

There are extremes as well. One of my elder daughter's school friends was six feet three inches tall at age 12. Her adult height is six feet five inches. At 12 she was not a skinny rake but solid and muscular (and a great asset to the school's basketball team).

Og

 

[Weird Harold]

Damnit, Liar, I am not trying to be argumentative, but a 13 year old girl, five foot four inches, 120 pounds, C cup, 23 inch waist and 34 inch hips, in peak physical shape, is a woman, physically.

Wow. I wish that's how most teen chicks looked when I was a teen. If that's how you picture most 13 year old girls, you may have read too many underage porn stories on the Internet.

Save that he got the height wrongs, Amicus just described my elder granddaughter -- and three-quarters of the guests at her thirteenth birthday party.

I think Amicus exagerates the numbers of underage stalkers but he does point out a serious flaw in age of consent laws -- if a minor is legally incapable of giving consent, they are also legally incapable of deception, seduction or entrapment, which places the victims of deliberate misrepresenations of age in a very difficult legal position.

 

[emap]

I think I'd rather go back to penis envy discussions.

When I was 13 let me think been a while. Ok I got it when I was thirteen I was 5'1" had at most an A cup, was rather shy around men and boys, and using my whiles was a little later in coming than most apparently. I had just dicovered that boys were not icky, and actually cute and I knew I wanted to do something with them, but not what really. Suppose it helps when I was thirteen there was no internet or home computer.

I did not learn what I wanted to let boys do to me until the next year in high school, some of those cheerleaders really did live up to the stereotype. Not that I was pure and chaste either.

I think I was 5'1", may have been a little taller, I had a growth spurt a few times in high school. Which is also when I started using my whiles, though not to often, small town and information tended to get passed around. I have no idea how exactly I did not get busted or killed for doing all the sex I did in high school. I only had that talk a couple times with my parents.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Damnit, Liar, I am not trying to be argumentative, but a 13 year old girl, five foot four inches, 120 pounds, C cup, 23 inch waist and 34 inch hips, in peak physical shape, is a woman, physically...

Yep, that was me. But I was a D cup... much to my dismay.

But I was definitely "bigger" than most of my classmates. Sets you up for an eating disorder quite nicely, that...

 

[Weird Harold]

Yep, that was me. But I was a D cup... much to my dismay.

But I was definitely "bigger" than most of my classmates. Sets you up for an eating disorder quite nicely, that...

Breast Fairy had you on speed-dial, did she?

Eating disorders, posture problems, and a bunch self-esteem issues are certainly lurking about waiting to pounce on "early-bloomers" -- not to mention "older boys" looking for naive girlfriends.

My eldest daughter was a favorite of the breast fairy, too. She managed to avoid the eating disorders and posture problems somehow, and self-esteem was never a problem for her. I'm not sure what we, her parents, did right, but it obviously worked -- I suspect treating her like a rational being from an early age had a lot to do with the way she handled puberty.

 

[emap]

That always helps. Can't tell you how often I would cringe when one of my freinds parents would tell them no you won't do that because you want to do this. Usually in relation to a sport or music class. My parents let me do what I wanted to be doing, which was cheerleader and a few things they suspected though haven't asked about.

I suppose I was lucky in I was partially a late bloomer, I did not get D cups until my senior year, well actually part of the way through junior though slowly, my bra's just got tight and that summer we went to buy me new ones.

Though I am lucky, I was a tomboy, and cheerleader so my back hasn't been a problem for me. My mom likes to say that god was looking out for me and made me want to be that active, I have it on good authority my mom was active to.

 

[amicus]

The last few comments bring another aspect to mind; that of 'pecking order' among young girls as they begin to blossom at different ages and the pressures, peer and otherwise they encounter in a very social setting such as a school.

I understand how a boy developes and competes and challenges to secure his place in the order, or not, on dozens of levels, intellectual, physical, status wise with all the variables of the home situation factored in.

But with girls, even though I most likely have more exposure than most with my own, it still remains speculation and largely a mystery as to the true inner workings of a girls mind as she passes through the 'tomboy' stage.

I have an online friend, a girl I have chatted with since she was eleven, who missed out on all the early years because of home schooling and being confined for medical reasons to almost total isolation from real experiences with people.

She is now in college and dating, for the first time ever and experiencing all the jealousies and cat fights and competition for boys and she is now learning all the things she should have learned when she was just entering puberty.

Happily, she feels free enough to discuss some of her experiences with me, really just a stranger on the screen but I seem to be an outlet, a sounding board as apparently no one else is close enough to her that she can share with. And I do learn a great deal from her casual chatter about boys and clothes and other girls and all the things she is going through.

And I find myself drawing upon our conversations when I begin writing about what young women think about as they mature.

Amicus...

 

[SlickTony]

Even back in the old days, before every bit (non-organic) milk and meat we ate was filled with hormones, before we had girls getting their periods at 10, I knew girls like Amicus described.

As someone who was a runt in middle school and only started to grow in high school, did not have a waist to hip ratio to write home about, and kept A cups until she started breastfeeding, I hated them one and all.

 

[Pure]

there is some strange stuff in this thread, it goes from 'there are c cup 13 year olds' to 'they are clever seducers and a danger to male-kind.'

it's as if physical maturity leads to general sophistication, though people deny making that implausible equation.

i'd submit that, in general, the c-cups' 'danger' is more to themselves.

as to "deliberate misreprentation", mentioned by Weird H. it is certainly a problem on the 'net, though not limited to sex. in real life i think it's adequately covered by such concepts as 'due dilligence' [in seeking proof of age] and mitigating circumstances. also it should depend on the "use" one is contemplating: e.g. taking her to a movie as compared with treating her as a hooker and paying for sex.

that said, i agree that most kids post puberty are "over-protected", as the term is used, which is to say, limited and confined and made into children, indeed NOT protected, by developing character, from the experiences of real life.

 

[amicus]

Some one besides myself, please, advise Pure, to only plagarize, copy and paste and cherry pick and omit to make a point, for when his/hers/its, real thoughts are exposed they are completely beyond comprehension outside its own convoluted thought processes.

Seasons Greetings...

Ami

 

[Pure]

it's a bad thing to be 'beyond [the] comprehension" of amicus?

 

[amicus]

Oh, know, you got that wrong, Pure, as you usually do, I understood perfectly every thing your nasty little mind insinuated...my point was, most won't, so you waste your effort...

One learns early, in mass communications, to communicate first with the lowest common denominator and then include sophistications as one chooses.

Lesson are a grand an hour, want some?



Ami

 

[Pure]

ami my point was, most won't [understand]

the gift of your superior mind, to this forum, is universally appreciated.

 

[Weird Harold]

as to "deliberate misreprentation", mentioned by Weird H. it is certainly a problem on the 'net, though not limited to sex. in real life i think it's adequately covered by such concepts as 'due dilligence' [in seeking proof of age] and mitigating circumstances.

"Deliberate misrepresentation" -- such as the example Ogg gave of a club sending his daughter a "Happy 25th" card on her Eighteenth -- IS covered by the concept of "due dilligence" right up to the point where sexual contact becomes involved; then "ignorance is no excuse" becomes the predominant legal theory.

I'm sure that if you cared enough to search for them, there are numerous examples of men charged with "molesting a minor" when all they did was go to a club, pick up a girl and trust the doorman to have recognised her phony ID.

 

[WRJames]

I put up a post on GB last summer on the topic of age of consent laws -- sparked by that awful case in Georgia where a 19 year old was sent to prison for getting a blow job from a fifteen year old.

My point was that age of consent laws are extraneous -- non consent is non consent no matter what the age. You shouldn't need some arbitrary age standard. What makes enforcement of these laws troubling is so many cases where it seems clear that the younger party was capable of granting informed consent, but the fiction of the law results in unfair prosecutions and convictions.

This does not mean that incest, sexual abuse of children or adult predation are okay -- just that if that is what we are trying to prevent, the age of consent laws are a clumsy and archaic way of doing it.

As for writing about these things -- one role of literature is to light up the dark areas of the human soul. Sometimes we don't like what we see, but not looking at it is even more dangerous.

 

[Stella_Omega]

As for daddy/daughter incest stories. I've written a few. The first one I wrote for a contest here at Lit was quite well received. Lost Souls explores more than the daddy/daughter thing, but as you mentioned a comment, I'll mention two of my most cherished:

Touching. Tantalizing. Sacredly profane.
10/04/05 by SouthSkyEyes in Michigan
I abhor the practice of incest between parent and child but this story surely transcends taboos. A deliciously haunting glimpse into the sacredly profane, within us all. A superbly written piece, exposing that human desire and lust surely run deeper than social conditioning, exposing the deep insight and liberated erotic mind of the author. Ahhhh!

Superb and delicious
10/01/05 by BlackShanglan
Rich, erotic, sensual and filled with ripe temptation. I was utterly charmed. As one not normally a reader in this category, I found this especially delightful in the way in which, like Lily, I was drawn into a beauty and pleasure that all of my moral sentiments protested. Well done indeed. As far as the contest goes, it will be a pleasure to lose to you!

Well, I read your story, and nope-- I think I can say conclusively that this is a perversion I can't share in.

I love your writing, as always, but from the beginning, your description of her fundamentalist life filled me with pity and foreboding. Fundamentalism is as restricting as slavery-- especially for women. It seems to me that this is the only way you can set up a premise like this.

In fact, every word of your story negates the premise that Ami was defending-- that the girl "asks for it." It never occurred to her to want her father-- she wanted a boy her own age, Luke. Luke is an innocent bystander in the plot, and would offer her something closer to a normal adult functionality. But she is denied that.

Instead, her father calls her a whore, spanks her, soothes her, demands that she admit to being horrible and sinful, stimulates her clit, gives her forgiveness, and allows her, in her gratitude to fuck him.
""Did you?" he demanded again. "Did you let him know you in the Biblical sense?"

"No, Daddy," she whispered. "No, we didn't, I swear." Her whole backside was tingling and felt raw.

"But you're a liar, aren't you, Lily?" he crooned, his hand still moving over her bottom, as if he were in a trance. "How can I know that?" She stared back at him, unsure.
"
He manipulates her all the way. "god won't let you be tempted beyond what you can bear" he says, and then; "tempt me not, lily."



It really does make me nauseous. And now I know why-- not because of the incest in itself, but because she never has a choice. She's never going to be an adult. She will live her entire live "atoning for her sins." This is not erotic to me, and never ever will be. It's ghastly.

You're a helluva writer!

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

It really does make me nauseous. And now I know why-- not because of the incest in itself, but because she never has a choice. She's never going to be an adult. She will live her entire live "atoning for her sins." This is not erotic to me, and never ever will be. It's ghastly.

You're a helluva writer!

Yes, she is.

Another helluva writer, Nabokov, set the standard for portraying the sexually aware nymphette. At first, Lolita was eager for sexual adventure with her step-father, Humbert Humbert. But once they became lovers, she lacked the emotional maturity and chronological age needed to deal with the ramifications.

IMHO, WRJames made a very valid point a couple posts ago:

My point was that age of consent laws are extraneous -- non consent is non consent no matter what the age. You shouldn't need some arbitrary age standard. What makes enforcement of these laws troubling is so many cases where it seems clear that the younger party was capable of granting informed consent, but the fiction of the law results in unfair prosecutions and convictions.

This does not mean that incest, sexual abuse of children or adult predation are okay -- just that if that is what we are trying to prevent, the age of consent laws are a clumsy and archaic way of doing it.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[pellso27]

I would like to find a female partner for a story along these lines any takers pm me

 

[amicus]

Still proceeding from the premise that this area of human behavior should be considered, thought about, written about and not treated as a taboo subject for literature, I cautiously venture forth from a new perspective.

Please accept this as hypothetical and interrogative and not an individual or personal advocacy or prefence.

First, let us say that I have a story of brother/sister incest with the following stipulations: twins, eighteen years old, meets the requirement for publication on Lit. Living together all their lives, never before did they feel a sense of attraction to each other. Although both have dated and 'fooled around', neither have consumated intercourse.

The sister undergoes a terribly traumatic event that renders her emotionally destroyed; she cannot function. The brother wants to help but does not know how or what to do. He wants to hold and comfort her but she cannot bear to even have him near, let alone touch her.

She begins sobbing uncontrollably and the brother embraces her because he cannot bear to listen and watch without doing something.

You can take it from there, but to complicate matters even more, as a supposition, let me suggest or postulate that they fall in love and wish to spend their lives together.

Izzat grist for the literary mill or still so taboo that it nauseates you, as someone said.

Stretching your credibility to the utmost, let us add a father/daughter and a mother/son scenario, with of course the added ingredients of age and emotional maturity taken into consideration.

Supposing, again for the purpose of discussion and with the stipulation that there is no coercion in any way, supposing that circumstance and proximity places two people, chronological age basically disregarded but pedophilia not an ingredient, if you follow my reasoning.

Supposing that comfort to get through a traumatic event, in the form of a physical embrace is the catalyst and it could be from either party as a young person might well console a grief stricken parent.

There are many pitfalls in the genre and I am certain you can visualize all of them, but again, I offer those ideas as theoretical story lines and I maintain they are valid areas of artistic consideration.

What say you?


Amicus...