Underage incest fantasys

[gauchecritic]

This I have seen.

 

[neonlyte]

Late to the feast.

http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

Setting aside the issue of coersion (in all its guises) it appears the majority of nations and thus opinion (?) outlaw sex between a minor and an adult, though sex between consenting minors - from the age of 12 - is acceptable in some nations including Canada. Maybe writers should find sites to host their stories in those countries where sex with minors is deemed permissible?

 

[Pure]

i believe the new conservative gov of canada has raised the age of consent to 16.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Let me just say that I see and feel the resistance you're speaking of, Ami.

I don't see that, Selena-- I see the usual resistance towards an unpleasant personality.

It is quite true that the fantasy of father-daughter incest doesn't hold any appeal to me. I cannot imagine being the daughter taken by her father, nor can I imagine being a father who fucks his daughter. That's my opinion, and a matter of taste. (But in my stories here, I notice, I've got two couples who play "Daddy" and "Little girl." As it happens they are both dyke couples, I don't know if that makes it any different for you!)


I fail to see how my strongly expressed opinion is in any way censorship, though. Nor do I see that my quibbling with Ami about his "facts" is censorship. If he, or you, want to convince me that Father/Daughter incest has an erotic component that I am blind to-- you have only to unleash your eloquence. I'm a pushover that way!

Someone very important to me-- many of us-- said this in a review of one of my harder-core BDSM stories;
[

B]I don't venture[/B]
10/22/05 By: Colleen Thomas in USA
...to this category often. Not that it isn't my bag, I tend to enjoy some of the milder aspects in my own life, but I also know I don't get the full effect from the heavier shades....
...The erotic content may not have ben entierly to my tastes, but perhaps the best comment I can give is that I did find it erotic. It takes a deft hand to carry that across boundaries a reader may feel are sacrosanct...

Do that to me, Selena!
Do that to me, Amicus!

 

[amicus]

This is only tangentially germane to the thread in general, but I really don't want to begin a new one and I don't want to let this slip on by.

Age is perhaps the largest contributor to 'old man, younger girl' fantasies, and if you are not there yet, hang around, it can happen to you.

But the film 'Breezy' was on last evening and as I watched it I realized that perhaps that film too, contributed to my interest in writing such stories.

Kay Ann Lenz

Date of Birth
4 March 1953, Los Angeles, California, USA

Kay came from an L.A. showbiz family. Her father was producer/commentator Ted Lenz and her mother model/radio engineer Kay Miller Lenz. At the ripe old age of eight weeks, Kay appeared on her first TV show produced by her dad as a baby being held up and sung to. She continued on in her father's TV shows and commercials throughout her childhood. In the 60s, she appeared as a teen on stage (Pasadena Playhouse) and in guest parts on "The Monroes" (1966), "The Andy Griffith Show" (1960) and "Ironside" (1967). Kay flirted with 70s film stardom after being cast by director Clint Eastwood in the film Breezy (1973) opposite William Holden as a plucky, troubled hippie/free spirit who has an affair with a much older businessman. Kay was singled out for her affecting performance but the film was ignored. She ventured on but none of her subsequent feisty roles in White Line Fever (1975), The Great Scout & Cathouse Thursday (1976), Mean Dog Blues (1978) and House (1986) put her over the top. She gained quite a bit of exposure, however, after her wedding to former teen idol David Cassidy in 1977. The marriage lasted six years. TV remained Kay's medium of choice and she has garnered two Emmy awards in the process.

"Breezy" 1973 William Holden, Kay Ann Lenz

Breezy is a teen-aged hippy with a big heart. After taking a a ride with a man who only wants her for sex, Breezy manages to escape. She runs to hide on a secluded property where stands the home of a middle-aged divorced man, Frank Harmon. Frank reluctantly takes Breezy in only to fall unexpectedly in love with her. Written by Kelly

Plot Synopsis:

Edith Alice "Breezy" Breezerman (Kay Lenz) is a carefree young hippie. Frank Harmon (William Holden) is a divorced, middle-aged real estate agent. During the film they fall in love, and each teaches the other a little about life.

Kay Lenz, born in 1953, was about 20 when 'Breezy', was released, the character was portrayed as a recent high school graduate, as the screen writer's tidied things up so she could be of legal age.

She played the role of a long haired teenaged hippy girl, into free love and all of that and the dialogue left the possibility that she could be anywhere in age from about 14 on up, probably 16 at best.

William Holden, plays 'Frankie', gray hair, divorced, cynical, in his mid 50's I would guess.

For 1973, this was a very risque venture, I would think and the film did not do well at the box office.

But this could well have been a father/daughter scenario for while not incestial, it surely was, 'robbing the cradle' so to speak.

My point is, kinda, that the film illustrated a girl disheartened by the lack of genuine love in her life, men wanted her for sex only, found love in an older man. And the older bitter man, found a renewal of life in her youth and relative innocence.

Some very good lines and moments in this film if you enjoy such things.

Amicus...

 

[Stella_Omega]

But the film 'Breezy' was on last evening and as I watched it I realized that perhaps that film too, contributed to my interest in writing such stories......
My point is, kinda, that the film illustrated a girl disheartened by the lack of genuine love in her life, men wanted her for sex only, found love in an older man. And the older bitter man, found a renewal of life in her youth and relative innocence.
Amicus...

Thanks, Amicus, That's what I wanted!

 

[ms.read]

i believe the new conservative gov of canada has raised the age of consent to 16.

OMG IT WAS LOWER THAN THAT

 

[ms.read]

~~~

Aww, shucks, starrkers, I had a small sliver of hope that the tiny thread of rationality I thought I perceived in you would grow.

I present a position, in opposition to the coven of liberals here, and they pounce, with pejoratives and name calling and I should turn the other cheek or go tits up?

If you follow any of my continued postings you will note that I never initiate rude behavior, never, but also, I never fail to respond in kind to the brutes.

But, if you feel more secure cozying up to the herd, then by all means do so, who needs you anyway?

Amicus...

Excuse me but you called me an ostrich with my head in the sand.... I DID NOT START THAT NEENER NEENER NEEENER! and I wont lower myself to call you a naughty name... you might like that too much! *wink*

 

[snowy ciara]

Well everything is interesting to someone, just certain ones are only interesting to a small few.

So funny thing, I new Dixon was old, but I had no idea that old. I don't usually peak at the side and see join dates and such.

Rifraff, as has been said, being forced to have sex for the first time with your own father is not common and leads to a woman having serious problems. I did not sleep with my father, don't have any desire to either, though I was somewhat forced into having sex my first time. Look at what I have done, I have slept around on many of my boyfriends, I slept with men I met in a bar, in the bar or behind it many times and I am rather fixated on sex.

Far as I know that is one of the signs of a young abuse victim, either they turn into a nymphomaniac, I'm close mind you, or they turn away from sex almost totally, regardless of their sexual desires they do not want to have sex.

If my dad forced me into having sex with him for my first time, you know what I would be doing now? Not having sex, it's not erotic, it's not anything but oh my god get off me. The emotions are not erotic, they are horror.

Now I'm going to give you a little bugger, wanting to be a woman taken by her father is something a submissive would want. Not by a father mind, but the simple fact of being taken sounds really good to a submissive. The fact you want to be the daughter says you want to be taken fully under the control of someone, used for their pleasure and not yours. Why? Because being taken by your father is really not erotic and not pleasurable, it is simply a matter of laying there and being used.

Hi, I bolded the bit I wanted to address, but I quoted it all because I couldn't find a good snippage point.

This is not necessarily true. Not all submissives are driven by a need to be taken. Many submissives are service driven, not "use me for the slut I want to be be" or "slut I am" driven. And frequently, if a submissive's moral compass says that incest is wrong, they would not be able to fully commit to an incest fantasy without severe emotional distress. So even if they want to lay there and be used, most decent and compassionate Dominants will not force a fantasy that would hurt rather than turn on. The "lay there and be used" thing is all the reason why "all submissives have a rape fantasy." Trust me. We don't. Many do, but a lot of us don't. So while the Rifraff may have an incest fantasy where she is taken by her father and not able to resist for whatever reason, we shouldn't assume she's a submissive or bottom because of it.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I don't see that, Selena-- I see the usual resistance towards an unpleasant personality.

Oh, no, I wasn't talking about THAT resistance. I was talking about the initial thread and the prevailing attitude toward this idea whenever someone posts about it. This thread, since it's been brought back up, has been an open discussion, and quite a civil one... no complaints there.

It's interesting though, how, whenever this subject gets mentioned, detractors are insistent to point out "NOT ON LIT!!" as they always do in their Laurel/Manu-defending ways, as if that precludes talking about the subject at all? I've found, across the board (literally... ha) this to be quite a taboo subject where most folks don't want to go. Any underage sex between an older man and younger woman (or vice versa) is simply "WRONG." period, end of story. No shades of gray in between. Is life really so simple, so uncomplicatedly morally righteous? I just don't think so.

The original poster, you note, wasn't asking about posting these stories on Lit. But of course, that had to be brought up. As if we don't read or know the rules? Even when people do SAY they know them, others have to jump in with the "line in the sand." This original poster, though, was asking, "Are my fantasies okay? Am I okay?" And the overwhelming response to that? NO.

That's just so not right. Thinking is not a crime. Incest fantasies are NOT A CRIME. Underage incest fantasies are NOT A CRIME. Underage SEX in this country is a crime. But that's not what we're talking about. If you start down the road to "Thinking leads to doing" - oh hell, I'll let Pure take that one on. He's much more eloquent than I am and less emotional about it. He can give you all the analogies about violence/murder, rape fantasies/rape etc. etc.

I've actually heard ideas expressed here on this thread which are thrillingly open to me, and that I'm grateful for.

As for daddy/daughter incest stories. I've written a few. The first one I wrote for a contest here at Lit was quite well received. Lost Souls explores more than the daddy/daughter thing, but as you mentioned a comment, I'll mention two of my most cherished:

Touching. Tantalizing. Sacredly profane.
10/04/05 by SouthSkyEyes in Michigan
I abhor the practice of incest between parent and child but this story surely transcends taboos. A deliciously haunting glimpse into the sacredly profane, within us all. A superbly written piece, exposing that human desire and lust surely run deeper than social conditioning, exposing the deep insight and liberated erotic mind of the author. Ahhhh!

Superb and delicious
10/01/05 by BlackShanglan
Rich, erotic, sensual and filled with ripe temptation. I was utterly charmed. As one not normally a reader in this category, I found this especially delightful in the way in which, like Lily, I was drawn into a beauty and pleasure that all of my moral sentiments protested. Well done indeed. As far as the contest goes, it will be a pleasure to lose to you!

 

[amicus]

Selena...

"...That's just so not right. Thinking is not a crime. .."

~~~

I think I love your mind, will you marry me?



Ami

 

[ms.read]

selena would you post a link please.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Selena,

When I first read both the original post and the newer one, I was thinking the other way-- that these were both men who wanted to fantasise about fucking their daughters.

And when someone says "I'd love to read that story" and they are posting on lit, I'd want to remind that person (who has one post to their name) that he won't read it on lit-- the place where he posted that request, after all.

I know that people aren't used to speaking precisely, but-- if the dude had said "I wish some woman would share her fantasy about being taken by her father" it would have gotten a response from me a world away from "A woman's experience..."

 

[emap]

Hi, I bolded the bit I wanted to address, but I quoted it all because I couldn't find a good snippage point.

This is not necessarily true. Not all submissives are driven by a need to be taken. Many submissives are service driven, not "use me for the slut I want to be be" or "slut I am" driven. And frequently, if a submissive's moral compass says that incest is wrong, they would not be able to fully commit to an incest fantasy without severe emotional distress. So even if they want to lay there and be used, most decent and compassionate Dominants will not force a fantasy that would hurt rather than turn on. The "lay there and be used" thing is all the reason why "all submissives have a rape fantasy." Trust me. We don't. Many do, but a lot of us don't. So while the Rifraff may have an incest fantasy where she is taken by her father and not able to resist for whatever reason, we shouldn't assume she's a submissive or bottom because of it.

Hmmm, my bad I meant to put a some or many in there.

Though I am pretty sure Riffraff is male, hence the woman's perspective on the whole icky thing.

 

[Stella_Omega]

ETA;

Good Christ on a bagel, I just went back and re-read-- CAREFULLY- both posts. Now i feel like a complete idiot, and you have proved your point, my darling kitten! Talk about kneejerk, I couldn't possibly have read either post all the way through.

Point taken, lesson learned. Again. And Amicus, my sincere apologies to you.

WTF, Stella, you can be such an asshole sometimes...

 

[Guest]

I was born on South America. On the last year of private elementary school (aged 12-13) one of my English teachers hooked up with a classmate with the consent of her mother.

They held hands during recess and all. Talk about cultural differences!

I think I even heard about a pamphlet the US government took out to educate Latina teens about having contact with older men. It was styled like a fotonovela.

Ok, I am done shocking you.

Maharat

 

[Selena_Kitt]

ETA;

Good Christ on a bagel, I just went back and re-read-- CAREFULLY- both posts. Now i feel like a complete idiot, and you have proved your point, my darling kitten! Talk about kneejerk, I couldn't possibly have read either post all the way through.

Point taken, lesson learned. Again. And Amicus, my sincere apologies to you.

WTF, Stella, you can be such an asshole sometimes...

Don't beat yourself up. Lots and lots and lots of people do this all over these boards. All throughout our culture. It's a majority-knee-jerk reaction, it seems.

And you know IU...

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Selena...

~~~

I think I love your mind, will you marry me?



Ami

S&D beat you to it!

selena would you post a link please.

To what?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Don't beat yourself up. Lots and lots and lots of people do this all over these boards. All throughout our culture. It's a majority-knee-jerk reaction, it seems.

And you know IU...

I kiss your boots!

(that's a knee-jerk reaction, too)

 

[snowy ciara]

Hmmm, my bad I meant to put a some or many in there.

Though I am pretty sure Riffraff is male, hence the woman's perspective on the whole icky thing.

NP... I missed the gender thing too. Going back and rereading I think he was a he too. That actually is something I sort of understand. Not fantasizing about Daddy/daughter incest, but fantasizing that you're of the opposite gender. Fantasies where I'm a guy instead of a girl knock my socks off.

 

[emap]

Yeah though weird thing, I am almost always fantasizing about being a gay bottom man.

Not that I didn't know I need therapy anyway.

 

[Stella_Omega]

And thus we come right back to that *other* topic...

 

[emap]

Oh my, I am lost, which other topic?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Oh my, I am lost, which other topic?

Penis envy

 

[Liar]

OMG IT WAS LOWER THAN THAT

Uh yes.

It still is 15 in my neck of the woods. Has been for the last 60 years. Before that there were no age laws. Just some vague "parental approval" clause.

Now... I wouldn't boink a 15 year old girl even if I had the chance though. I just temp teached a class full of them, and was reminded of exactly how small they are. They have the curves, and they dress and occasionally act like full grown women (I know a handful who are more mentally mature than most grownups I encounter), but... the scale is all off. I'd be afraid that I'd break something.