Two Masters?

[lil_pooka]

A friend, who is submissive, is strongly considering joining the military. I've been thinking about this alot and I'm not sure I'd be able to do it and maintain a D/s relationship as well. It would be almost like belonging to two people, Uncle Sam and her PYL. Maybe I'm over complicating, I do that sometimes. And yes, I understand that every relationship is different but I'd thought I'd ask for your thoughts on this.

 

[WriterDom]

It's just a job. Unless of course she gets sent to Iraq. Then staying alive will take priority.

 

[the captians wench]

It's just a job. Unless of course she gets sent to Iraq. Then staying alive will take priority.

I disagree. My brother is currently inlisted and we keep trying to tell his wife that Uncle Sam owns his ass now. She gets angry because she can't call him at certian times, or he won't write for a week because he's on a training gig and can't. She's gotten in trouble a few times because she's involved the red cross because of something she thought she should be able to do that he couldn't at the moment.

 

[FurryFury]

It depends on if your D/s relationship can survive separation or not. Enlisting will certainly change your life, a lot. This is something you and your SO need to talk about together.

Fury

 

[WriterDom]

A lot of people have jobs where they travel as well. Other than periods of separation, I don't see the conflict.

 

[ownedsubgal]

i would agree that with a job/career such as the military, a person would indeed be serving 2 Masters. there are some Dominants who believe that a submissive with ANY job is serving another Master, and for that reason would not allow their submissive or more commonly, their slave, to work. i wouldn't go quite that far, some jobs are more flexible than others. but i certainly understand the concept.

if there are times when your career must come first...when you must choose serving your career before serving your Master...if you cannot obey an order from your Master to take a day off at a moment's notice, or even quit...then i would say that the job is your true Master. for that reason i couldn't have a demanding career, and certainly not a military position as those people are truly at the mercy of the government.

 

[lil_pooka]

Thanks for the replies, I'll certainly relay the thoughts to her.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

For the record there are Dominants in the military as well as submissives. My Husband/Daddy has been in the US Army for 21 years and will be putting in for His retirement soon.

The military is just a job folks.

 

[callinectes]

Huh. I guess my job is my true master then. Or..is it my child? Damn, I am confused now.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Huh. I guess my job is my true master then. Or..is it my child? Damn, I am confused now.

*grins* same here, cause uh...yea i'm assuming Master would never ask me to 'quit' my job, or just take a day off on the spur of the moment, but IF He did, i'd have to probably tell Him i couldn't, if that makes me not submissive or my job my 'true Master' then so be it, but i need that weekly paycheck to put food on the table for my kids and buy them all that stuff they 'need'

but more on the topic, i think it's great that that is the career your friend wants to have and i see it no differently than any other job that a submissive (or human being for that matter) would take and i'm not sure what it has to do with the D/s dynamic....i guess i kind of see how your friend would be 'owned' by the government but i still don't see what the job has to do with the D/s dynamic *shrugs* just my two cents....

 

[MasterPhoenix]

Its fun to call in sick once in a while for some hanky panky....

Seriously, maintaing a job or a career is not a validation of one's Dom or subness as I said In another thread.

I do think that the millitary would but a bit of an additioanl strain as the Army has much more control of a soldier's life than any other job. (Oh by the way you are getting transferred to timbuktu.) But in the end, there is only one who is the master of the heart.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Huh. I guess my job is my true master then. Or..is it my child? Damn, I am confused now.

in your case, perhaps both are your true Masters. but there are many who hold down a full-time job and have children as well, yet there is never any question that their Master comes first. and i certainly admire those women.

 

[Shankara20]

I joined the Navy on a 180 day delay program, during the time between enlisting and showing up for boot camp I got married. It was in 1966 during the Viet Nam adventure and I was 19 years old. The U.S. Navy was not happy about that at all. I was told so damn many times that “had the Navy wanted you to have a family we would have issued you one” and during the 4 ½ years I was serving they did very little to accommodate my family. My two sons were born during that time and the medical service was excellent.

I did not reenlist despite that fact that I loved being in the Navy. I had to decide between staying in the service or being a husband and father in the way I wanted to be – and the fact that I had a habit of coming home Friday evenings drunk from lunches that lasted 6 hours at strip clubs with all the guys from my shop on base. This is not a put down to the military in general, just an statement about my experience.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

in your case, perhaps both are your true Masters. but there are many who hold down a full-time job and have children as well, yet there is never any question that their Master comes first. and i certainly admire those women.

hmmm..i don't think i could 'admire' any woman who puts their Man before their children. my children are my life, and most Dom's i know, wouldn't have it any other way. Master told me from the beginning that if i put His needs before my children's He would lose respect for me. *shrugs* as a mother i just don't get how you can put anyone above your kids....again if this makes me not a true submissive...ah well, such is life....

 

[HottieMama]

hmmm..i don't think i could 'admire' any woman who puts their Man before their children. my children are my life, and most Dom's i know, wouldn't have it any other way. Master told me from the beginning that if i put His needs before my children's He would lose respect for me. *shrugs* as a mother i just don't get how you can put anyone above your kids....again if this makes me not a true submissive...ah well, such is life....

I completely agree, rose.

 

[lil_pooka]

I agree, but that's not what this is about. This isn't about which should come first, it's about if she could really devote herself to someone while having that commitment to the military. Thanks again for all the input

 

[callinectes]

in your case, perhaps both are your true Masters. but there are many who hold down a full-time job and have children as well, yet there is never any question that their Master comes first. and i certainly admire those women.

If one has neither children or a job that's very easy thing to say.

 

[callinectes]

I agree, but that's not what this is about. This isn't about which should come first, it's about if she could really devote herself to someone while having that commitment to the military. Thanks again for all the input

I believe one can have a commitment to both with the understanding the realities of life will sometimes overrule. Obviously the Dominant in this relationship has to have an understanding of that and make accomodations accordingly.

 

[ownedsubgal]

If one has neither children or a job that's very easy thing to say.

i understand you intended that as some sort of personal slam, however i do not take it as such. i have neither children nor a job at the moment, because that is the way my Master wants it. i have no idea whether or not one day he'll wish to bear children with me, but as for a job, i have worked outside the home during the course of our relationship, and it wasn't difficult to make sure that he always came first. when we first met i was a college student, eager to get my anthro degree and travel the world and do research...he said that school was too great a distraction for a new slave, and that i needed to put it on hold. so i quit school. it was a painful thing to do but also a very simple thing. once he became Master, his needs, wants, etc. come first, PERIOD.

rose...many believe that their children should always come first, and i used to think the same (which is why i never wanted children...i felt i could never be a good mother because i know my Master would always come first). however an older slave sat down and had a talk with me and explained it this way. her Master comes first, serving and pleasing him is her top priority in life. and yes she is a mother of still developing children. however because he is a loving Master, her children come first for HIM. so while she is seeing to her Master's needs, he is seeing to the children's needs..no one is shorted. that is the way many "old school" relationships were run. and well it makes sense to me. so yes i certainly admire a woman who understands that her Master (not her "man", not her vanilla partner or even Dominant, but her Master) comes first, even above children, even above a longtime career. if a slave's Master is not her top priority, then it makes me wonder why she feels the need to bother with the relationship at all.

 

[HottieMama]

she is seeing to her Master's needs, he is seeing to the children's needs..no one is shorted.

i would argue that she herself is shorted out of the experience of fully being the child's mother...and the children are shorted their mother's attention. Both pretty shitty, IMO.

i am thrilled that this has never been an issue with my PYL. He likes the fact that no matter what, i put my children first. Seriously, i don't think any woman should have a child if she's "unable to" or "unwillingly to" take care of it...and put the child's needs above all else.

 

[callinectes]

i understand you intended that as some sort of personal slam, however i do not take it as such. i have neither children nor a job at the moment, because that is the way my Master wants it. i have no idea whether or not one day he'll wish to bear children with me, but as for a job, i have worked outside the home during the course of our relationship, and it wasn't difficult to make sure that he always came first. when we first met i was a college student, eager to get my anthro degree and travel the world and do research...he said that school was too great a distraction for a new slave, and that i needed to put it on hold. so i quit school. it was a painful thing to do but also a very simple thing. once he became Master, his needs, wants, etc. come first, PERIOD.

rose...many believe that their children should always come first, and i used to think the same (which is why i never wanted children...i felt i could never be a good mother because i know my Master would always come first). however an older slave sat down and had a talk with me and explained it this way. her Master comes first, serving and pleasing him is her top priority in life. and yes she is a mother of still developing children. however because he is a loving Master, her children come first for HIM. so while she is seeing to her Master's needs, he is seeing to the children's needs..no one is shorted. that is the way many "old school" relationships were run. and well it makes sense to me. so yes i certainly admire a woman who understands that her Master (not her "man", not her vanilla partner or even Dominant, but her Master) comes first, even above children, even above a longtime career. if a slave's Master is not her top priority, then it makes me wonder why she feels the need to bother with the relationship at all.

This reminds me of the working mom vs the stay-at-home mom arguments I used to see on pregnancy and parenting boards.

Truly, I did not intend it as a personal slam, it was meant to express frustration. My point was that many of us do not have the luxury you do. I became aware of "the lifestyle" after I married, had a child, and divorced. So now my first obligation is to my child. Because I have to provide for her I have to have a job with a good salary and benefits..thereby making the job my second priority. Until my daughter is on her own that is the way it has to be. I cannot put a man first...it would be unfair to her and I can't expect a man that is not her father to provide the same level of care a biological father would. But, none of that means my Dominant's needs are not met, he simply has a different set of needs than what your Master has. So maybe by your definition I have three masters, maybe I have none. I don't really know.

ETA: I do not identify as a slave..it's simply not possible for me at this point of my life. When my situation is different I may or may not. That's one I can't predict.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I agree, but that's not what this is about. This isn't about which should come first, it's about if she could really devote herself to someone while having that commitment to the military. Thanks again for all the input

my question is: why couldn't she? i mean what does it have to do with the D/s dynamic?? if she were 'nilla, would it not be the same thing?? i understand it would put somewhat of a strain maybe, but i think it would no matter if you're in a D/s or a 'nilla relationship.

 

[catalina_francisco]

This reminds me of the working mom vs the stay-at-home mom arguments I used to see on pregnancy and parenting boards.

Truly, I did not intend it as a personal slam, it was meant to express frustration. My point was that many of us do not have the luxury you do. I became aware of "the lifestyle" after I married, had a child, and divorced. So now my first obligation is to my child. Because I have to provide for her I have to have a job with a good salary and benefits..thereby making the job my second priority. Until my daughter is on her own that is the way it has to be. I cannot put a man first...it would be unfair to her and I can't expect a man that is not her father to provide the same level of care a biological father would. But, none of that means my Dominant's needs are not met, he simply has a different set of needs than what your Master has. So maybe by your definition I have three masters, maybe I have none. I don't really know.

ETA: I do not identify as a slave..it's simply not possible for me at this point of my life. When my situation is different I may or may not. That's one I can't predict.

I can very much see where osg is coming from, probably because in these things we tend to think a lot alike. We all make choices, including on what terms we submit, or what terms we can afford to submit to at a particular time. For me that choice was always going to be that when I did submit, I wanted it to be a TPE situation where my Master would be the first person to whom I answered, and as such he had precedence over everything else. For me, if I worked, it would mean he would have to take second place to the demands of my job unless I could afford the luxury of working for myself in my own time. It is natural if you work that you have to put aside the immediate needs of your PYL at times in the interests of fulfilling your employment responsibilities otherwise you will not hold the job for long. In that way it is like serving more than one Master, and also having to give preference to the needs of the one which is most needed for whatever reason you may choose. If I went to work tomorrow, I would expect I would have to be at work at certain times, would not be free to call in sick everytime he wanted me here serving him, and basically it would mean his needs would come after those of my employer....that is not what I envisioned when I set out to live this lifestyle, and that to me is not serving him on an equal basis to my employer.


Similarly if you have small children it is wise to choose a PYL who is going to place as much importance on their needs as the submissive does. While my son is an adult, he has major problems which mean he needs me for quite a time yet, and fortunately, not only does F recognise the importance of that need, but he is also the one responsible for offering us an opportunity for my son to eventually lead an independent and healthy life and supporting us to find the solutions needed. Despite not having children of his own, he has gone above and beyond what I or anyone would ever have expected to care for my son, and especially has done more for him then his biological father who hasn't bothered to have contact or see him for most of his life. Regardless of the stress and time consuming demands of my son's situation, F still comes first and does not get put aside until I have time for him. It is a matter of F being a part of the solution instead of standing by and demanding instant miracles of me....he actually takes as much of the responsibility as I do, and plays an important role in my son's life, and through it all, if and when F needs and/or wants me, F comes first irrespective of what I am doing.

It makes sense for us in that without F my son would not have the life he now has, or a chance at a future. If I had small children I imagine F would still take precedence, but that would not mean I loved my children less or cared badly for them. I think the mistake a lot of people make when children become part of their life is they believe the relationship shoud be put aside for the sake of the children's needs....what usually happens is the children develop a sense of belief they are the center of the universe and should be entitled to whatever they want when they want, and the parents slowly lose the relationship they had, and then what often follows is divorce and children without 2 loving parents in one home. It is so much easier and healthier if they realise their parents (or parent) is healthier and happier if they are able to have an adult loving relationship which co-exists with the relationship between parent and child, and everyone's needs are met, not just those of the child because that child first formula usually results in the childs needs not being met either.

Catalina

 

[lil_slave_rose]

rose...many believe that their children should always come first, and i used to think the same (which is why i never wanted children...i felt i could never be a good mother because i know my Master would always come first). however an older slave sat down and had a talk with me and explained it this way. her Master comes first, serving and pleasing him is her top priority in life. and yes she is a mother of still developing children. however because he is a loving Master, her children come first for HIM. so while she is seeing to her Master's needs, he is seeing to the children's needs..no one is shorted. that is the way many "old school" relationships were run. and well it makes sense to me. so yes i certainly admire a woman who understands that her Master (not her "man", not her vanilla partner or even Dominant, but her Master) comes first, even above children, even above a longtime career. if a slave's Master is not her top priority, then it makes me wonder why she feels the need to bother with the relationship at all.

my kids are just that, MY kids. they are not my Master's kids and they are not part of the our D/s dynamic therefore, He will not be the one to 'raise' them. will He help me? yes He will, but i am their Mother and no Man (be Him Dom, Master, 'nilla partner or whatever) will come before my kids, period. you say no one misses out, yes, the children still miss out, on their mothers devotion to them and they grow up seeing that a Man's needs are more important to their mother than their own. why bother with the relationship?? so you're saying that if a MOTHER puts her kids needs first before her Master's she shouldn't be in a D/s or M/s relationship at all? i can attend to my children's needs and my Master's with no problem, and thankfully Master feels the same way as me, that my children should come first, He too has no respect for a mother who will put her Dominant/Master before her children, and MANY other Dominant/Master's i know feel the same.

as an example, when Master was here and we fixed dinner (yes we, He cooked on the grill, i did the inside cooking) when it was all done, i served my kids first, and then i fixed Master's plate and then mine. *shrugs* that's just the way it is and the way it will be. when i decided to have kids i knew i would be responsible for them no matter what until they were old enough to take care of themselves, and since they are not yet old enough, i still have a responsibility and obligation to them and yep, they will come first in my life again i'm glad my Master's agrees with me that they SHOULD come first. maybe when/if you have children you will understand more. that's not a personal slam, that's just simply a fact. there is no way you can know what it's like to have kids that need you, if you have none.kids should never be a part of the lifestyle and they should always feel like their mother or father for that matter, puts their needs above all else.

edited to add: i'm not talking needs as in the kid wants to go to the mall and Master wants me to stay home and clean the house and so i overturn what Master wants and take the kids to the mall instead. i am talking about their needs not their wants. if Master and i are in the middle of something and one of my kids hollers for me, i will not wait until He's finished to go tend to my child. we will stop the scene or whatever the heck is going on, and i will go to my child and see what's wrong. this is not an issue though, because Master agrees with me whole heartedly, so it works for us. i don't think that because i put my kids's needs first that my kids will grow up thinking they are 'center of the universe' they will grow up knowing that i loved them very much and did whatever it took to make sure their needs were met. as for working outside the home and still serving Master, well in this day and age, it takes two people in the home working to make ends meet, and while it's a nice thought to just sit home and take care of Master while He brings in all of the money (hopefully one day that will be possible after He finishes His novel *grins*) it's just not that feasible for us, as He doesn't have a job making 100 thousand dollars a year, so i will have to work as well again if this makes me less submissive or less of a slave in someone else's eyes, well then life will go on and i know that i have Master's support and that's all that matters.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

i would argue that she herself is shorted out of the experience of fully being the child's mother...and the children are shorted their mother's attention. Both pretty shitty, IMO.

i am thrilled that this has never been an issue with my PYL. He likes the fact that no matter what, i put my children first. Seriously, i don't think any woman should have a child if she's "unable to" or "unwillingly to" take care of it...and put the child's needs above all else.

exactly, i agree completely. and i also don't think it makes a submissive less submissive if she puts her kids first, or a slave less of a slave for that matter because i just don't see the children as part of the lifestyle *shrugs* we have gotten way off topic *grins* ah well, it happens on every thread i've ever seen started here on lit