Training Techniques for Mental Conditioning

[switchbitch]

This reads eerily like you believe that people can be coded and rewritten like a java file.

Anyone know where I can find an orgasm-on-command plugin? I think S would be very much interested in installing one on me.

In all seriousness, the fact that we all seem to have differing ideas on what "honorable", "stupid" and "thoughtless" are is exactly the reason why this stuff should be taken very seriously.

indeed mental conditioning can 'code'behaviour parents start that process when we are children. And while orgasm on demand isn't necessarily easy to achieve it most definitely can be done.
I do believe that it should be taken seriously very seriously but I also believe that when you have done all that you can to be safe if you still wish to indulge in mental control play perhaps the risk is worth the amazing results.

 

[switchbitch]

You're lucky, switchbitch, in that your Master and you agree on what is right and reasonable and honorable.

Personally? I would never trust my levels of understanding with any partner to that point. Not as a sub, not as a dom.

Nor the veracity of my crystal ball.

Personally I think I'm the luckiest girl in the world to have found such a master.
My desire and need for many kinds of what most consider edge play,have made the finding even more astonishing. Without such a master I would not be able to indulge in these practices with any form of safety. So yes I really do think I'm the luckiest girl in the world.

 

[the captians wench]

I have experienced one of the mistakes you mention.

Jounar loves orgasm control. It's something I have enjoyed very much myself. The idea that every orgasm I experience is a gift from him is touching on so many levels.

As he shares me, I have always been free to orgasm freely with any man he deemed worthy of me. I had to save passes for ones that I enjoyed playing with, but he did not care for, and never permitted to bring myself to orgasm with out his permission.

It's been 6 years, and we've shared the joy and romance of him owning my orgasm for the length of it. But you see, there has been a development that neither of us was expecting.

After 6 years of only being allowed orgasm with permission, I now find that even when I have his permission to bring myself to completion, I have trouble doing so. It may take me days, even a week or more of bringing myself to the edge only to have the feeling die suddenly and my body to loose interest in finishing. I can feel the need, the want, feel how close I am, and then it's gone.

He has to say it right before I start, and some times that doesn't work. If he's watching, or listening, or has me video it, I have no problems. If a playmate does the same, or even text of my trigger word, then I'll achieve my goal. Being with some one I have no trouble reaching orgasm. But alone...it can be heart wrenching.

I know there will be a lot of time and effort in correcting this, and I do not hold this in the same catagory as the other examples I have given as it was something neither of us imagined could happen. Still, one never knows for certain how the mind will react to stimulus.

 

[KoPilot]

indeed mental conditioning can 'code'behaviour parents start that process when we are children. And while orgasm on demand isn't necessarily easy to achieve it most definitely can be done.
I do believe that it should be taken seriously very seriously but I also believe that when you have done all that you can to be safe if you still wish to indulge in mental control play perhaps the risk is worth the amazing results.

Emphasis on the "rewritten" part. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea of "Hmm, that didn't work. Let's try something else." and having it "rewrite" over the "bad code" and provide an instant fix doesn't sound right to me for a situation like this. What I was trying to say with the java comment is that human beings aren't that simple and to pretend we are screams of wishful thinking. And don't get me wrong, mental conditioning and orgasm control and all that sounds really hot... but really only in fantasy. Like midwestyankee said, what if my relationship doesn't last? And while my D may not have deliberately "coded" me to react a certain way in a certain situation, even after he's gone, there's no way that he could predict or troubleshoot or bugfix or patch for every, or any, conceivable hiccup in the potentially bad code. People are complex, psychology is complex. I have been affected and unaffected by things in ways I could have never predicted beforehand. If I can't even do it, there's no way that I could trust someone else to know that better. If you can, great, and good for you. As for me, well... I've never been one to willingly put myself in a position where I could get seriously fucked over. I take my thrills with a heaping dose of caution and forethought.

 

[midwestyankee]

Ah but when I think of a dominant being honourable I consider it part and parcel that sensible precautionsbe taken. I would not consider the senarios you have painted to be in any way the behaviour of an honourable person. Of course mistakes can be made by anyone but an honourable person corrects them quickly. The idea of controlling someone's sexuality to the exclusion of all other means to me seems somewhat ludicrous and demeaning to the nature of submission. I mean when I give my submission I choose to give my sexual response and part of my joy is living up to his expectations or even merely the effort to do so. But that is still not very clear perhaps if I give an example. Let us say for instance my master wants me to experience orgasm every time I throat his cock, he would never induce the idea that that would be the only way I could experience orgasm merely that it is something special with him.then perhaps others don't feel this way and I understand that good intentions are never enoughwithout sensible precaution. And even a wonderful master like he who claims me, can make mistakes but if something does occur like that he addresses the problem immediately.honour demands that reasonable risks being taken not stupid or thoughtless ones.From reading the last few posts it occurs to me that our definitions of honour are very different.

Did you not read CutieMouse's post about her troubles following just such a well-intentioned bit of training? People do not have to be arseholes, as you put it, to create situations from the very best and most honorable of intentions, that result in problems in the unforeseeable future.

I'm very happy for you that your Dominant can see into the future and has already provided for your happiness there.

 

[switchbitch]

Did you not read CutieMouse's post about her troubles following just such a well-intentioned bit of training? People do not have to be arseholes, as you put it, to create situations from the very best and most honorable of intentions, that result in problems in the unforeseeable future.

I'm very happy for you that your Dominant can see into the future and has already provided for your happiness there.

yes I did read it and it is not something that I would consider safe under any circumstances nor reasonable. I suppose the miscommunication problems are in that you seem to be assuming that I would consider any such possibly damaging play appropriate at all.

 

[midwestyankee]

yes I did read it and it is not something that I would consider safe under any circumstances nor reasonable. I suppose the miscommunication problems are in that you seem to be assuming that I would consider any such possibly damaging play appropriate at all.

Then please explain in terms simple enough for this doting old fool to follow what you understand to be "mental training for submissives" since that is the subject at hand.

 

[Stella_Omega]

yes I did read it and it is not something that I would consider safe under any circumstances nor reasonable. I suppose the miscommunication problems are in that you seem to be assuming that I would consider any such possibly damaging play appropriate at all.

I'm sure it seemed completely reasonable to both of them at the time;

... Yes, at the time it was "hot" to be "trained" to be dead silent when climaxing (because he wished it), but it took *years* to undo.

As a side note, I've trained several women to be vocal during orgasm-- not to mention I had to train my own self out of silent orgasms. I want to hear it, dammit.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

To anticipate all danger, one might simply stay at home, sequestered, and avoid the risk of pleasure and pain.

 

[neci]

the thread has been an interesting read so far, and i'm not even quite sure where my thoughts will end up once i begin typing.

first off, i believe in personal responsibility when it comes to my sexuality. that being said, i have not always taken the best care of myself. when i take something like training to heart, i have a true desire to please the other person, and i have lost focus of myself in doing so. does this mean i would go back and change things? no. does this mean i wouldn't do things, like learning how to come on command again? no. does this mean i need to be in a better place than where i am at now before i engage in anything like this again? yes.

when i dive, i dive deep. i want to explore and see what is out there. i go places lots of people wouldn't wander. giving up one's mind in order to be conditioned can be very dangerous and very consuming. there are times it occupies your every thought. i lost track of time. at times i dove deeper into depression. it was extremely hard for me to verbalize, because i am not a very verbal person to begin with. i did not want to displease. i minimized my reactions to what was happening. i had amazing orgasms. then i fell even harder. the masochist in me loved it. it was like a drug. i had to have my fix.

in the end, i had something close to a complete breakdown. i didn't speak to anyone for several days, including my own children. i lost my voice and my mind. i was very fortunate enough to have people who loved me very close, and they cared for me, when i couldn't do it myself. i scared them. i don't want to do that to them ever again. hindsight is 20/20, right?

if i ever go there again, lots of things have to change. crawling out of a hole you willingly dug is a bitch. it is tiring and exhausting. that's just where i am at now. i am tired. on the other hand, i don't regret what i put myself through. i learned more than i expected to, and i made some amazing art. there is something eerily romantic about trying to wipe your slate clean to become a fresh canvas. you just have to remember that not everyone paints like picasso, and when they do, you're likely to be in a whole lot more trouble. also, not every piece is a master piece. some are utter shit.

i continue to ramble. i have started to take on the task of trying to mentally conditioning myself. it is much harder than having someone do it for you, let me tell you. when someone else is there, it is so much easier to pass the buck. when you do it yourself... it's a fuck lot harder, but it feels so much better.

i will take the good with me and learn from the rest. slowly putting the pieces together. i am also grateful for diving deep into the world of oral servitude. that was one mental conditioning i hope i never lose. even if i almost lost myself in the process.

i am here alive. heart beating one more day, and it has been a good day. not easy, but i will sleep tonight. today i have a better idea of who i am and what i want. for that, i am grateful.

 

[switchbitch]

To anticipate all danger, one might simply stay at home, sequestered, and avoid the risk of pleasure and pain.

but then you could die by vitamin D deficiency

 

[KoPilot]

but then you could die by vitamin D deficiency

Not if you take your vitamins~

 

[neci]

i ran across a random quote. i thought it would fit here.

"What screws us up most in life is the picture in our head of how it is supposed to be..."

 

[darlynd]

So … random sidebar question…

If one is afraid of the after effects of mental domination, then how would one go about separating a physical dominating scene from a mental one. This may be a stupid question, because I cannot separate the two.

I would never want to forego the possibility of enjoying my kink because I was afraid of it. In fact, if I feared it so much it would probably no longer be a kink.

Am I making sense here?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I have no problem separating them.

Also, we've been talking here is not behavior training-- nothing like, say, teaching someone what you expect from them in the course of their job-- but alterations of primal responses. Brainwashing.

I would never want to forego the possibility of enjoying my kink because I was afraid of it. In fact, if I feared it so much it would probably no longer be a kink.

I have kinks that I will not indulge in because they are more dangerous than I am willing to risk. Doesn't mean I don't want to. Just means my common sense won out over my gonads.

 

[neci]

I have kinks that I will not indulge in because they are more dangerous than I am willing to risk. Doesn't mean I don't want to. Just means my common sense won out over my gonads.

that's the same reason i have to stay away from breath play.

 

[Stella_Omega]

that's the same reason i have to stay away from breath play.

That's one of them for me too...

 

[darlynd]

Also, we've been talking here not behavior training-- nothing like, say, teaching someone what you expect from them in the course of their job-- but alterations of primal responses. Brainwashing.

Before 2 yrs ago, my breasts were not sensitive to nipple stimulation. Yes, flog them and I was a limp doll in minutes, but that was it. When I told my bf (of a dominant personality) this, he started working his magic and now he can bring me to multiple orgasm by pulling, twisting, etc just my nipples.

This is behavior training in its most simple form for me. It does not have to be considered brainwashing. And since I allowed him to play wth my nipples, it was totally my choice as to if I wanted to learn how to be stimulated in that manner.

I am not sure why as a submissive we feel we must give up that choice. It is called a limit! Use it wisely.

 

[IrisAlthea]

the thread has been an interesting read so far, and i'm not even quite sure where my thoughts will end up once i begin typing.

first off, i believe in personal responsibility when it comes to my sexuality. that being said, i have not always taken the best care of myself. when i take something like training to heart, i have a true desire to please the other person, and i have lost focus of myself in doing so. does this mean i would go back and change things? no. does this mean i wouldn't do things, like learning how to come on command again? no. does this mean i need to be in a better place than where i am at now before i engage in anything like this again? yes.

when i dive, i dive deep. i want to explore and see what is out there. i go places lots of people wouldn't wander. giving up one's mind in order to be conditioned can be very dangerous and very consuming. there are times it occupies your every thought. i lost track of time. at times i dove deeper into depression. it was extremely hard for me to verbalize, because i am not a very verbal person to begin with. i did not want to displease. i minimized my reactions to what was happening. i had amazing orgasms. then i fell even harder. the masochist in me loved it. it was like a drug. i had to have my fix.

in the end, i had something close to a complete breakdown. i didn't speak to anyone for several days, including my own children. i lost my voice and my mind. i was very fortunate enough to have people who loved me very close, and they cared for me, when i couldn't do it myself. i scared them. i don't want to do that to them ever again. hindsight is 20/20, right?

if i ever go there again, lots of things have to change. crawling out of a hole you willingly dug is a bitch. it is tiring and exhausting. that's just where i am at now. i am tired. on the other hand, i don't regret what i put myself through. i learned more than i expected to, and i made some amazing art. there is something eerily romantic about trying to wipe your slate clean to become a fresh canvas. you just have to remember that not everyone paints like picasso, and when they do, you're likely to be in a whole lot more trouble. also, not every piece is a master piece. some are utter shit.

i continue to ramble. i have started to take on the task of trying to mentally conditioning myself. it is much harder than having someone do it for you, let me tell you. when someone else is there, it is so much easier to pass the buck. when you do it yourself... it's a fuck lot harder, but it feels so much better.

i will take the good with me and learn from the rest. slowly putting the pieces together. i am also grateful for diving deep into the world of oral servitude. that was one mental conditioning i hope i never lose. even if i almost lost myself in the process.

i am here alive. heart beating one more day, and it has been a good day. not easy, but i will sleep tonight. today i have a better idea of who i am and what i want. for that, i am grateful.

Great post!

The bolded parts describe pretty well how I feel about a lot of things in life.
I'm responsible for myself and my children and it's not just about knowing the other persons good intentions or wants. It's even more about me knowing that I am doing it for the right reasons, that I'm in the right place to do it and that I am willing and able to live with the consequences.

 

[darlynd]

It's even more about me knowing that I am doing it for the right reasons, that I'm in the right place to do it and that I am willing and able to live with the consequences.

That is the best way to protect ourselves!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Before 2 yrs ago, my breasts were not sensitive to nipple stimulation. Yes, flog them and I was a limp doll in minutes, but that was it. When I told my bf (of a dominant personality) this, he started working his magic and now he can bring me to multiple orgasm by pulling, twisting, etc just my nipples.

This is behavior training in its most simple form for me. It does not have to be considered brainwashing. And since I allowed him to play wth my nipples, it was totally my choice as to if I wanted to learn how to be stimulated in that manner.

I am not sure why as a submissive we feel we must give up that choice. It is called a limit! Use it wisely.

That sounds a little bit different than what you started out talking about.

A whole lot different, actually.

____--------_____-------______

EDIT: I just now realised that I left out a very important word in my post, I meant to say "What we have been talking about here is NOT behavior training..."

I've edited my post and I apologise for leading us off the track.

 

[darlynd]

That sounds a little bit different than what you started out talking about.

A whole lot different, actually.

____--------_____-------______

EDIT: I just now realised that I left out a very important word in my post, I meant to say "What we have been talking about here is NOT behavior training..."

I've edited my post and I apologise for leading us off the track.

The thread did go off track. The original question was designed to be posed to Dominants to inquire on ways to help bring out the more submissive side in a woman.

For submissivess I was looking for those experiences that helped them develop in their submissive journey.

The fact that it the thread changed to a discussion of the mental abuses that can occur is far from where I was originally headed, but apparently is was a topic that needed to be discussed.

Moving to a gentler side of the training aspect (how I was trained to enjoy nipple stimulation) is a sidelong attempt to bring the original topic back around.

 

[midwestyankee]

The thread did go off track. The original question was designed to be posed to Dominants to inquire on ways to help bring out the more submissive side in a woman.

For submissivess I was looking for those experiences that helped them develop in their submissive journey.

The fact that it the thread changed to a discussion of the mental abuses that can occur is far from where I was originally headed, but apparently is was a topic that needed to be discussed.

Moving to a gentler side of the training aspect (how I was trained to enjoy nipple stimulation) is a sidelong attempt to bring the original topic back around.

Don't you see that what you've described here is not much different from the more abusive attempts at "training" that others have described? What one person sees as a desired response- in your case, increased pleasure from breast stimulation - might not be seen the same way by all. And what others see as a desired response - coming to orgasm under certain, prescribed conditions - might not be seen as desirable.

But in both cases, a submissive person is trusting a dominant person to alter their psycho-physical responses in ways that might cause problems in the unforeseeable future. Who gets to decide which training is "good" and which is not?

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

but then you could die by vitamin D deficiency

It was meant to be metaphorical, dammit!

 

[Stella_Omega]

The thread did go off track. The original question was designed to be posed to Dominants to inquire on ways to help bring out the more submissive side in a woman.

For submissivess I was looking for those experiences that helped them develop in their submissive journey.

The fact that it the thread changed to a discussion of the mental abuses that can occur is far from where I was originally headed, but apparently is was a topic that needed to be discussed.

Moving to a gentler side of the training aspect (how I was trained to enjoy nipple stimulation) is a sidelong attempt to bring the original topic back around.

Ah, no.

The nipple stimulation is physical training. Neurological, perhaps. It doesn't interfere with your functioning in any way, it's an addition to your functionality. Like.. learning to pitch a baseball.

Learning to ignore your own needs while putting your PYL's needs first-- that's the kind of training that can become abusive, wittingly or accidentally.