Torah and Old Testament

[ll74]

I used to date a Jewish woman who gave outstanding Oral Torah.

Did the product come with a rubber Torah?

 

[ll74]

Pentateuch is something goth girls wear around their neck, according to Ill.

Who?

 

[butters]

It's simple....Christians believe the bible is the word of their god, when in reality the scripture was written and curated by political forces. The history is interesting to see which forces won and which ones lost....

ok, back in the day when i was knee high to a grasshopper, i attended a roman catholic school; my teachers were mostly nuns. Prayers and church were a part of daily life at the school. We had 2 priests: one, old, Irish, all brimstone, fire and (i'd lay odds) liquor, the other young, Irish, and all about the kindness and love of Jesus. The former ranted and railed from the pulpit in English, while the service was in latin (that gave way to common english during my time at this school). You didn't argue with his position or question him but were expected to take his word as THE word. The younger guy who worked alongside and eventually replaced him was a whole other kettle of fish, delving into the metaphorical nature of scripture over any literal interpretation.

So, with the newer thinking, and the services being held in english, there wasn't so much a direct conflict of beliefs but space made to justify why some of the stories were what they were. There was also room to question things but a lot of my questions only came about after leaving that school for a secular one when i turned 11... when all you've been brought up with is the way of a cult, that's the lens through which i perceived my world (for the most part). It was human behaviour, flying in the face of some of the teachings of love/respect/honour/truthfulness/kindness, that invoked a sense of pre-teen disgust at hypocrisy. And the worst offenders were always those who were loudest in defending old testament standards.

The greater zealotry and that whole literal "god's word" thing is a far bigger factor over here in the US; it's kind of like falling back half a century in how religion operates from my perspective.

 

[Btq97]

The evolution of religion.
From the worship of primal forces of nature. To the deification of the sky zombie. The beardy guy in the sky with a plan for us all.

 

[ll74]

ok, back in the day when i was knee high to a grasshopper, i attended a roman catholic school; my teachers were mostly nuns. Prayers and church were a part of daily life at the school. We had 2 priests: one, old, Irish, all brimstone, fire and (i'd lay odds) liquor, the other young, Irish, and all about the kindness and love of Jesus. The former ranted and railed from the pulpit in English, while the service was in latin (that gave way to common english during my time at this school). You didn't argue with his position or question him but were expected to take his word as THE word. The younger guy who worked alongside and eventually replaced him was a whole other kettle of fish, delving into the metaphorical nature of scripture over any literal interpretation.

So, with the newer thinking, and the services being held in english, there wasn't so much a direct conflict of beliefs but space made to justify why some of the stories were what they were. There was also room to question things but a lot of my questions only came about after leaving that school for a secular one when i turned 11... when all you've been brought up with is the way of a cult, that's the lens through which i perceived my world (for the most part). It was human behaviour, flying in the face of some of the teachings of love/respect/honour/truthfulness/kindness, that invoked a sense of pre-teen disgust at hypocrisy. And the worst offenders were always those who were loudest in defending old testament standards.

The greater zealotry and that whole literal "god's word" thing is a far bigger factor over here in the US; it's kind of like falling back half a century in how religion operates from my perspective.

I went through Catholic school. They hated me because I asked too many questions.

I was an altar boy as well...not the type that went through the bad shit, thankfully.

 

[ll74]

Butters got her name from Nuns.
Ill got his from a Priest.

Who's lll?

 

[ll74]

I'm assuming you're starting an attack thread based on your ultimatum

 

[ll74]

Did Ill dress provokatively for his Priest?

View attachment 2180402

Did you get a response from the person you're referencing yet?

Or are you just prepping for the attack thread?

 

[JohnEngelman]

Religion doesnt teach anything. Scriptures contain misogynistic and racist connotations....to be religious requires your interpretation of that scripture. Your belief is not required to adhere to any one interpretation.

The white nationalists I argue with on other websites dislike Christianity because of its universalism.

 

[Chobham]

A good translation of the old testament is one of two books everyone should have in their library (the other is the complete works of Shakespeare). Forget about religion for within you will find every triumph and failing of humans as individuals. Read the old testament as a historical work. A work written/told by peoples whose lack of scientific understanding caused them to see a divine hand in all that they couldn't explain. It contains the most brilliant acts of military strategy along with the lowest acts for purely prurient interests.

Generally speaking those that mock the old testament have never read it and are merely relying on what some other critic has had to say without any evidence that that critic bothered to read it either. And those critics that have bothered to read the work have focused on the divinity aspect while ignoring the true nature of the narrative.

 

[ll74]

The white nationalists I argue with on other websites dislike Christianity because of its universalism.

Why do I care? Oh that's right...I don't.

 

[JohnEngelman]

Why do I care? Oh that's right...I don't.

Then why did you respond?

 

[iso36]

Then why did you respond?

He’s lonely.

What we know...none of it is based on the "word of God"...

The only people who claim to “know” that are athiests.

 

[JohnEBbad]

Is that like when the Japanese went all Old Testament on Pearl?

Tora! Tora! Tora!

 

[JohnEBbad]

A good translation of the old testament is one of two books everyone should have in their library (the other is the complete works of Shakespeare). Forget about religion for within you will find every triumph and failing of humans as individuals. Read the old testament as a historical work. A work written/told by peoples whose lack of scientific understanding caused them to see a divine hand in all that they couldn't explain. It contains the most brilliant acts of military strategy along with the lowest acts for purely prurient interests.

Generally speaking those that mock the old testament have never read it and are merely relying on what some other critic has had to say without any evidence that that critic bothered to read it either. And those critics that have bothered to read the work have focused on the divinity aspect while ignoring the true nature of the narrative.

Well said and to that second paragraph I would add an aggravated sense of self importance; a false omniscience.

[Disclaimer: I am an Atheist. I'm just not one of those Atheists who give us a bad name by acting all religious and righteous about it.]

 

[Dribble]

A good translation of the old testament is one of two books everyone should have in their library (the other is the complete works of Shakespeare). Forget about religion for within you will find every triumph and failing of humans as individuals. Read the old testament as a historical work. A work written/told by peoples whose lack of scientific understanding caused them to see a divine hand in all that they couldn't explain. It contains the most brilliant acts of military strategy along with the lowest acts for purely prurient interests.

Generally speaking those that mock the old testament have never read it and are merely relying on what some other critic has had to say without any evidence that that critic bothered to read it either. And those critics that have bothered to read the work have focused on the divinity aspect while ignoring the true nature of the narrative.

Define "good translation". I have read the Old Testament several times. I have not found anything close to the brilliance you claim. I do find a loose amalgamation of oral stories attempting to be more than they are. But it interests me because they was a motive behind them. And it is that motive that gets lost in the hatred. I would love to have those books in the closed off restricted section of the Vatican open to the public so we can see once and for all how certain groups actively hide anything that they don't approve of. Do we see this behavior today? How "parents" want to pretend CRT for example, is heresy and ban anything that even questions their belief? Or books with gays? History is a great thing.

 

[JohnEBbad]

:Fremdschämen:

 

[ll74]

Then why did you respond?

You quoted me...I responded. It's a thing i do.

 

[Sugar Baby Wanted]

Define "good translation". I have read the Old Testament several times. I have not found anything close to the brilliance you claim. I do find a loose amalgamation of oral stories attempting to be more than they are. But it interests me because they was a motive behind them. And it is that motive that gets lost in the hatred. I would love to have those books in the closed off restricted section of the Vatican open to the public so we can see once and for all how certain groups actively hide anything that they don't approve of. Do we see this behavior today? How "parents" want to pretend CRT for example, is heresy and ban anything that even questions their belief? Or books with gays? History is a great thing.

The brilliance to me consists of the bloodline and what has sprung forth from it. Moses wrote the first 4 books, as you know, with direction from God. Sometimes, as in 6 days of creation, the information is debatable. But for the most part, it is absolutely brilliant. It has been said that the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. The writer Paul, who wrote most of the other books, is also brilliant and the 2nd most important person next to Jesus. Bringing up CRT or something is not relevant as your relationship is directly with God and your pursuit of His truth by you. I mean, you had Sodom and Gomora and even angels that wanted to mate with David. That's in the Bible.

The book of Enoch could have been included, but they couldn't verify who wrote it. So, there are some questions about which books were included and which books were not, but I believe they are from God's direction.

 

[phrodeau]

Genesis 2 contradicts Genesis 1. Genesis 3 has a ludicrous talking serpent. Whoever wrote that was obviously not interested in being believed.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

The brilliance to me consists of the bloodline and what has sprung forth from it. Moses wrote the first 4 books, as you know, with direction from God. Sometimes, as in 6 days of creation, the information is debatable. But for the most part, it is absolutely brilliant. It has been said that the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. The writer Paul, who wrote most of the other books, is also brilliant and the 2nd most important person next to Jesus. Bringing up CRT or something is not relevant as your relationship is directly with God and your pursuit of His truth by you. I mean, you had Sodom and Gomora and even angels that wanted to mate with David. That's in the Bible.

The book of Enoch could have been included, but they couldn't verify who wrote it. So, there are some questions about which books were included and which books were not, but I believe they are from God's direction.

What is “the New Testament”? Is that the new Torah fan-fic that's gotten so popular?

I’ve never read it but I understand it has a lot of Greek polytheism mixed in, which really isn’t canon. And the Jesus character is kind of a Mary Sue. He’s just too OP to be believable.

 

[iso36]

I went for the Exodus as soon as Phil Collins joined Genesis.

 

[Sugar Baby Wanted]

What is “the New Testament”? Is that the new Torah fan-fic that's gotten so popular?

I’ve never read it but I understand it has a lot of Greek polytheism mixed in, which really isn’t canon. And the Jesus character is kind of a Mary Sue. He’s just too OP to be believable.

You've never read it but yet you comment on it via here say. Believe what you choose to believe. Most Jews don't believe in Jesus either.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Most Jews don't believe in Jesus either.

By definition, Jews don't believe in Jesus. If you believe in Jesus you're a Christian.

Most Christians don't understand the Torah. They only know it through Paul's derivative fan-fic. That goes for a lot of atheists as well. Western culture is so thoroughly marinated in Christianity that many American and European atheists only know Judaism through the funhouse mirror of Christianity.

It's perfectly possible to be a Jew and an atheist, however. Belief & Faith are Christian concepts, not Jewish ones. Judaism is a cultural identity and a way of living. Halahkah is sometimes translated as "the way of walking". The Torah is not a claim about the factual nature of reality. It's a set of folk tales, and rules for living day-to-day.

 

[Biggs_Darklighter]

Somewhere in Judges they should have had the Book of Dredd.