Torah and Old Testament

[oggbashan]

I think you hit the nail on the head! This is also why women are denigrated so much in the holy books. Also why sec is portrayed as such a taboo.

I blame the misogynist St Paul.

 

[Deadbed1968]

I blame the misogynist St Paul.

John was no prize either! I think he was more of a misogynist than Paul. His gospel certainly was.

 

[oggbashan]

John was no prize either! I think he was more of a misogynist than Paul. His gospel certainly was.

They were both products of their time and culture. Most of Christianity has moved on. Much of Islam hasn't.

 

[jaF0]

II7A's last name is Kuryakin.

My Uncle told me.

 

[ll74]

II7A's last name is Kuryakin.

My Uncle told me.

Is that a variant? This multiverse stuff is pretty hard to follow

 

[jaF0]

47 is not too young to remember ....

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-kNfKQWQ1yvM%2FVYq9P6-RrPI%2FAAAAAAAAB2g%2FQ2H2S_XqO3k%2Fs1600%2Fvulcn027.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=5026971e0145c991433532d71e561db0888b5323ce57889bfde85504f696e799&ipo=images

 

[Deadbed1968]

They were both products of their time and culture. Most of Christianity has moved on. Much of Islam hasn't.

I don’t think Christianity has advanced that far. Many denominations still do not allow female priests/ministers. The Vatican, the Orthodox Church and the Protestant denominations still teach from the same book that has been around for thousands of years.

 

[oggbashan]

I don’t think Christianity has advanced that far. Many denominations still do not allow female priests/ministers. The Vatican, the Orthodox Church and the Protestant denominations still teach from the same book that has been around for thousands of years.

But most Christian denominations are selective in what they read at services, not emphasizing the misogynist parts.

In the early church, women were priests and had much more influence than they had up to the late 20th Century.

 

[JohnEngelman]

I knew the Torah was the first 5 Books of the Old Testament. But I didn't know the history behind them. This ties some of the loose pieces together, and opens the door to some other options.

I find it funny, how our Fascist racists hate the Jewish religion...yet Christianity is built from the same 5 books. What we know...none of it is based on the "word of God"...but on what was an oral history of what was held as the word of God. Today...we see the lies in Trumpism.

Richard Elliott Friedman agrees with more of the Documentary Thesis than Matt Baker. He argues that linguistic analysis indicates that the Hebrew of the J source and 2 Samuel is older than the Hebrew of the E, P, and D source. Promises God made to Abraham in J are kept in 2 Samuel. For example, God promised Abraham that his descendants would rule from the Euphrates River to the Sinai Peninsula. King David conquered that land.

Professor Friedman argues that P was written during the reign of Hezekiah, and that D was written during the later reign of Josiah. P and D insist that animal sacrifices can only be given at the Temple of Jerusalem. That is what Kings Hezekiah and Josiah decreed.

I have read the Torah in nine English translations, one of them by Professor Friedman. Deuteronomy appears to have been added, almost as an after thought, to Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers, and does seem to have been written later.

Professor Friedman argues that J and E were first combined, and that J, E, P, and D were combined in pretty much the form we have in the Torah shortly after the end of the Babylonian Captivity, probably by Ezra, who he identifies as the Redactor.

Thus Professor Friedman places the composition of the Torah before Matt Baker. Professor Friedman also leaves open the possibility that the twelve tribes of Israel were originally united by David, and even by King Saul.

 

[Deadbed1968]

But most Christian denominations are selective in what they read at services, not emphasizing the misogynist parts.

In the early church, women were priests and had much more influence than they had up to the late 20th Century.

Yes, then we took a giant leap backwards!

Protestant denominations are more likely to focus on Old Testament (esp Leviticus) that are heavily biased. Some of the more liberal churches (United Church of Christ, Congregational, Anglican/Episcopal) are much more tolerant.

 

[Deadbed1968]

47 is not too young to remember ....

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-kNfKQWQ1yvM%2FVYq9P6-RrPI%2FAAAAAAAAB2g%2FQ2H2S_XqO3k%2Fs1600%2Fvulcn027.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=5026971e0145c991433532d71e561db0888b5323ce57889bfde85504f696e799&ipo=images

Y’all know that’s Ducky, from NCIS!

 

[lovecraft68]

The left
We stand against racism!
The left-we hate Jews!!!!!
The left-We hate Nazisssssssssssssssss
Rational people. "The Nazi's hated the Jews"
Left-we hate Jewsssssss
Rational people. "Doesn't that make you a Nazi?"
The left....you're a Naziiiiiiiii! And we hate Jews

 

[lovecraft68]

I blame the misogynist St Paul.

All Christianity and all of Islam teach Misogyny. Their texts written for men by men.
I'd give a slight nod to Christianity for coming out of the dark ages and allowing women to read and speak and be people.
Islam still treats them like absolute garbage and you leftists kowtow to them because they're "brown."

 

[ll74]

The left
We stand against racism!
The left-we hate Jews!!!!!
The left-We hate Nazisssssssssssssssss
Rational people. "The Nazi's hated the Jews"
Left-we hate Jewsssssss
Rational people. "Doesn't that make you a Nazi?"
The left....you're a Naziiiiiiiii! And we hate Jews

"The left" doesn't hate Jews. Neither does "the right". Racist assholes hate people based on their race. Period. Ideology is not specific to one party or another. The continued bullshit about the right or the left being racist is wrong because it attempts to frame their political opposing party in a bad light.

People are racist. Parties are not.

 

[Deadbed1968]

All Christianity and all of Islam teach Misogyny. Their texts written for men by men.
I'd give a slight nod to Christianity for coming out of the dark ages and allowing women to read and speak and be people.
Islam still treats them like absolute garbage and you leftists kowtow to them because they're "brown."

No, everyone kowtows to them because oil

 

[Deadbed1968]

"The left" doesn't hate Jews. Neither does "the right". Racist assholes hate people based on their race. Period. Ideology is not specific to one party or another. The continued bullshit about the right or the left being racist is wrong because it attempts to frame their political opposing party in a bad light.

People are racist. Parties are not.

Hear hear, well said!!

 

[ll74]

All Christianity and all of Islam teach Misogyny. Their texts written for men by men.
I'd give a slight nod to Christianity for coming out of the dark ages and allowing women to read and speak and be people.
Islam still treats them like absolute garbage and you leftists kowtow to them because they're "brown."

Religion doesnt teach anything. Scriptures contain misogynistic and racist connotations....to be religious requires your interpretation of that scripture. Your belief is not required to adhere to any one interpretation.

 

[Deadbed1968]

Religion doesnt teach anything. Scriptures contain misogynistic and racist connotations....to be religious requires your interpretation of that scripture. Your belief is not required to adhere to any one interpretation.

I don’t agree here. It is the interpretation presented by the ministers/priests that the congregation for the most part, parrots. Religion does not invite lay people to reinterpret scripture

 

[ll74]

I don’t agree here. It is the interpretation presented by the ministers/priests that the congregation for the most part, parrots. Religion does not invite lay people to reinterpret scripture

Certainly those who enter the religion are guided by those who introduce them to it. But in the end,. spirituality is a personal thing. If your personal perspective is to take on the interpretation of your church, that's entirely your choice.

Being accepted by your peers is not a requirement for belief.

 

[iso36]

Armchair Theologians
are funny.

 

[Deadbed1968]

Certainly those who enter the religion are guided by those who introduce them to it. But in the end,. spirituality is a personal thing. If your personal perspective is to take on the interpretation of your church, that's entirely your choice.

Being accepted by your peers is not a requirement for belief.

That assumes that people think for themselves. I think way too many people take whatever is fed to them at face value.

 

[ll74]

That assumes that people think for themselves. I think way too many people take whatever is fed to them at face value.

Yes, it assumes that I want people to think for themselves. If people don't, then certainly it doesn't actually matter in my comment
It's not anyone else's job to ensure they do

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

As I mentioned in this thread, I have a high opinion of Jews and their religion. Nevertheless, there are parts of the Torah that should not be taken literally.

Taking scripture literally is a Christian thing, not a Jewish thing. It’s one of the things Christians get wrong when they look into the Torah.

Keeping the mitzvot is generally seen as a good thing, but you’re expected to break the rules when health or safety is at stake. For example you’re not supposed to fast if you’re sick.

If the only thing standing between you and starvation is a cheeseburger, eat the cheeseburger!

It’s a very sensible religion.

 

[ll74]

Taking scripture literally is a Christian thing, not a Jewish thing. It’s one of the things Christians get wrong when they look into the Torah.

Keeping the mitzvot is generally seen as a good thing, but you’re expected to break the rules when health or safety is at stake. For example you’re not supposed to fast if you’re sick.

If the only thing standing between you and starvation is a cheeseburger, eat the cheeseburger!

It’s a very sensible religion.

Literal interpretation is also a thing for religions that many Christians hate

 

[iso36]

I used to date a Jewish woman who gave outstanding Oral Torah.