Top-opolis

[rosco rathbone]

I give thanks to etoile for turning me on the the fucked up world of delia day.

delia day!!!! she's the best.

 

[Pure]

ok, tell about her (delia), or give a url or something?

which prominent Republican is most deserving of a sex change (like it or not)?

Which prominent Republican male would, after the operation, make the best female?

which prominent neo-con would most benefit from Netzach's services?

State why.

 

[rosco rathbone]

etoile started a big thread about her

it's a huge site but the best part is a series of pictures of her....licking sperm off floor, covered with clothespins, just after swallowing a strange mans seed, etc....

see if this link works

http://207.44.237.195/

 

[rosco rathbone]

This is th best part of the site. Each picture in the gallery has a groovy little essay with it.

http://207.44.237.195/pictures_from_slavery.html

 

[Phoenix Stone]

My mind is drawing a blank on the name right now but I'm sure one or all of you will know who I'm talking about. Famous M2F Jan somebody who climbed Everest as a young man.

Anyway, I remember reading some essay by Jan the Former Man about how he knew a comfort and strength in his birth body that women never know etc etc. All I could think was that he couldn't possibly know whether he would have felt a greater, lesser or equivalent confidence as a female since he wasn't one at the time in question.

Basically I thought he was condescending and ignorant and it made me disinclined to read anything else by him/her since it seemed such a major flaw in thinking.

Regardless of what gender one feels one is most affiliated with, there is no way to undo a life lived as one sex simply by changing the physical and asserting that one has always been psychologically transgendered.

This is not to say that I feel people should not be able to change their gender or mask their gender or explore their sexual identity in any way they choose (nod to consentuality blah blah blah).

In my experience, however, TS --- in either direction --- are NOT the same as people who retain their birth gender. This is not a better or worse thing simply a different thing.

So what am I trying to say?

I suppose nothing more profound than that I am irritated by transexuals who insist that they are exactly the same as those born into their chosen genders. Clearly they are different. Clearly they cannot know what it is like to be born into the gender they choose.

This doesn't invalidate them as individuals and I'm happy to refer to people however they wish to be refered to with some notable exceptions (I will never call my little brother lord and master and king of the universe and I have a hard time thinking of Jan Whosis as a woman).

I find this insistance on the part of many transexuals similar to the mainstreaming of GLBT issues and BDsM issues. Rather than fighting for acceptance of things just the way they are there's this horrible push to sanitize things that ultimately only points out how not mainstream all of these lifestyles are.

My question is why does it matter? The point is not to cover over everything to make it look "normal" but to uncover everything everywhere so that people see that "normal" is only a narrowly defined area that vast numbers of people don't fit into. In which case "normal" isn't particularly valuable because we're all normal.

Except for that guy over there fucking the dead cat. He's clearly nuts.


-B

Ok, as long as we're bringing stuff back....

Reading back a bit -- bb I luv ya luv ya luv ya. Between you and Sunfox I feel so vicariously understood. Man, gal-pals, kindred spirits, etc. So hard to find, yet... ah, what a relief. I'll shut up about that now.

But about the topic. I have met a post-op mtf tran now-lesbian, or two, as one of my sisters is a lesbian, so I know a lot of her friends, and when she was young, she dated 'Terri.' My sister was young enough that the 6 foot height, Big, square-boned frame, etc didn't clue her in for a while. Despite the op, Terri struck me as a very typical mainstream guy, with long hair and short skirts, who happened to have a lesbian-fetish and was willing to go quite far to satisfy it.

Nothing to do with 'new-man sensitivity' or demasculinization of society, or fear of being a homosexual or anything else. In fact, wouldn't it make more sense that the mtf trannies who Don't become lesbians, could be argued as gay men who are homophobic, and willing to go to great lengths to avoid being gay? (Who me, gay? No, I'm really a Woman. Gay? No, no, anything but That!)

Just a thought. Probably a rude one. Certainly one that betrays a lack of understanding. Seems to me the mtf's I hear about are mostly very traditional type guys (lots of former military) who try to be ultrabutch, then, after the operation, switch to ultrafemme. Seems more like folks with really rigid sex role stereotypes, rather than 'women trapped in men's bodies.' Makes me wonder why they couldn't just move to SF, cross-dress, and save themselves a lot of trouble. Hope they mostly at least try this first. I think I need to see a study of a large population of transexuals, rather than just anecdotal evidence.

Barring such statistical knowledge, and given my theory above, I'd argue that mtf lesbians could also be the purest form of 'yes, I really feel like a woman in a man's body.' Because 1. it wouldn't have anything to do with homosexual fear or confusion, and 2. they could do the same things with woman pre and post op, 3. they would already have access to straight women pre-op.
So, to me, at this point, mtf lesbians, and ftm homosexuals are the easiest for me to understand as folks who just really feel they were the opposite gender. (Or who are just Really into the opposite sex. )

 

[Netzach]

Condoleeza Rice could use the sex change most, poor thing.

That cancels the next question, kinda.

And since the cons don't mind excecuting the retarded, I don't mind beating the mentally ill.....

and I'd MOST like to beat (drumroll)


ashcroft ... everyone's favorite paranoid religio-delusional prick.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I dunno; I'm mainly into the types of MTF that I encounter when paying for sex with trannies/pre-ops...super-feminine, pretty, "girly" people with big fake tits and hormones and plastic surgery. Most of them are from other cultures.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

I dunno; I'm mainly into the types of MTF that I encounter when paying for sex with trannies/pre-ops...super-feminine, pretty, "girly" people with big fake tits and hormones and plastic surgery. Most of them are from other cultures.

Was this to me? Not sure this does anything but Support my point, as they are likely to have come from cultures that are even more rigid in their sex-stereotyping than ours. Places where it is much Less acceptable to be gay than here. Yes, there are plenty of such places and they include most of the third world. Which is where those super-femme trannies come from, no?

 

[rosco rathbone]

Was this to me? Not sure this does anything but Support my point, as they are likely to have come from cultures that are even more rigid in their sex-stereotyping than ours. Places where it is much Less acceptable to be gay than here. Yes, there are plenty of such places and they include most of the third world. Which is where those super-femme trannies come from, no?

This wasn't to anyone. Just making the point that there are a lot of super-feminine TV/TS'es. I know what you mean about the butch lesbo types---ick----but they aren't the sole representatives. There are a lot of others who'd fool you.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Reading back over my posts in this thread has got me believing that I am the [modesty=0] funniest and most acute writer on human sexuality at this entire site which is supposedly dedicated to literate eroticism. [/modesty]

Read laugh and enjoy.

 

[Pure]

While the impresario is a person of estimable virtù, a better index of merit is the quality of others' postings that have been welcomed or evoked.

 

[Pure]

Netzach, please describe the implements, paraphernalia, and 'set'(setting) of your beating of 'everyone's favorite paranoid religio-delusional prick.'

I think I'd prefer, as a kind of 'table'* the 2-ton edifice of the 10C that was recently trucked out of the Alabama courthouse. With some O rings installed.

*"Thou preparest a table for me in the presence of mine enemies."

 

[Netzach]

I have to say I'd have picked the EXACT same furniture.

I'd say my weapon of choice would be a phallic pantyhose leg stuffed with fresh elephant dung, a text from the Song of Songs etched thereon.

 

[rosco rathbone]

While the impresario is a person of estimable virtù, a better index of merit is the quality of others' postings that have been welcomed or evoked.

me thinks not.

"the lonely star shines the most bright"

 

[rosco rathbone]

Netzach, please describe the implements, paraphernalia, and 'set'(setting) of your beating of 'everyone's favorite paranoid religio-delusional prick.'

I think I'd prefer, as a kind of 'table'* the 2-ton edifice of the 10C that was recently trucked out of the Alabama courthouse. With some O rings installed.

*"Thou preparest a table for me in the presence of mine enemies."

I haven't been keeping up. Is there trouble in paradise between my two favorite brainchildren? Play nicely, you two, or wait till your father gets home.

*spreads preserves on a scone*

 

[bridgeburner]

Phoenix,

I just recently saw Boys Don't Cry for the first time so this topic has been on my mind a lot more lately. I "bought" Hillary Swank as a boy. Also as a transgendered boy. Strangely, or maybe not, her portrayal was more natural than what I've seen from most transgenered people I've known with few exceptions.

Until I saw this film I hadn't thought much of Swank's acting skill -- she was passable, just. I don't know that it was an Oscar-worthy performance, but it was damn good. I never once thought of her as a woman pretending to be a man except during the sex scenes when I was thinking about Swank and Sevigny as actresses performing a sex scene.

But Swank has an advantage over transgendered people in that she has an objective ideal that she studied and was coached on how to portray. She wasn't acting from how she "felt" as a woman or a man trapped in a woman's body etc. She didn't have to live that role every day 24/7 for the rest of her life.

Where the hell am I going with this?

Oh, yeah, I remember....sorta.

I think my main point is that I get irritated with people who push too hard to appear to be what they wish and I have encountered it often in M2F transexuals. ---I've never personally known any F2M so I can't speak for that.

I don't begrudge anyone the common ground they can find with me or with others. I'm quite fond of common ground, but I find myself uncomfortable when people start going off on some topic in an effort to prove themselves particularly when they can't possibly grok what it is they're talking about.

Like this Jan person. She wasn't a woman as a teenager. She has no idea whether it was scary or painful or wonderful to hit menarchy. She has no idea how different her life might have been at any time before she became a woman so I resent the idea that now she is a woman she professes to be the authority on what it is to be female.

-B



btw, PS, SWAK!

 

[bridgeburner]

Sitting down with popcorn to watch the show.


clap clap clap!

munch munch

wonder if I should get my yellow poncho in case of a wardrobe malfunction with the dung stuffed panty-hoe

-B

 

[Netzach]

I'm fantasizing about taking out aggressions on the esteemed Mr. Ashcroft that's all. Can't kids play anymore?

BB, having known assorted M2F's and F2M's I blame a lot of what you dislike about Jan...whatver her name is, has to do with her transitioning earlier on. The way the medical establishment treats transgendered people is different, they used to encourage people to even come up with fictitious "girl childhoods" as though they never were anything other than the destination gender.

I treat people as the gender they present, but I think you'd find few T's in their early 30-s 20-s acting as if they are anything other than someone who's made a change and that their gender identity involved realization and process, and that it's not the same as the experience of someone who was born with the gender they want.

That assertion, that there's no growth involved, just seems to make the whole thing kind of bland, to me, anyway.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I thought hilary swank as a boy was pistol hot and I can see why they violated her.

 

[bridgeburner]

Netzach,

I have a feeling you might be right since the youngest TS I've ever known was already in her 40's when I met her.

Jan Morris!!! That's who it was! This has been driving me nuts for weeks.

And of course it was a only a single article by her that I read that so pissed me off.

-B

 

[bridgeburner]

BTW, yes, Rosco, I often read your Jack Off Log for a good chuckle. You are rightly proud of your accomplishments.


-B

 

[rosco rathbone]

BTW, yes, Rosco, I often read your Jack Off Log for a good chuckle. You are rightly proud of your accomplishments.


-B

Yes, I know.

 

[Marquis]

I thought hilary swank as a boy was pistol hot and I can see why they violated her.

I felt like such an asshole having this thought as my then girlfriend lay sobbing beside me.

 

[bridgeburner]

Actually, I had put off seeing the movie for quite some time because I was worried about how I'd react to the rape scene. It didn't squick me or make me cry. Hell, I can only think of one rape scene in a film that actually made me cry, but I've frequently been creeped out by them. A lot of them are hot as shit, but a lot of them aren't. It just depends.

The scene in BDC didn't strike me in the way I expected because I honestly wasn't thinking of Swank as a female. Even the way she said "vagina" later when she was being interrogated by the police made me think of her as a boy.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I felt like such an asshole having this thought as my then girlfriend lay sobbing beside me.

This reminds me of my own days as a salad dominant. I had a penchant for the types of freaky girls who'd do their best to please a man...then later on fly into a rage at the excesses of patriarchy.

For some reason, I always was, and still am, attracted to those types. Perhaps I have that most generic of kinks: a lesbo fetish.

Yeah. Righteous, stinky, overalled, burr-headed, patchoouli, theory-reading lesbians. I ought to have my sense organ cluster examined.

I loved Hilary Swank in that movie, she was the perfect "trying to be butch but utterly girly" type of girl.

I love the idea of marquis, young gun in the middle of the high-end education system; where it's still 1989 for all practical purposes. A gnome at large, sowing seeds, injecting venom.


Keep em' down, young man. You know the drill. We've got to keep em' down.