Too weird?

[Kenourio]

Hi lovely Literoticans.

I wrote a couple of stories for the site a couple of years ago which got that nice red H and some nice comments, so obviously people liked them.

Now I've put up something else, and it doesn't seem to be grabbing people at all - 2.5 average score thus far, plus a commenter who evidently wasn't a fan.

I knew the piece was a bit of a stretch content-wise, but thought the writing was decent enough, so I'm surprised to be coming in that low.

Would love opinions from any of the knowledgeable types who frequent this forum. In particular, I'm wondering if the problem is
a) the mix of genres (horror tropes plus BDSM plus romance)
b) the plot mechanism (is it not obvious enough by the climax what's going on?)
c) the femdom and humiliation aspect (is my heroine too sweet and a bit passive, should this have been nastier?)
d) just the writing in general, or indeed something else?

The story's over here - "Ghost in the Machine."

Not looking for salve for my bruised ego, but interested in real feedback if anyone has the time.

 

[Winter_Fare]

I read through and found the shifting perspective interesting, but difficult to follow.

BDSM category seems to have extremely low tolerance for the non con tag. IMO the readers take it waaaay too seriously. Your story doesn't read like romance to me, it feels more about breaking down a bully, about how power corrupts, and at heart it's a story of mind control by magic and coercion. That explains the inevitable sprinkling of 1* and 2* votes. I'm surprised you haven't had a few snarky comments.

The D/s aspects seem quite shallow to me. Words like "slave" and "goddess" should carry more weight, the psychology of using them, and the protagonists reactions to them would add depth to your narrative IMO. As it stands, the PVC and formal behaviour just come out of nowhere, there's no lead up to why the pair of them fall into those rolls so comfortably in spite of it being forced. You have some room, both in Jenny's masturbation scene and Tom's mirror scene for some foreshadowing.

I do think Jenny reads like too much of a drip in the first half to stand up as a convincing Goddess. Just a bit more aggression and less moping is needed.

For what it's worth I gave you 4* as despite the rough edges, mind control/D/s/non-con always does it for me

 

[TheRedChamber]

Winter_Fare seems to just beaten me to the punch here, and made a lot of the same points I was going to make.

I read through and found the shifting perspective interesting, but difficult to follow.

I didn't find it particularly difficult to follow, though I initially assumed that the coma victim was either Jenny or Tom. If there's not going to be a follow up story, I could have done with a little bit more background for whoever that was. If there is going to be more, no problem.

BDSM category seems to have extremely low tolerance for the non con tag. IMO the readers take it waaaay too seriously. Your story doesn't read like romance to me, it feels more about breaking down a bully, about how power corrupts, and at heart it's a story of mind control by magic and coercion. That explains the inevitable sprinkling of 1* and 2* votes. I'm surprised you haven't had a few snarky comments.

This I think is the main point. By itself the story is too well written to be deserving of a 2. That tends to happen when you've upset someone with content. That said, you've only got about 700 views so far, so I can't believe you've gotten that many votes and a few more might drag it up a bit. It definitely feels more like an Erotic Horror story. One thing I've learnt from my recent stories, is how well the BDSM guys react to 'nice' stories. Both of my recent stories there have been nice people having mutual fun together with a touch of humour and they score higher than anything I publish elsewhere. Your story, at least initially, is a little nastier at its core - which is fine, just not maybe what's expected on that board.

The D/s aspects seem quite shallow to me. Words like "slave" and "goddess" should carry more weight, the psychology of using them, and the protagonists reactions to them would add depth to your narrative IMO. As it stands, the PVC and formal behaviour just come out of nowhere, there's no lead up to why the pair of them fall into those rolls so comfortably in spite of it being forced. You have some room, both in Jenny's masturbation scene and Tom's mirror scene for some foreshadowing.

Again, I agree with this.

I do think Jenny reads like too much of a drip in the first half to stand up as a convincing Goddess. Just a bit more aggression and less moping is needed.

I think it's okay for her to be a bit of a drip to begin with. The desire to dominate could have been forshadowed more.

For what it's worth I gave you 4* as despite the rough edges, mind control/D/s/non-con always does it for me

I gave it a five, because I tend to think of 4 as competently written but average and this was a bit more memorable and unique than that (and I didn't think the edges were that rough).

 

[yowser]

First of all, there is nothing wrong with the writing, which is not only excellent, but far better than 99% of Lit's offerings. I have a couple quibbles, which I will include below (along with a Spoiler Alert! so anyone reading this might want to consider. I urge anyone who likes good writing to read this one.)

My responses are speculative, I don't really know why scoring isn't as good as it should be.

My experience with scoring is that it has an asymmetrical and tenuous correlation with quality. If the writing is terrible, the score will be low, but even superb writing doesn't mean a good score - scoring seems more than anything else to be a popularity index. For a few possible reasons, your tale may not have reached a suitable popularity level. Again, speculating, scoring seems not as generous generally in the last year or two than earlier in Lit's history (my own efforts used to do 'better' and I would like to think that my later efforts are 'better' than earlier ones, but scoring argues against that.)

I don't know the BDSM genre well, but I have heard, and found some evidence for, that readership is apt to be 'fussy' in the way scenarios are portrayed. It is possible you put a few people off, but I am just guessing.

This is a hugely ambitious tale, with lots of moving parts and complexity, and you may have strained the site's readership base. You cannot enjoy this story without some patience.

The quibbles:

There are a few places where I think you are overwriting/being a little too precious. (I plead guilty on this one too, and am perhaps too sensitive to this fault). A couple examples of sentences which would have worked better if done in just a slightly less 'writerly' manner:

as the final vestiges of the morning's fantasy dissipated.

ecstatically drinking in her essence

Like a sculptor with a block of marble

Two slightly larger issues:

the female character, while mostly portrayed well, at a few times feels like it was written by a male. (Your profile says 'male' and I am taking this a face value. If I am wrong here, my apologies.)

Spoiler alert:

while the paralytic's character is deliberately kept ambiguous (and done very well) it takes awhile for the identity to formulate. This may try enough readers' patience and comprehension to detract from a proper read (and score.)

So, just some musings. It is a striking story, full kudos for attempting a tale of such complexity and ambition. And pray! continue.

 

[Kenourio]

I read through and found the shifting perspective interesting, but difficult to follow.

BDSM category seems to have extremely low tolerance for the non con tag. IMO the readers take it waaaay too seriously. Your story doesn't read like romance to me, it feels more about breaking down a bully, about how power corrupts, and at heart it's a story of mind control by magic and coercion. That explains the inevitable sprinkling of 1* and 2* votes. I'm surprised you haven't had a few snarky comments.

The D/s aspects seem quite shallow to me. Words like "slave" and "goddess" should carry more weight, the psychology of using them, and the protagonists reactions to them would add depth to your narrative IMO. As it stands, the PVC and formal behaviour just come out of nowhere, there's no lead up to why the pair of them fall into those rolls so comfortably in spite of it being forced. You have some room, both in Jenny's masturbation scene and Tom's mirror scene for some foreshadowing.

I do think Jenny reads like too much of a drip in the first half to stand up as a convincing Goddess. Just a bit more aggression and less moping is needed.

For what it's worth I gave you 4* as despite the rough edges, mind control/D/s/non-con always does it for me

Thank you, that's incredibly helpful. I was worried about the more formal BDSM elements, as that's not an area I've explored as often, and you're right about trying to think through the psychology more. The plotting trap I ran into (probably because the female character's interest in BDSM kind of came out during the writing of what I'd originally intended to be a mind control story) was that I wanted that power switch to come as a surprise, but, yes, there are subtler ways of foreshadowing that could have been used.

 

[Kenourio]

This I think is the main point. By itself the story is too well written to be deserving of a 2. That tends to happen when you've upset someone with content. That said, you've only got about 700 views so far, so I can't believe you've gotten that many votes and a few more might drag it up a bit. It definitely feels more like an Erotic Horror story. One thing I've learnt from my recent stories, is how well the BDSM guys react to 'nice' stories. Both of my recent stories there have been nice people having mutual fun together with a touch of humour and they score higher than anything I publish elsewhere. Your story, at least initially, is a little nastier at its core - which is fine, just not maybe what's expected on that board.

That's really interesting and speaks to my being inexperienced with BDSM stories. It makes sense that people in that scene, with its important emphasis on consent, would not want to read anything that misrepresented them. The idea here of course is that the dominant was actually under the impression that it's a consensual and loving scenario, but I get that it's triggering. I think I'll move it over to Erotic Horror following your suggestion.

 

[Kenourio]

A couple examples of sentences which would have worked better if done in just a slightly less 'writerly' manner:

as the final vestiges of the morning's fantasy dissipated.

ecstatically drinking in her essence

Like a sculptor with a block of marble

Two slightly larger issues:

the female character, while mostly portrayed well, at a few times feels like it was written by a male. (Your profile says 'male' and I am taking this a face value. If I am wrong here, my apologies.)

Spoiler alert:

while the paralytic's character is deliberately kept ambiguous (and done very well) it takes awhile for the identity to formulate. This may try enough readers' patience and comprehension to detract from a proper read (and score.)

So, just some musings. It is a striking story, full kudos for attempting a tale of such complexity and ambition. And pray! continue.

All good points, especially on the writing, but if you have any time and are able to elaborate on the comment about the female character I'd be very grateful. I'm indeed male so all tips on creating rounded and believable female characters are always extremely welcome. Thanks so much for everything you've said here.

 

[yowser]

All good points, especially on the writing, but if you have any time and are able to elaborate on the comment about the female character I'd be very grateful. I'm indeed male so all tips on creating rounded and believable female characters are always extremely welcome. Thanks so much for everything you've said here.

I append the paragraph I noticed below, everything else reads fine, and I'll try to explain the rationale for my reaction. The issue is subtle, probably the only reason I noticed is because: 1 I was reading as a 'critic' which is not the way most readers will approach a story, and so antennae are alert to finer gradations than a normal reader and 2 as a male author with several female protagonists in my stories, I run into the same issue, and am sensitive to it.
....

Jenny idly traced one finger around her left nipple, trying to recapture the high she'd had the previous week, when she'd looked at her reflection and persuaded herself that she was worthy of the guy she'd been crushing on all year. OK, so not everyone shared her dark sense of humor, and not everyone liked her lightly gothic fashion choices. OK, so she might not be the hottest girl in the world -- not everyone was blessed with the strength of character to avoid food, or to work out every day. OK, so she might be so short that Tom probably didn't even see her half the time when he walked in the room. But she wasn't a monster. Her long, dark hair, an inheritance from her Malaysian mother, drew admiring glances from other girls from time to time. When she'd put on new underwear last week and practiced her most seductive looks to her phone, she'd convinced herself no man could resist her.

....

If I had to pick one sentence it would be the 'not the hottest girl in the world' one as the trigger, but there are perhaps hints elsewhere in the paragraph too (I do not know if there are females who would do the nipple play business to 'recapture the high'. Certainly possible, just not familiar with that myself.)

You adroitly pick up appearance insecurity cues, which tend to be elusive to many males, this is good. (A sociology prof friend of mine asserts that she has never found a female who isn't at least a little anxious about some part of her body or the way she appears to the world.) Working with this is a sound approach, if not overdone.

The mirror reflection is a common, and easy, way to handle self-presentation, a shortcut to allow you to describe your character with precision and detail. I don't think you overuse this, but one needs to be careful.

One way to address the 'female self-analysis' is to focus on one detail (you mentioned height, for example.) Maybe give an example from the character's past when she was told, or given the impression, that that quality was unattractive, off-putting, etc.

One of the troubles with representing characters different from yourself, (a good challenge in general) is getting even one detail wrong or off. You won't get it right without something detailed (just generic human reactions aren't often good enough) but something wrong will trip up a reader. I mention this paragraph since it is early on in your introduction to the character, first impressions and all that.

I wouldn't overthink my reaction, rereading this and other parts of the work, you really handle things well. Only other suggestion, which maybe you do anyway, is to get a female friend or two to do a read-through to see if anything stands out.

You are already accomplished, I have no doubt you will get even better with time and effort.

 

[dmallord]

What a gold mine of laser-focused analysis this author has received! I've been craving someone's reviews like this in my humble writings. Some praises, but not this type of insightful study.

Sorry, to barge into this .... my background would have little to offer, but as a token of gratitude, I'll go read your work piece!

 

[Kenourio]

If I had to pick one sentence it would be the 'not the hottest girl in the world' one as the trigger, but there are perhaps hints elsewhere in the paragraph too (I do not know if there are females who would do the nipple play business to 'recapture the high'. Certainly possible, just not familiar with that myself.)

You adroitly pick up appearance insecurity cues, which tend to be elusive to many males, this is good. (A sociology prof friend of mine asserts that she has never found a female who isn't at least a little anxious about some part of her body or the way she appears to the world.) Working with this is a sound approach, if not overdone.

The mirror reflection is a common, and easy, way to handle self-presentation, a shortcut to allow you to describe your character with precision and detail. I don't think you overuse this, but one needs to be careful.

One way to address the 'female self-analysis' is to focus on one detail (you mentioned height, for example.) Maybe give an example from the character's past when she was told, or given the impression, that that quality was unattractive, off-putting, etc.

One of the troubles with representing characters different from yourself, (a good challenge in general) is getting even one detail wrong or off. You won't get it right without something detailed (just generic human reactions aren't often good enough) but something wrong will trip up a reader. I mention this paragraph since it is early on in your introduction to the character, first impressions and all that.

That is just absolutely fascinating, and a convincing read of the paragraph. Thank you, sincerely. I knew for the dynamics of this story I wanted a woman who neither thinks of herself as attractive nor actually is particularly attractive by societal standards, and then at the last minute got cold feet about how long it was taking for anything obviously sexual to happen so added in the nipple detail (though, um, it's not a bad technique even for males for bringing back erotic memories... if you like that sort of thing... ahem).

On the mirror technique - the first draft had four moments where a character was looking at him or herself in a mirror or screen, so, yes, I'm definitely keeping an eye out for that.

I wouldn't overthink my reaction, rereading this and other parts of the work, you really handle things well. Only other suggestion, which maybe you do anyway, is to get a female friend or two to do a read-through to see if anything stands out.

You are already accomplished, I have no doubt you will get even better with time and effort.

Thank you. Deeply appreciate this feedback. My wife did read this story, but she's not massively into erotica so I'll have to try to take advantage of the female volunteer editors on this site next time.

 

[Kenourio]

What a gold mine of laser-focused analysis this author has received! I've been craving someone's reviews like this in my humble writings. Some praises, but not this type of insightful study.

I know - now I owe it to someone else to try to match this level of feedback for their story!