Thoughts on abortion?

[BustyTheClown]

I don't know what it is with me and controversial threads (and yes, sometimes even British comedy can be considered controversial ), but I want to get another one going...

I'm in the middle of writing a paper for my Bioethics class on abortion. I'll tell you what my thoughts on it are after I get some responses, since I don't want this to start out as a debate immediately, but I want to know what some of the rest of you think about it.

And please, people, be kind to each other. I know it's a tough subject to remain even remotely calm about, but try to respect what everyone has to say.

 

[alexandraaah]

Everyone should have the right to control their own body no matter what.

 

[Rambling Rose]

This subject's been covered a good bit here on the board. A quick search pulled up three pages but this thread had the most responses. Good luck on your paper!

http://literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=63798&highlight=Abortion

 

[Andreina]

check here....

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63798&highlight=ProLife+or+ProChoice


Halo

 

[Rambling Rose]

LOL...beat you to it, you little speed demon!

 

[Andreina]

aaaaaaaaaaarrggghhhhhhhhhh........

DAMN! *snipping fingers*



Halo

 

[freakygirl]

I was going to post links also. But it's already been done. So I voted and I'll give my response also.

Abortion is not something *I* could do. It's not something I ever thought of when I found out I was pregnant. But I had a friend in high school that had one, I drove her to the appointment, I sat with her afterwards. We talked about her decision long before she actually had it. After experiencing what she did. I knew I could never get one.

I think they are wrong for me... it was wrong for her (she never did let herself get over it and later comitted suicide) but if another woman can handle it.. so be it. It's her decision.

 

[alexandraaah]

Freaky..

You would fall into the category "Pro child/Pro choice."

 

[JazzManJim]

I voted, but in the interest of not starting a second shitstorm, I'll refrain from much more than that.

 

[bored1]

Everyone should have the right to control their own body no matter what.

I agree with you ..Now, why does the state tell me I have to wear a seatbelt?.. or a motorcycle helmet..If its my body it should be my choice...If I choose to disobey the state I can be stopped and fined for exercising my right to choose....

 

[alexandraaah]

I agree with you ..Now, why does the state tell me I have to wear a seatbelt?.. or a motorcycle helmet..If its my body it should be my choice...If I choose to disobey the state I can be stopped and fined for exercising my right to choose....

In the case of driving there are thousands of other people who pose a threat to your safety.

Abortions aren't unsafe. If you choose to go under, that's a risk, but otherwise there is no data that shows abortions to be any less safe than other minor surgeries.

Additionally, the load of bullshit about "a woman is 30% less likely to conceive in the future with each abortion," is just that...bullshit.

Flame away.

 

[Calamity Jane]

I beleive that it's a choice a woman should be allowed to make without interference from politicians or the church.

I also believe it should be an informed, well thought out decision. I would advocate that all abortion clinics have counselors on staff to talk to the women before and after the procedure.

Abortion is not something I would choose for myself. I'm extremely proud of my little sister for choosing to have her child, rather than abort it. I also understand the circumstances that would lead someone to make such a difficult, heart wrenching and life altering decision. And if someone I loved made the decision to have an abortion, whether I thought it was a good idea or not, I'd be there holding their hand and helping them in any way I could.

I'm not sure where that puts me in the poll.

 

[freakygirl]

I beleive that it's a choice a woman should be allowed to make without interference from politicians or the church.

I also believe it should be an informed, well thought out decision. I would advocate that all abortion clinics have counselors on staff to talk to the women before and after the procedure.

Abortion is not something I would choose for myself. I'm extremely proud of my little sister for choosing to have her child, rather than abort it. I also understand the circumstances that would lead someone to make such a difficult, heart wrenching and life altering decision. And if someone I loved made the decision to have an abortion, whether I thought it was a good idea or not, I'd be there holding their hand and helping them in any way I could.

I'm not sure where that puts me in the poll.

In about the same place I am.. in the middle.

 

[tortoise]

pro-(EDUCATED)choice

I would be very happy if there were no more abortions, ever. So, in that sense, I am anti-abortion. But I don't know if there's anybody in the world who is truly PRO-abortion.

I would NEVER take away a woman's right to choose, nor would I judge a woman negatively for choosing to have an abortion. I would also very much like the choice to be an educated one, and one that weighed all of the options at hand. I agree with PCG about the need for non-judgmental counseling every step of the way.

 

[SexyChele]

When I was very young, and very naive, I had an abortion. I was scared, frightened, believed my parents would disown me, and the guy who helped get me in the condition abandoned ship when I needed him most.

I had one friend who encouraged me to have the baby, and I was well on my way towards that. Then I spoke to my boss, who convinced me (at the time) that it would be the worse thing I could do. Her reasoning? Telling me how I would feel walking around at work, havng people "know". She truly fed on my insecurity. I don't think she meant harm, but most of my decision was based on her thoughts, as I truly looked up to the woman.

I was 19 weeks along when I had the abortion, and though it's been more than 15 years ago, I still recall the day I conceived, the day I had the abortion, the time I would have given birth. I know in my mind the exact age my child would have been. 16 as of this past January.

Yes, a woman should have the right to do as they please. I would never deny that option to her. But the hell of post-abortion can be worse than anything imagined. I've had girls come to me, wanting me to help them get abortions. If they are set on it, I will offer them what I can - but every one hears my story first. Those who have always change their minds.

Now. Where does that put me?

 

[Guest]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Skibum
I am in favor of a woman exercising reproductive choice, but she should exercise it before conception.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




The reasons I would consider valid for an abortion:
1.) Rape-must be reported at the time of the rape.
2.) Incest
3.) Medical problems for the mother if the pregnancy continued.
4.) Accidental pregnancy when on bc - other than condoms - must
be confirmed by your doctor.

If you don't want a baby then you better be on some type of birth control, and don't give me that crap about not being allowed to use birth control because of religious reasons. If that's the case you can't have an abortion and you can't have sex. Something stronger than condoms should also be used...they've got shots and all kinds of implants and pills and stuff. Find something and use it. Your man should also be made to use a condom.

If you take every precaution NOT to have a child I can understand a person getting an abortion. I still don't agree with it...but I understand you didn't want it...and you shouldn't have to have a baby if you tried everything not to have one. The thing about condoms not being a good enough bc is because you can always say your partner wore one but it broke. That's just not good enough in my opinion.

I don't look on women who have had an abortion unfavorably unless they are using abortions as a form of bc. I have a cousin who got pregnant and was mad at her bf at the time she found out so she aborted. They made up and she was pregnant again within 2 months, and she had that one. Her reasons were wrong in my book and I can no longer respect someone like that. Just cause you are mad at somebody doesn't mean you should abort a baby just to get back at them.


Brat

 

[SweetBrat73]

That was me up there


Brat

 

[Calamity Jane]

Something stronger than condoms should also be used...they've got shots and all kinds of implants and pills and stuff. Find something and use it. Your man should also be made to use a condom.

Something you may want to think about Brat... some women can't use birth control for health reasons. I can't. It makes me extremely ill from the first pill. I've tried the shot too... and gained 40+ pounds in less than 30 days, screwed up my thyroid, and had blood clots in my legs. None of those are good things. I do use condoms, though they cause their own problems since I'm allergic to the spermicide.

While you're passing judgement on people and regulating medical procedures, bear in mind that not all of us fit into nice little boxes.

 

[JazzManJim]

OH hell. Get the flame-guns ready, folks.

I'm one of those folks who believes that life begins at conception - that once there's a fetus it's a developmental human being and it has the same right to live and protection from being killed as everyone else does. So I'm opposed to abortion except in cases where someone else is going to die. Then it's a choice between one life and another and only one of them could possibly survive.

 

[SweetBrat73]

Something you may want to think about Brat... some women can't use birth control for health reasons. I can't. It makes me extremely ill from the first pill. I've tried the shot too... and gained 40+ pounds in less than 30 days, screwed up my thyroid, and had blood clots in my legs. None of those are good things. I do use condoms, though they cause their own problems since I'm allergic to the spermicide.

While you're passing judgement on people and regulating medical procedures, bear in mind that not all of us fit into nice little boxes.

If it makes you feel any better I can't use bc either. I've been on the pills and they bout killed me. Nor-plant is the most fucked up thing on the market in my opinion...I had so much trouble with that you wouldn't believe it. I still don't believe in abortion though. There are still other things that can be used. IUD, cervical cap, diaphragm, spermicides(I can't use these either...burn the hell outta me), etc. There is always adoption too. There are so many ppl out there that want babies and can't have them. If you can abort...why can't you give it up to a couple that will love it and give it what you can't???


Brat

 

[BustyTheClown]

Wow, I'm surprised at the number of people who voted/posted that women should always have the right to an abortion no matter what. I wasn't expecting that. I'm one of those, in case you were wondering at all.

One of you -- can't remember who -- said that there was probably no one out there who was pro-abortion... I might count myself in that category, as well. I view the fetus quite differently from Jim, in that I don't think it is a person at all until after it is born. I don't know how people can toss the word "viable" around and claim that a fetus is viable after 26/28/30 weeks (can't remember which one it is right now... I think it's 26). Apparently, their definition of viable is "able to survive outside the mother's womb" -- but the baby could not survive in the purely natural, biological sense outside the womb until it was a few years old and could move around on its own, feed itself and the like. If a woman was to have a baby after carrying it out full-term, I still would not consider the infant viable at all, as it could not survive without nurturing and attention -- moreso than probably any other mammal out there (don't quote me on that).

Let me explain the pro-abortion thing, as that may be confusing. I am not a heartless bastard, especially since I don't see abortion as killing anything. No person equals no killing. The fetus, until it's umbilical cord is cut from the mother's body, is part of her body and she can do with it what she likes, in my opinion. No matter what her circumstances -- rape, accidental pregnancy, late-term, early term, purposeful pregnancy, change of mind, you name it -- she should be the only one deciding what to do with her body. Granted, I'm all for informed decisions. Although I wouldn't fight women running around having abortions for shallow reasons like not wanting to cancel a trip to Europe for the summer, I think it would be an unfortunate and rather selfish choice.

My problem with the whole fetus as a person thing is that we can't prove it. Plain and simple. Abortion has to do with religion, science, ethics... all sorts of stuff that conflicts. I doubt we'll ever be able to reach a consensus on whether or not the fetus is a viable person with moral claims in society, because there just aren't ways to measure morality or humanity. I say stick with what we know -- the facts are that about half of the abortions performed are done within the first 8 weeks, and about 90% of them are done by the 12th week. Those are damn good numbers considering that most people don't have a problem with first-trimester abortions. There probably aren't a whole lot of women who would have abortions for irrational reasons even if they could, mostly because having an abortion is an intense experience that a woman would probably not want to go through unless she thought it really was best for her and/or the fetus/baby. Just read some of the horror stories on this thread. (My heart goes out to you, ladies.)

Ultimately, not one of us can put ourselves into a single woman's shoes and say, "No, I've surveyed your situation and considered all of the evidence, and it just does not support your decision to have an abortion." Being pregnant is something that every woman will feel differently about -- I've never been pregnant, but I got damn scared recently and went through what were probably the early stages of fear and uncertainty about what to do. And let me tell you, my situation was mild compared to some of the others out there, but I would *not* have wanted someone telling me what I was going to do with my body. It might be easier to regulate abortions if the experience wasn't so incredibly personal each time. But it is personal in ways that no one but the woman can fully understand, and I can't imagine what it would be like to be unable to have an abortion even though every fiber in my body screamed in protest.

Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to put this out there. Please feel free to pick apart or agree or tear up as you see fit.

 

[Weird Harold]

Regulation (legislation) of abortions falls into the class of "NUNYA" as in "nunya damn bidness." It is not something that government has any business legislating.

BTW, this does not say that abortion is either good or bad -- only that legislating it is an intrusion into a private decision between the patient and her doctor where government has no business prying.

 

[bored1]

When I was 19 my gf became pregnant.Now this was 1973....She could have aborted...but didnt..she had the baby and the baby was adopted out......I did however pay for ALL medical care and other associated costs.........Back then being pregnant out of wedlock was not accepted..... in the way it is today.....I had no rights.......no say in any decisions concerning my biological daughter.........I wanted to keep her and raise her with my parents assistance........I didnt have a choice and to this day I still wonder where she is and how she is.Does she wonder about her biological parents and why they gave her away..

 

[SexyChele]

Busty (or should I be using "clown"? oh, sometimes these nicks confuse me! )

I hear what you are saying about the whole "viable" thing. And I do know that in California, a woman cannot get an elective abortion after 20 weeks - there was strong doubt in my case with the clinic.

But, regardless of the "can it live outside the womb" facts, the first time you press your hand against a hardening abdomen, realizing that another life is growing within you, those "facts" go right out the window. I can remember when I had just past 16 weeks, and was putting some items on a grocery story conveyor belt. I leaned against it, and instant felt the hard presence of something in my womb. It was an intense feeling - very intense. I used to lay awake at night, rubbing the slight swell, crying. For me, it was a life.

And the very first thing I did when I woke up from the anethesia after the abortion, was to press my abdomen. It was soft and giving - and I knew that presence of life was no longer there. I started to cry then, as well.

I was an ardent supporter of a woman's right to choose at one time. I even stood outside of abortion clinics and fought with those who would take away a woman's right to choose. I refused their arguments about the idea that a zygote could be a life.

Then I got pregnant, and my feelings changed drastically.

If I had it to do over again, and I was able to know then what I know now, I would never have done what I did. Even knowing the hardships I might have faced, I would have that child.

My decision, and usually that of most women who get an abortion, was not made with a rational mind. No, I'm not saying that I wasn't responsible. I have no one but me to blame. But when you are in the position of an unwanted pregnancy, it is difficult to keep your thought processes clear and logical. If women had access to clear, logical, informative counseling than I would not feel as strongly as I do. But abortion clinics are not "into" counseling. You talk to some one, yes. All they do is take your medical history and make your appointments. Most of the women undergoing abortion believe they are at the end of the line. (Now, I use "most" - not all women feel this way)

You have the right to your opinion, and I support you in that. But things can change when you feel that tiny life inside of you for the first time.

 

[CelestialBody]