There's not enough hatred in the world

[BlackShanglan]

My characters won't hate each other properly. Well, really only one of them needs to hate the other, but he's being very unhelpful about it.

Originally he harbored a nicely seething resentment as the result of a sort of repressed desire / ugly lashing out after drunken advances were rejected sort of thing, which worked really well for generating the dislike but unfortunately screwed up other elements of plot and characterization. So now I've got thirty-odd pages of draft that all work very nicely provided that he's got a reason to hate the man, which he hasn't. To his credit, he's very good at being hateful; he just has, at the moment, no idea why.

What are some good reasons to hate someone? I'm having trouble coming up with a really persuasive one, given the following constraints:

(1) The hated person is pleasant, kind, and well-liked by most people who meet him.

(2) They both follow the same leader, who shouldn't be such an idiot as to take in a totally worthless person who hates others for no reason at all.

(3) The hated person is very competent, but also modest and not inclined to show other people up.

Envy could be part of a motive - the hated one is good-looking, talented, and well-liked - but that doesn't seem like enough on its own to instill a really venomous despite. Other weak spots in the hated one: he's a relative of the leader, he was born to a wealthy family (but is currently in rather desperate straits), he's staggeringly strong and doesn't always realize how that looks to others, and he still gets teased for the flashy outfit he was wearing when most of the group first met him - flashy enough that several of them thought him a complete ponce and idiot until he proved otherwise.

Clever ideas immensely appreciated. Or just tell me about someone you hate and why. Perhaps I'll glean a gem from it.

ETA: They're the same gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, and national origin. Alas, that kills all of the easy ones.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Money is always a good reason. Let's say this guy inherited wealth from his family, and his family made a fortune exploiting children in the Southeast Asian Sex Trade. Maybe his family owned the company that built the cremation ovens for the Nazis. And he doesnt care.

Maybe he made some babies in a foreign land and abandoned them and their mothers.

 

[Vermilion]

My characters won't hate each other properly. Well, really only one of them needs to hate the other, but he's being very unhelpful about it.

Originally he harbored a nicely seething resentment as the result of a sort of repressed desire / ugly lashing out after drunken advances were rejected sort of thing, which worked really well for generating the dislike but unfortunately screwed up other elements of plot and characterization. So now I've got thirty-odd pages of draft that all work very nicely provided that he's got a reason to hate the man, which he hasn't. To his credit, he's very good at being hateful; he just has, at the moment, no idea why.

What are some good reasons to hate someone? I'm having trouble coming up with a really persuasive one, given the following constraints:

(1) The hated person is pleasant, kind, and well-liked by most people who meet him.

(2) They both follow the same leader, who shouldn't be such an idiot as to take in a totally worthless person who hates others for no reason at all.

(3) The hated person is very competent, but also modest and not inclined to show other people up.

Envy could be part of a motive - the hated one is good-looking, talented, and well-liked - but that doesn't seem like enough on its own to instill a really venomous despite. Other weak spots in the hated one: he's a relative of the leader, he was born to a wealthy family (but is currently in rather desperate straits), he's staggeringly strong and doesn't always realize how that looks to others, and he still gets teased for the flashy outfit he was wearing when most of the group first met him - flashy enough that several of them thought him a complete ponce and idiot until he proved otherwise.

Clever ideas immensely appreciated. Or just tell me about someone you hate and why. Perhaps I'll glean a gem from it.

ETA: They're the same gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, and national origin. Alas, that kills all of the easy ones.

But the one he hates is nice, yes?

Hrmm.... the nice one got the girl the hating one wanted?
Or... the nice one is more successful than the hating one?
Or... the nice one isn't so nice, really.
Or... the hating one heard a rumour about the nice one that isn;t actually true, but the hating one thinks it is...

did those help at all?
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[starrkers]

The nice one bears a striking resemblance to a much hated bully from school days - hating one may not even be totally aware of this as the underlying reason for hating him, it just colours his view of everything the other is/does.

 

[The_Fool]

Why does it have to be rational? I am an irrational hater, quite often. Maybe it is the tone of their voice. Maybe it is the clothes they wear. Maybe it is because they look to feminine or masculine. Maybe it is their sense of humor. I find that the rational reasons for disliking a person I can overcome. It is the irrational ones that get me.

 

[Vermilion]

The nice one bears a striking resemblance to a much hated bully from school days - hating one may not even be totally aware of this as the underlying reason for hating him, it just colours his view of everything the other is/does.

Ooh- that's a good one!

Or he could look like the man with whom his mother ran off many years before... very Oedipal
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[gauchecritic]

projection springs to mind. He hates his step-father (whoever) and this guy subconsciously reminds him of the other.

or displacement. He hates himself for not being able to do something that the other guy asks.

Betrayal. Unreasonable blame. The other guy doesn't give your guy undivided attention. Goes off and does things with/for others without any notice. Which would probably mean that the hating guy reads more into the relationship than the hated guy.

 

[gauchecritic]

projection springs to mind. He hates his step-father (whoever) and this guy subconsciously reminds him of the other.

or displacement. He hates himself for not being able to do something that the other guy asks.

Betrayal. Unreasonable blame. The other guy doesn't give your guy undivided attention. Goes off and does things with/for others without any notice. Which would probably mean that the hating guy reads more into the relationship than the hated guy.

ETA. slow typing fingers, everybody already said these.

EATA. oops.

 

[neonlyte]

Difficult call. Hate is usually a personal response, an accumulation of small things tipped into hatred by a single act from which there is no return. Triggers? Jealousy, fear, theft (of innocence, a loved one), betrayal, deceit. Doesn't sound like power or wealth would be motives. Resentment can be cummulative but still imho needs a trigger to generate hatred; same applies to envy. I assumed you explored a sexual motive?

I'm not being much help here, just thinking aloud since I really find it hard to even dislike Scouries Which reminds me, pity. There's a nice pithy element to play with. Fostering pity can generate sufficient resentment to cause hatred especially if accompanied with a public display of pity, the kind that humiliates.

ETA: Nepotism

W

 

[Stella_Omega]

This guy is the embodiment of everything that your hater is not. That's a damn good reason to hate someone in some people's minds!

Remember-- the bad guy never thinks he's unjustified...

Ooh, Neon brought up a good one. Pity-- if your hated man showed a flash of pity-- that would do it. It could be the last straw.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Once, someone confessed that they couldn't stand me because everyone they'd known with the same name as me was a complete cunt to them. It didn't matter what I did, this person had already made up his mind to hate me as soon as I'd introduced myself.

 

[carsonshepherd]

Once, someone confessed that they couldn't stand me because everyone they'd known with the same name as me was a complete cunt to them. It didn't matter what I did, this person had already made up his mind to hate me as soon as I'd introduced myself.

Was it my brother? *snorks*

Sorry, Shang. *backs out of thread*

 

[slyc_willie]

The easiest reason for hating someone is because they represent what the hater is not. Envy, projection, and relative lack of respect all play into this.

Call the one who is hated Mr. A, and the one who hates him is Mr. B. Mr. A is handsome, strong, charismatic, and confident enough to wear a flashy uniform. He's had it made all his life, coming from a wealthy family, with connections to the leader of the group.

Mr. B. may not be so handsome. Or, at least, he has never been told he is. He is not as skilled, or charismatic. Maybe he has always wanted to be, but it has been difficult for him. The confidence and respect that Mr. A gets with apparent ease is almost impossible for Mr. B to achieve. Mr. A is everything Mr. B wants to be.

By hating Mr. A, Mr. B is telling himself that he is just as good, just as strong, just as charismatic and confident . . . but he has no way of showing it to the others. But once he does (or so his pathology goes), whoo boy, they'll see something like they've never seen before.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Was it my brother? *snorks*

Sorry, Shang. *backs out of thread*

Hahaha, no.


again, sorry, Shang.

 

[jomar]

As others have mentioned, I like the transference and projection strategies. It would allow for a bunch of subtleties. You might want to in throw some reaction formation stuff - like some prim woman on the anti-porn board who must review all the naughty movies! But I suppose that's a different story.

 

[Vermilion]

So? What happened? Didya pick a motive? Didya?

Ya gonna tell us poor saps?
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[Chantilyvamp]

I once took an irrational intense dislike of someone because of the way they pointed their finger into space every time they said the 5th or 6th word that spilled out of their mouth. It started as an annoyance and worked its way up to the point I'd have gladly have snapped their finger off for everyone. Didn't matter they were one of the nicest people you could meet, that finger just ruined the whole friendship!

 

[neonlyte]

I once took an irrational intense dislike of someone because of the way they pointed their finger into space every time they said the 5th or 6th word that spilled out of their mouth. It started as an annoyance and worked its way up to the point I'd have gladly have snapped their finger off for everyone. Didn't matter they were one of the nicest people you could meet, that finger just ruined the whole friendship!

Ohh... I hate the double handed 'quotes' thing... do they think I'm thick?

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Ohh... I hate the double handed 'quotes' thing... do they think I'm thick?

Maybe I don't "Wash the place between my crotch and my legs"

*snicker*

Q_C

 

[Quiet_Cool]

I think the "All the things he's not" routine is quite effective, and accurate, if done correctly. I once had a conflict with a co-worker for this reason, and it was mutual. He projected himself as what he thought he was supposed to be (basically a mysogynistic egomaniac) and he hated me for gaining the approval of some eventhough I tended to use humor to gain attention instead. I hated him because he was a projection of everything I didn't want to be, if for no other reason than because I was always told I was supposed to want to be that, the "alpha-male" who simply is better than others.

It escalated into something pretty damn ugly.

Q_C

 

[Vermilion]

I think the "All the things he's not" routine is quite effective, and accurate, if done correctly. I once had a conflict with a co-worker for this reason, and it was mutual. He projected himself as what he thought he was supposed to be (basically a mysogynistic egomaniac) and he hated me for gaining the approval of some eventhough I tended to use humor to gain attention instead. I hated him because he was a projection of everything I didn't want to be, if for no other reason than because I was always told I was supposed to want to be that, the "alpha-male" who simply is better than others.

It escalated into something pretty damn ugly.

Q_C

I think Shang stipulated that the two characters were actually quite similar though...

 

[Quiet_Cool]

I think Shang stipulated that the two characters were actually quite similar though...

Perhaps one's feeling overwhelmed by having another so similar to share the stage with... Or, perhaps the hater is "faking."

Just a couple thoughts.

Besides, I was simply exemplifying, not sugesting she use my personal experience.

Q_C

 

[Vermilion]

Perhaps one's feeling overwhelmed by having another so similar to share the stage with... Or, perhaps the hater is "faking."

Just a couple thoughts.

Besides, I was simply exemplifying, not sugesting she use my personal experience.

Q_C

I know, I was just highlighting that fact in case you'd missed it

tbh there have been some people who annoy me initially with something small - like their voice or mannerisms - and then that escalates and every teeny thing they do is annoying until it ends up in hatred... might be kinda hard to make seem valid in fiction mind...
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[Quiet_Cool]

tbh there have been some people who annoy me initially with something small - like their voice or mannerisms - and then that escalates and every teeny thing they do is annoying until it ends up in hatred... might be kinda hard to make seem valid in fiction mind...
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That happens with me a lot, though I can't say it escalates into much more than annoyance, even if it's constant. Of course, I don't sleep nearly enough, and I am half-crazy.

To add to what I said about one faking, bother faking might be better, assuming the hater is aware of it. It creates the old Fight Club, Jack and Marla scenario. "Her lie reflected my lie."

Q_C

 

[BlackShanglan]

Dear Lord, you people are great! This is a bonanza! Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! Between the excellent specific suggestions and the superb reminders on psychology and defense mechanisms, I think I see my way through to getting this working. I haven't picked a single idea yet, but you have all helped me immensely in realizing how the whole process needs to work - simmering resentment of all of the positive aspects that the hater can't achieve, magnification of every tiny negative or quirky aspect of the hated man into a monstrous offense, bitter attribution of the hated one's successes to nepotism or spotlight-hogging, and then one final blow that pushes him over the edge. Neonlyte, I loved your point on pity; the hated man is so gentle and kindly to people that he could very well err that way without realizing it.

I may have one possibility for that final blow; the hater only learns the hated man's real name when he's known him for some time, so it's possible that someone in his family has crossed him or that there's some bad connection in the past. The hated man is of a substantially higher social / economic class as well, so I think that I can re-trench some of his resentment of perceived delicacy from sexual to social class based.

I'm excited about the idea of hating people who remind you of someone you hate, too, because of course it's all the worse if that's why you initially dislike someone and then you find out that the reason he reminds you of your hated nemesis is because he's actually his son or brother. That could work very nicely, especially since there'd probably be a sense of betrayal there as well. I think the hating man does need a dramatic actuating point-of-no-return moment, because he's got to hate his target quite a lot - enough to want to hurt him, enough to be tempted to kill him, and enough to seriously consider selling out everyone he knows to accomplish that. But I think that if I can nail the right spark to set off that beautiful seething resentment, I'll have it.

Wonderful stuff. I'm much obliged! But Robin Hood will be so cross. I've just devoted a thread to finding ways to hate Will Scarlet.