Themed Contest Off-Topic Discussion

[sr71plt]

Well, this is interesting. Where the thread was cut and how the cherry picking of comments for it was done. Not to mention the very large elephant post that is missing from both threads.

Head in sand is business as usual, I guess.

Yep. Creative (and protective?) mods we have here.

I think it's long past time that they update the forum rules, which say all sorts of things that haven't been true for years.

 

[sr71plt]

Hi everybody.

For the record, I PM'd Laurel to inquire about this.

She said that the story in question was in fact submitted on time, but missed in an initial search for contest stories. When found, it was posted. She said they have done similar things at author's requests for years: i.e., an author misses a deadline, requests the story be entered, and they accommodate that.

I suspect that some may counter that this is the same people doing this repeatedly but I can't help you there. You may be correct, but complaints/questions about that should be sent directly to Laurel.

For the record, I inquired about the late posting only and not the category question some have mentioned. Given that the categories can be fuzzy sometimes, and many of us have puzzled over which one to use, and not least that I hadn't read the story in question, I just wasn't going to go into that.

Thanks.

 

[Kethandra]

Kethandra, I read your story ... I liked it, a fun read ... But I'm not sure it had to be in incest just because of Oedipus and his story. Do we have a mythology category? Fantasy? Celebrity?

Thank you, Shea.

Maybe you're right. I remember reading when I was starting to post stories here, that Incest was the 'trump' category. i.e.: regardless of other content, if it had incest in the content, then it would be assigned there. So I decided to make light of that in the intro. Now, I don't know where I read that. Perhaps I should have entered it as humor and know it might be moved.

Celebrity is the category for "stories involving characters or people that also exist outside litE," which is kinda funny. Batman, Miley Cyrus, and Frodo. So that fits well too.

Oh well. At least I got to mention trump in a non-political thread.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Maybe you're right. I remember reading when I was starting to post stories here, that Incest was the 'trump' category. i.e.: regardless of other content, if it had incest in the content, then it would be assigned there. So I decided to make light of that in the intro. Now, I don't know where I read that. Perhaps I should have entered it as humor and know it might be moved.

Maybe you're right. I remember reading when I was starting to post stories here, that Incest was the 'trump' category. i.e.: regardless of other content, if it had incest in the content, then it would be assigned there. So I decided to make light of that in the intro. Now, I don't know where I read that. Perhaps I should have entered it as humor and know it might be moved.

I too enjoyed your story. And I'm not sure if incest was the best home. Then again, I don't give a lot of thought to category.

Some time ago, I asked Lien Gellar to review a story of mine. Since he has a lot of topics he won't touch, I put forth what I thought was a fairly safe story about a Finnish god who owns a dance club.

Pretty early into it, Lien stopped because he ran into incest. See, this god had a semi-romantic relationship with his sister, but it hadn't even occurred to me that it was incest. He was a god. Most gods were incestuous. That was just the way of things in mythology. I never fetishize the relationship between the two. It's just a fact of the world.

I would have never put my story in incest. It would have never occurred to me. It's 30k words of gritty, absurd, dark modern fantasy, with one character relation that speaks to incest.

If you're exploring the kink, using the blood relation for sexual titilation, it's an incest story. Mine was not that.

I think yours is similar.

 

[AH_Mod]

The reason for removing the two posts that were not migrated is that they were full of personal attacks. Nothing more, nothing less.

This discussion will have a higher tolerance now that it has been split from the support thread, but name-calling and denigrating another author's work is still not going to be tolerated.

For future reference, the themed contest support threads are for support. If you wish to have a discussion about changes to the rules, the structure, or fairness of the contests, please start another thread, or continue to use this one. The negativity generated by these discussions is not in line with the purpose of the support threads.

 

[JKendallDane]

Thank you, Shea.

Maybe you're right. I remember reading when I was starting to post stories here, that Incest was the 'trump' category. i.e.: regardless of other content, if it had incest in the content, then it would be assigned there. So I decided to make light of that in the intro. Now, I don't know where I read that. Perhaps I should have entered it as humor and know it might be moved.

Celebrity is the category for "stories involving characters or people that also exist outside litE," which is kinda funny. Batman, Miley Cyrus, and Frodo. So that fits well too.

Oh well. At least I got to mention trump in a non-political thread.

Incest is *one* trump category, but I think you'll find GM even trumps incest normally. GM is pretty much THE trump card overall.

And even if you get a gay incest storyline into the incest category which does happen sometimes, you usually end up with scores that suck and comments that are...shall we say: less than complimentary? If it has any gay overtones or even a MFM or MMF bisexual theme, it falls under the Lit "Ivory Soap Rule"... 99.44% odds that it will be shifted over to GM.

That's why GM is called "The Smorgasbord of Lit."

.

 

[lovecraft68]

From what I have gathered there are three trump categories.

Incest
Gay Male
Non consent

Mix one of those on another category you'll pay the price.

Interracial isn't quite a trump, but it seems there is enough racist shit stains on lit to get some heat if you put it somewhere else.

On the other hand Lesbian and group seem acceptable just about everywhere and older/younger can work outside of mature.

Which brings up the question of why if your story contains a kink that would fit perfectly in a category why put it in a lesser one?

Many here know that answer, the story that sparked this belongs in group, but it would see over a thousand votes there and get no sweep help, therefore the catch all EC

But seeing this has splintered into its own thread where we'll have more room to 'speak'

Let's talk about another cabin members story that is an outright fetish story, even as the fetish called out in a title and its one that does well there, but its in novels and novellas.

Why? Because that author has gotten some big numbers in fetish high hundreds, has a nice readership over there so again for sweep help?

Let's put in a lower voted category.

And there's two thing-besides the obvious game that gets to me like that.

One its a shame readers won't follow their favorite author to a different category much of the time I see that when I post something other than incest and

Two that the site sees something than blatant and just lets it through like they let everything through, regardless of kink, rules, etc...

Many things bickered about could be avoided with something resembling diligence here.

So at this point as I said somewhere else it falls on the site more than the people taking advantage of it.

When The IRS finds a loop hole people are taking advantage of they close it the following year(and another gets found usually, but at least they are fixing what they see at the time)

When loopholes are found here they last forever until there are so many of them you get these situations

So the best analogy I have for it is when you go out to dinner and see a table full of unruly kids getting out of hand, is it the little kids fault or the parent pretending to be oblivious to them?

The sites response to any issue other than a bad glitch is to go 'blah blah blah" I can't hear you or to act like the parent watching TV while the kids do whatever they want in the other room and occasionally yell 'shut up in there'

So I'll repeat if you need that many edges and can't just write based on anything other than what's the sneakiest way to do this, then please do succeed at it, you obviously need the money and ego stroke more than everyone else here does.

 

[oggbashan]

Well in this particular instance we know why your stories are bombing. They were femdom.

Women on top? Bad Ogg, bad!

...

ETA on the self defeating. I should say 'lower' voted, not hardly voted as in like you said, how to and essays are lucky to see the 25 to qualify sometimes, but but going into a category that would get say 150-200 has a better shot than 1000 plus.

Incest usually goes over that, but mature and group can hit that at times as well.

Femdom? Yes, it is self-defeating to write Femdom. Although I do have a few people who like and appreciate my Femdom stories I don't need to go from my fingers to my toes to count the number of them.

Femdom challenges many readers' perceptions of themselves as superior males. The comments and feedback I get seem to come from insecure men who are threatened by my female characters. It's great that they believe in my characters enough to be frightened of them, but it wrecks the rating.

How-To category in a How-To contest was the only obvious category but the whole contest and all the entries received fewer votes than a normal themed contest. There was no advantage in writing in How-To that time.

The same was true for the Free Speech contest. Most of the entries were Reviews/Essays so no one gained an advantage by using that low voted category.

My only surprise was a Blue W for Review/Essay in a Winter Holiday contest. I hadn't expected that entry to be rated even as a Red H.

My W for Christmas Truce came from high numbers of votes (for me) and I think it won because it was just a good story.

What I knew I could win was the Authors' Hangout Last Place (tm) Contest. Femdom combined with a low traffic category and I'd rarely get the 25 vote minimum - then. That was why I disqualified myself from the Last Place (tm) Contest. But when I was running that contest, the number of votes for any themed contest entry were far lower than they are now. There were frequent appeals in the Review threads for a few more votes to get the minimum 25. Very few contest entries now fail to go well past the 25 votes and retain more than 25 even after sweeps.

More entries from a wider range of authors, more exposure of the contests to a wider range of readers, and I think any attempted gamesmanship would be foiled by the sheer quantity of contestants and votes. Bickering about the contests deters people from entering.

 

[Laurel]

Tx Tall Tales - your vote count demonstrates your popularity (whisper it quietly - and makes me slightly jealous).

But there are contest disadvantages to being so popular. The first is that it is very difficult to improve a story's rating with either a sweep or a few five votes. Both have little impact once you have hundreds of votes, and an insignificant effect when you have more than a thousand.

The second is obvious. It makes other authors jealous. I could be, but I write in relatively obscure genres. I don't expect, and don't get, hundreds of votes and hundreds of followers.

The stories you write are liked by a large number of people. If views on Literotica were paid, you would be one of the highest earners. The argument that popularity equals lack of literary merit should have died with Charles Dickens, but some people still believe that popular fiction is bad fiction. Nonsense! It is fiction that has a larger audience.

Please keep entering the contests.

You are a class act, Ogg. Thank you - for the many bug reports you've sent, for your positivity, for your consistent and unyielding support of authors and the site for so many years.

The contests are for fun. The purpose of the site is enjoyment for readers and writers. Every writer comes to Lit with different aims, with different stories to tell.

Tearing other writers down serves no purpose except to make the atmosphere toxic so that people are afraid to participate. Surely that is not the goal, right?

We welcome constructive, respectful, and intelligent discussions. Bashing, accusatory, and name-calling posts are not welcome here. Such posts will be removed.

A big thank-you to the vast majority who support each other and readers.

 

[Tx Tall Tales]

From what I have gathered there are three trump categories.

Incest
Gay Male
Non consent

Mix one of those on another category you'll pay the price.

Interracial isn't quite a trump, but it seems there is enough racist shit stains on lit to get some heat if you put it somewhere else.

On the other hand Lesbian and group seem acceptable just about everywhere and older/younger can work outside of mature.

Which brings up the question of why if your story contains a kink that would fit perfectly in a category why put it in a lesser one?

Many here know that answer, the story that sparked this belongs in group, but it would see over a thousand votes there and get no sweep help, therefore the catch all EC

I would point out to the less ignorant, you probably want group sex in a story before categorizing it as group sex. The story in question does not have any group sex. It has a series of one-on-one encounters, many, but not a single threesome or moresomes. Of course, it would take the ability to actually READ to determine that, instead of screaming about category switching. We wouldn't want FACTS or the TRUTH to interfere with our claims and conclusions now, would we?

The only categories that the story might be considered for as an alternate to EC, would be Novels and Novellas, or Humor and Satire, although there is one 'First Time' encounter. Now if the story had been placed in those ACTUAL low view categories, instead of the generic and 'catch-all' Erotic Couplings, how much whining do you think would be going on?

It's fair to say I understand category placement. I did, after all, write the 'book' on it, with valuable input from many of the site authors and denizens, including Sr71Pilot, Darkniciad and Laurel. Darkniciad's post 'Trump Categories, from back in 2010 (I think), was the starting point for my investigation and helped a lot.

BTW - as to the question earlier about Trump Categories - Here's some of the feedback Laurel gave me while writing my How-To on the subject:

- Non-erotic is for PG-13 stories: basically, the type of fiction you'd post on a mainstream fiction site/read in a mainstream fiction magazine. It is NOT for chapters of a longer work which happen to not contain sex.

- Reviews/Essays - just so you know, (and not sure if you need to mention it in this piece or not) we do not accept reviews of ebooks or websites.

- Non-English - This is no longer a real category. We can't delete it for technical reasons. So, if you have a work that is in another language, choose the language in the LANGUAGE dropdown, then choose the proper category according to the story content.

As far as the Trump categories go - the only two that for me are Trumps are Incest and Nonconsent. I will leave a story with a MMF threesome that involves male play in the Group category if that's where the author submits it, provided there is also hetero play. Some writers get blowback from having gay in the non-gay categories and thus prefer putting all stuff in Gay to be safe (though I know Gay readers get annoyed at excessive amounts of hetero in their stories as well), but that's not a site policy.

Basically, writers need to be aware that erotica readers surf by category and content of stories because their interests are much more specific than when they are reading non-erotic fiction. And they do not like being surprised. So if you have a romantic story that escalates into toilet play, do yourself a favor and put that story in Fetish with a tag of "romantic" rather than the reverse. And be sure your story is a fit for the category you're placing it in.

...

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I think this will be a useful essay! Thank you

Is there some vagueness of category, especially in large stories that have no 'trump'? Obviously. I believe my story is appropriately categorized. Why would I stear away from Group Sex, when I've won a contest in that category? The last time I entered a story in Group Sex, the same conspiracists screamed about it, saying I'd chosen an easy category for the win. Which was yet another falsehood, since Group Sex has one of the lowest winning percentages of the categories. But we can't have logic or truth interfering with our conspiracies and smearing, can we?

Shall we summarize? The conspiracist who's screaming about category 'switching' either didn't read the story, or is purposely lying about it to put their point across. The story is appropriately categorized.

I'll probably wait an awfully long time for my apology.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'll probably wait an awfully long time for my apology.

My bad for not being clear enough, I was going back to last year when I first noticed all this and there was mature story that was group and flirted very close with incest. That's what I meant by sparked all this, I went back without specifically calling all that out and it sounds exactly as you said.

Close as you get, and more than you'd ever admit.

But the fact you are very quick to call out what a lit expert you are-and you are, no sarcasm there, you have mastered this site which unfortunately means a lot of time its not about quality or lack of as much as playing readership well and that goes for everybody- shows you always know exactly what you're doing.

I think I found the right word above with loopholes, they're there for everyone, some make use, some don't.

I wrote an incest how to-that you looked over at one point I think-and its all there, I follow what I put in there, I get 4.7+ to 4.80, I deviate and pull one of my infamous depressing train wrecks I'm down .20 maybe more.

So if I thought I could place in a contest with incest(just about impossible these days unlike a few years back) am I going happy-happy or let's make the readers cringe? You know the answer but I'll prove it last year

"Forced to take my mother" nasty, but a trick ending showing it wasn't really nasty, but incest wants fluffy so 4.59

This Year same contest a playful fun little set up and not half as good(IMO as the other) 4.80

But notice I'm admitting how I can pretty much predict what I'll get by how I play it?

You can't seem to do that.

I like the hard road, its more fun and occasionally rewarding

By the way, my sister would like to meet you some day, but watch out, I'm the nice kid.

 

[sr71plt]

A question on the Group category, specifically to the idea that it requires "threesomes or moresomes." I ask because I have a story for a coming contest that is multiple-partner sex within a set group but not "threesomes or moresomes," and I thought it would fit solidly in the Group category (which specifies just "Orgies, swingers, and others"). The definition given on the Web site for the category doesn't specify threesomes or more. If that's the way it's to be understood, then where does musical-chair, multiple-partner sex within a set group that doesn't go to threesomes or more go in category? I think Group is still the best fit--especially as mine also includes elements of a lot of the other categories (no, not GM. If it included GM I'd feel, from experience here, that that's where it would have to go).

 

[Tx Tall Tales]

A question on the Group category, specifically to the idea that it requires "threesomes or moresomes." I ask because I have a story for a coming contest that is multiple-partner sex within a set group but not "threesomes or moresomes," and I thought it would fit solidly in the Group category (which specifies just "Orgies, swingers, and others"). The definition given on the Web site for the category doesn't specify threesomes or more. If that's the way it's to be understood, then where does musical-chair, multiple-partner sex within a set group that doesn't go to threesomes or more go in category? I think Group is still the best fit--especially as mine also includes elements of a lot of the other categories (no, not GM. If it included GM I'd feel, from experience here, that that's where it would have to go).

It's a great question, which I, for one, haven't come up against before. My gut is to agree with you, in a single setting, with multiple people switching partners and seeing each other, I'd probably go with group sex, even if the pairings don't include a third partner. It's definitely a group setting.

So yeah, I can see that weakens my argument a little. Damn you.

 

[sr71plt]

It's a great question, which I, for one, haven't come up against before. My gut is to agree with you, in a single setting, with multiple people switching partners and seeing each other, I'd probably go with group sex, even if the pairings don't include a third partner. It's definitely a group setting.

So yeah, I can see that weakens my argument a little. Damn you.

This story isn't single setting, though. It's a group of eight, four men, four women, all working in various capacities at National Airport. They're just a group of friends who take coffee breaks together. But then they mix and match in sex scenes (all hetero matching), totally separately and not in one setting (the voyeur/exhibitionist hook is that they get into scanning neighboring high rises with binoculars from their own apartments and latch on to each other across the divide engaging in sex--with various manners of fallout from there). The tension is that the women generally have come to Washington in search for husbands and the men generally have come in search for one-night stands.

So, I'm still thinking it's best in Group of all of the choices.

LATER: In thinking back on this, I realized that if a guy is watching a couple having sex in an adjacent high rise, that would be a threesome, especially if the couple realized he was watching. But in my specific story that doesn't happen. A couple of times a guy watches a woman walking around her apartment in the nude (and even exhibiting for him when she realizes he's watching) and he has another woman waiting for him back in his bed, but nothing is happening simultaneously as a threesome. The closest I get to a threesome is a woman exhibiting knowing that two guys in separate apartments are watching her through binoculars.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

I occupy a much lower rung in this conversation, so I'll give voice to that space.

The trouble, as far as I can see it, is that suspicion and indignation has gotten so pervasive around here--especially in regards to the contests and the top lists-- that there is no "fair" win. It doesn't matter what you do, if you are successful, even in the small, doubtful confines of what that means on a free erotic website, you will be attacked.

I don't game. Not even a little. My process is simple: I think of what I believe is a good idea--read: one that I find interesting and hope others will as well--that features sex or sexuality, and I write a story and see where it takes me. When I'm done, I dump it in what is often the closest fit as far as category goes (because I don't write with a destination in mind, my stories are almost never cleanly in one category or another) and see how it does.

I've been fortunate to do fairly well in regards to score, for what that's worth, and, more importantly, I've won a few contests.

And it's those wins that have caused me my problems. If not for them, I would be just another weird pervert writing strange stories on a free site. The conclusion would be that I liked writing and sex and that combining the two was a useful hobby to me in some way.

But because of those wins, I've been accused of being a gamer and a cheat, even a sadist and a misogynist--the last two are positively hilarious to me as anyone that knows where my own proclivities lay know that I am an absolute goon for femdom.

I write in low-voted categories because those are the categories my stories have lead me to so far. I write weird, often off-putting fiction, because I am weird, and often off-putting.

We are no longer free to be ourselves here, because who we are is now frequently seen as some attempt to manipulate the system for non-existent rewards. The Incest writer is attacked for writing in the biggest category. The Non-Human writer is attacked for writing in the softest. Non-Consent writers are rapists. BDSM authors aren't doing it right. At this rate, soon we'll be telling lesbians that they don't understand the female body.

Literotica is a haven for perverts and weirdos, deviants and degenerates, people with secret, burning desires and a hunger to share them. And that's what makes it a great place. That's its identity, if not its intent.

But all we do lately is tell people how they should write, what they should write, where to put it, and when they find any, even arbitrary, success expressing their passions, we vilify them for it.

I'm not sure what the point of this place was originally, but I'm fairly sure this wasn't it. Soon, if this keeps up, we really will have a problem: contests and top lists that only a gamer or a cheat would even want to appear in, because all of the honest writers will have long ago been frightened away by the fear of victory.

 

[sr71plt]

I didn't realize anyone had ever questioned one of your wins.

 

[oggbashan]

...

I'm not sure what the point of this place was originally, but I'm fairly sure this wasn't it. Soon, if this keeps up, we really will have a problem: contests and top lists that only a gamer or a cheat would even want to appear in, because all of the honest writers will have long ago been frightened away by the fear of victory.

The majority of readers and voters never visit the Authors' Hangout.

The majority of writers don't either.

All this discussion about game plans, cheating, manipulation is among a very few people on a forum that has very few readers compared with the daily visitors to Literotica. It is a storm in a very small tea-cup, and irrelevant to most of Literotica.

The negative discussions about the contests is just that - negative.

Entering a Literotica forum is still the best way to get your story/stories noticed. Some of that 'notice' will be adverse comments and votes from anonymous but some could be helpful and useful.

Winning a Literotica contest is pleasant but not life-changing. With three Blue Ws each contest, and the low number of entries, the competition isn't Olympic standard. The winning April Fool story might be the best of 61 entries, but one in twenty of the stories will get a Blue W. IF the number of contest entries was six hundred, or six thousand, then winning would be more meaningful.

It just isn't worth the effort to manipulate the contest by gamesmanship.

 

[sr71plt]

It just isn't worth the effort to manipulate the contest by gamesmanship.

I agree that it's not worth it. But it's obviously done (there's no other reason why there are sweeps, for instance). Which means there are some folks who don't have faith enough in the inherent quality of their stories to let them float unassisted in the various ways that obviously are at play in these contests. That's pretty pathetic.

 

[oggbashan]

I agree that it's not worth it. But it's obviously done (there's no other reason why there are sweeps, for instance). Which means there are some folks who don't have faith enough in the inherent quality of their stories to let them float unassisted in the various ways that obviously are at play in these contests. That's pretty pathetic.

Your third sentence doesn't necessary follow from your second. You assume that it is authors who manipulate the ratings. It could be anonymous trolls who just hate that author, or the theme of the story.

Letting your story float unassisted is what I do. But at times 1 bombs are obvious. Some readers honestly believe that a 1 vote is a normal response to a story that doesn't appeal to them and that all possible votes from 1 to 5 carry equal weight. They don't appreciate the damage that a vote of 1 or 2 can do to a rating.

The conspiracy theory assumes that the contests really matter. I don't think they are that important. They might be if the number of entries was ten times the current totals, but not now.

 

[sr71plt]

Your third sentence doesn't necessary follow from your second. You assume that it is authors who manipulate the ratings. It could be anonymous trolls who just hate that author, or the theme of the story.

Of course I think there are authors who are manipulating the ratings. They have the most to gain (actually, just about the only thing to gain). It's just common sense. And I don't live off in fairyland on this as much as you and Laurel choose to do--most likely for different reasons.

 

[oggbashan]

sr71plt, you can think what you like.

Disagreeing with you doesn't mean living in fairyland, just another and more plausible explanation now that we no longer have Literotica's self-proclaimed most popular author running fake contests.

 

[sr71plt]

sr71plt, you can think what you like.

Disagreeing with you doesn't mean living in fairyland, just another and more plausible explanation now that we no longer have Literotica's self-proclaimed most popular author running fake contests.

Well, yes. You were the one disagreeing with me here. (My post began with "I agree" ) I guess you didn't want me to respond with my own view of what that meant.

I never blamed Scouries for all that was going on that others were conveniently doing. That was, I believed, just covering up for a lot of manipulation others were doing.

 

[oggbashan]

Well, yes. You were the one disagreeing with me here. (My post began with "I agree" ) I guess you didn't want me to respond with my own view of what that meant.

I never blamed Scouries for all that was going on that others were conveniently doing. That was, I believed, just covering up for a lot of manipulation others were doing.

I agree with you about Scouries being blamed for things Scouries probably didn't do. What Scouries actually did was damaging enough and deterred people from entering the contests.

Your view is that authors manipulate the contests. My view is that there are other more feasible explanations for the necessity for the sweeps. We could both be right.

 

[lovecraft68]

Your third sentence doesn't necessary follow from your second. You assume that it is authors who manipulate the ratings. It could be anonymous trolls who just hate that author, or the theme of the story.

Combination of, I would think. The top lists have a lot of sniping going on. Many times if a top story is supplanted, the story that takes over seems to take a beating.

Now if it were an author, how many bombs can they give? I know there's ways that a person can somehow vote multiple times by changing ISP or if they have some type of program-as was attributed to scouries. But how many go that far? So I always took it as that authors fan base

There is an author on lit-still here as far as I know and not a forum poster-who has a blog, on that blog they at one point encouraged their readers to 'get even' on another author who commented poorly on their story, so that can happen to.

In the contests, I have always felt it was more authors than readers and friends of authors etc, but when things are anon there is no way to prove much everything is a guess good and bad.

But in the last year we've seen proof some want to see it, some don't. The site sweeps everything under the rug by always making the people pointing things out no matter what they are, even malfunctioning site features seem like they're the issue, not the issue itself. Years of that in GB backfired on them very recently with that mentality.

As for scouries, he's been gone-seemingly-a long time and even his last year + here he was so not himself people were wondering if he were a damn sock puppet of someone else all along or he was taken over.

But when I first came to the boards he was blamed for just about everything from manipulating the fav list, to the top lists to all the contests(yet never won one so I guess he sucked at it) and Freddie seemed to be mentioned a lot as well.

Now were they or weren't they? Again, hard to prove, but it seemed everyone had an easy time saying it was. Now when something pretty obvious seems t be going on its all denial. So to revisit. One author fucking with everything? believable. A group of them having and effect? Not.

humor me and think of the yearly awards for a moment, there is a sad few number of votes on many of these categories considering the enormous readership we have here, its frustrating to see how few readers will take a minute to support favorite authors and stories.

So taking that into account does anyone think that a concerted effort by 15-20 people can't have a heavy effect on that even just by giving their one legit vote apiece to their own nominees and then other people they get behind?

But to repeat earlier post, once things get to where they can easily be played then the system should adjust. Right now the sweeps themselves are as big an issue as anything, they-at this point as you told me once they seem to shift as time goes on-is skewed towards taking more votes away from already lower voted stories than higher ones, that's an issue right there and it's always denied and nothing will be done, unless they morph the other way again.

 

[sr71plt]

I agree with you about Scouries being blamed for things Scouries probably didn't do. What Scouries actually did was damaging enough and deterred people from entering the contests.

Your view is that authors manipulate the contests. My view is that there are other more feasible explanations for the necessity for the sweeps. We could both be right.

Since you brought the specter of Scouries up, Ogg, I'll note that all it would have taken to pop the balloon of that decade of Scouries gaming here was for Laurel to post a note a couple of times that the Web site didn't sponsor or sanction his nonsense. Didn't happen for an entire decade, though. Evidently it was good for business here, as, it would seem, are other games.