Impact of contest placing

[TheLobster]

Your argument is piling up a lot of "if"s.

Which is why I'm willing to concede it may have been a conscious decision by Laurel et al. to post the contest lists in this manner. And since we have contest tags as well, this is not a huge issue overall.

(Use the contest tags, guys )

 

[Actingup]

Lest we not forget, Buffalo and parts of NY and surrounding areas measure snow in the FEET. Having 10 FEET of snow on the ground is not uncommon. Same for areas of Upper Michigan and and Ontario around Lake Superior.

Are you trying to derail this further into a discussion of imperial measurements?

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Are you trying to derail this further into a discussion of imperial measurements?

Are you trying to derail this further into a discussion of a podiatry fetish?

 

[NotWise]

Re the stats: the vote trends are similar to the view trends.

For my stories this is only generally true. Both views and votes increase quickly in the first day, then curve to a relatively flat line. The ratio of votes per view changes. It typically drops after the opening, and that makes the trends diverge.

I use votes per view to indicate changes in the reading population.

 

[Erozetta]

I'll certainly let you know if I ever win anything

I'm evidence that no one is ever out of the running for these things.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Some thoughts on the subject- just my impressions, I am not a numbers person.

1. Not all contests are created equal. I suspect that if someone does want to crunch numbers, they will find that participation, by authors and readers, in certain contests, specifically, I'd guess, Winter Holidays, Halloween and Valentines Day, far outweigh the others. Participating in those "Big 3" will have much more impact than, in say, April Fools or Naked Day or whatever that is.

2. Most authors don't enter contests to win them. They do it for the exposure to new readers. Of course, if you do place in the winners circle, that benefit will be greater. How much? I don't know, but I assume that as I noted in point one, it probably varies widely by contest. My First Place story in the Winter Holidays contest has, to date, more than twice the views as my second most viewed story, and almost three times the views of my next highest standalone.

3. Not showing story category in the contest lists is a feature, not a bug, and a valuable one. If I am trying to reach new readers, I want to reach outside the regular readership in my usual categories. If I get a half dozen people who have never read in my category to check out my contest entry and they enjoy it enough to follow me, I don't care how many people click on the title, say, "Nope, not into that category, and click out again. As someone said earlier, leaving out category allows each story to start out on an equal footing. A story in Toys and Masturbation is presented on a level with one in Taboo/Incest.

4. Some authors give their stories a boost by promoting them in other settings, such as on Reddit, X, Bluesky, etc. That may seem unfair, but everyone has the same option to do so. And those same authors probably promote their non-contest stories in this places as well, so why wouldn't they?

5. The Annual Readers Choice Awards are a completely different deal, don't get them confused.

6. People enter contests for a lot of different reasons. Some really want to add a win to their "credentials". Some want the exposure, some want to see if they can pull off a good Christmas story. Some just like the fun or the camaraderie. Some might really want the prize money. It's all legit.

For those who really want to win, and think they are stymied by unfair rules or practices: I'm not much of a sports follower, but my husband listens to sports talk radio now and then, and I heard something I think is pertinent to this discussion. I don't know who the guy was, what team he coached or even which sport it was. But someone said to him, "Your team should have been champions, but you got a few bad breaks." He replied, "No, champions are champions because they can overcome bad breaks."

 

[SimonDoom]

For those who really want to win, and think they are stymied by unfair rules or practices: I'm not much of a sports follower, but my husband listens to sports talk radio now and then, and I heard something I think is pertinent to this discussion. I don't know who the guy was, what team he coached or even which sport it was. But someone said to him, "Your team should have been champions, but you got a few bad breaks." He replied, "No, champions are champions because they can overcome bad breaks."

I generally agree with this attitude and think it applies even more to writing stories than to playing sports.

When you play sports, you play to win. That's the whole point.

When you write stories, winning contests is a fun sideshow, but it's not the main event. You write to write. And if you lose sight of that, and you are overly concerned with winning a contest or getting the highest possible score, then in my opinion you have lost your way as an author. You are focused on what does not matter most.

There are all kinds of things beyond your control that will affect whether you win a contest or don't. Just accept that, keep writing, enjoy the accolades, and don't fret when the ball doesn't bounce your way.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I'm evidence that no one is ever out of the running for these things.

Oh, yes I am. Not only do I write unpopular themes dynamics and characters, even if by sheer luck I scored highly, there are certain people in this forum who will assure that I never succeed. I won't name names but I know who a few of them are.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I generally agree with this attitude and think it applies even more to writing stories than to playing sports.

When you play sports, you play to win. That's the whole point.

When you write stories, winning contests is a fun sideshow, but it's not the main event. You write to write. And if you lose sight of that, and you are overly concerned with winning a contest or getting the highest possible score, then in my opinion you have lost your way as an author. You are focused on what does not matter most.

I will echo this. Personally I can be very competitive. If we were to sit down at Monopoly, I would be cold and ruthless! Same with Yahtzee, although Yahtzee isn't interactive enough for my tastes. I would still play to kick butts and take names later. Now both of these games have a fair amount of luck involved, but if we played 12 games of Monopoly or of Yahtzee, I would probably win the most. I also play poker online and when I have someone where I want them I am literally thinking "Gimme your chips, bitch!" even though this might be a dear friend of mine. I'm very competitive.

However, when I write I'm not competitive at all. Anything to do with art, it's just not a competitive situation for me. When I was young I very quickly learned that the Billboard charts don't mean shit. I can like 5 songs this week or 50 and ranking them only takes away from the enjoyment. Also, once I got older and dated a guitar player, I found that all the different bands on the scene made the scene just more vibrant and enjoyable and it didn't really matter which one was best or worst or 2nd best. Art, for me, is just very inclusive. Obviously we all have our favorites, but ranking them 1 2 3 for me is just pointless and silly.

When I write, I write to create something. That's it. Even challenging myself to write better and better isn't really competitive. It's just what every artist who dearly loves the craft should be doing to honor the craft.

 

[SimonDoom]

Oh, yes I am. Not only do I write unpopular themes dynamics and characters, even if by sheer luck I scored highly, there are certain people in this forum who will assure that I never succeed. I won't name names but I know who a few of them are.

I'm curious how you could know this. I don't doubt that some of this goes on, but I don't see the evidence for believing that it's as prevalent as you suggest it is.

I have never, ever downvoted somebody's story out of animus for that author. Partly because I would feel icky to do that, and partly because I have better things to do. Why spend my time doing that? I would think that most other authors would feel the same way. They don't want to waste their time.

It's a natural, but inaccurate, human impulse to think that people are thinking about us, especially negatively, more than they really are. The reality is that people are spending almost all their time focusing on the problems of their own lives.

But I will also say this. There appears to be a correlation between those who complain that their stories are being downvoted, and those who create the most rancor in this forum. It's something to think about.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I'm curious how you could know this. I don't doubt that some of this goes on, but I don't see the evidence for believing that it's as prevalent as you suggest it is.

In my case, somebody in a thread here asked me for a link to one of mine. In rather short order, that score dropped nearly a half point ... from a high 4.6 to under 4.2

Now, that said, I don't know how fast scores are tallied and displayed after a reader submits their rating, but it seemed awfully suspicious.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I'm curious how you could know this. I don't doubt that some of this goes on, but I don't see the evidence for believing that it's as prevalent as you suggest it is.

When I only have 80 followers and most of my stories have less than 30 votes it only takes 3 or 4 people to crush my numbers.

How do I know who they are? When someone gets super upset with me in a thread and then 10 minutes later my entire catalogue gets hit, I know who it is. When someone gets super upset with me in a thread and 10 minutes later my most recent 3 stories get bombed, I know who it is and that they had already bombed the previous stories a few months before in a previous snit. ; )

I know three names for sure, and a couple others that I suspect. I also know one name who had a guilt trip (when I mentioned the petty practice in an unrelated thread) and changed all of the 1 votes on my stories into 5s.

But I will also say this. There appears to be a correlation between those who complain that their stories are being downvoted, and those who create the most rancor in this forum. It's something to think about.

And just use my name, smart-ass coward. I'm right here.

 

[SimonDoom]

And just use my name, smart-ass coward. I'm right here.

That's what I mean. You don't have to talk to people that way. But you do. And the results are predictable, but you complain about them. You want to have your cake and eat it too.

And I want to be very clear: I'm not talking about myself. I have never downvoted your stories and I never will. I don't do things that way.

 

[lovecraft68]

My experience: About two years ago I had a story place in the Halloween contest. After sweeps it had a score of 4.92 with only around 27 votes or something like that. The score immediately took a nose dive after that. Now, two years later, its score is 4.49 with 185 votes. I can't really complain about bombing, because presumably 185 votes offers a more accurate assessment of reader appraisal than 27 or whatever. It's in Erotic Horror, so it doesn't get that many views, unlike some other stories I've published.

But I also had a very positive experience with contests previously. My second story was published in December 2016. It was a BDSM story. It had a high score, but few views. Then, in the summer of 2017, it was suddenly getting a lot more views. The reason was that because of its score it was nominated in the top BDSM story of 2016 contest. I think I ended up in second place. The contest had a huge impact on the views the story was getting, and this was 7 months or so after the story was published. That story now has well over 100,000 views, and it's still my highest rated story (tied with one other). So, contests do matter. They can have a big impact.

With 27 votes it doesn't take much to knock a story down.

TBH The stories that win with that many votes has always been unfair because all a sweep has to do is take away a couple of bombs and its a huge jump. If a story has hundreds of votes losing even a couple of dozen bombs won't has as drastic of an effect.

But I believe its a minimum of 25 for categories that have little readership that might not see 50 votes or more. This was one of the cute little tricks some people here made a living out of, posting stories in ways to keep vote totals down

 

[Voboy]

In my case, somebody in a thread here asked me for a link to one of mine. In rather short order, that score dropped nearly a half point ... from a high 4.6 to under 4.2

How do I know who they are? When someone gets super upset with me in a thread and then 10 minutes later my entire catalogue gets hit, I know who it is. When someone gets super upset with me in a thread and 10 minutes later my most recent 3 stories get bombed, I know who it is and that they had already bombed the previous stories a few months before in a previous snit. ; )

Sometimes, @SimonDoom, it really is precisely this obvious.

I pissed off an AHer several years ago, when I was relatively new here. He was old and cranky and a fucking asshole, but he had a great deal of success in his writing and the ego to go along with it. I challenged him in a thread on this forum; he did not take it kindly here, and "by coincidence" six of my stories got pulled down due to an "anonymous report" within about an hour.

That's not exactly subtle. Granted, it was a long time ago and that particular asshole isn't here anymore, but I have no doubt some of this crap does still go on.

I also know one name who had a guilt trip (when I mentioned the petty practice in an unrelated thread) and changed all of the 1 votes on my stories into 5s.

WOW. That's another level.

 

[SimonDoom]

With 27 votes it doesn't take much to knock a story down.

TBH The stories that win with that many votes has always been unfair because all a sweep has to do is take away a couple of bombs and its a huge jump. If a story has hundreds of votes losing even a couple of dozen bombs won't has as drastic of an effect.

But I believe its a minimum of 25 for categories that have little readership that might not see 50 votes or more. This was one of the cute little tricks some people here made a living out of, posting stories in ways to keep vote totals down

Exactly. It's not fun to see your story's score sink like a stone. But it made me realize, it doesn't mean anything. I placed in that contest purely because of an accident of time and sweeps. It would be different if I'd written a story in another category and had 200 votes. But with votes in the 20s, it's a crapshoot.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

That's what I mean. You don't have to talk to people that way. But you do. And the results are predictable, but you complain about them. You want to have your cake and eat it too.

Just because you talks eloquently doesn't mean you're not an asshole at heart.

And I want to be very clear: I'm not talking about myself. I have never downvoted your stories and I never will. I don't do things that way.

I know that you have not downvoted me. You don't actually think that I though that you did, did you? If so you're even more arrogant than I thought. And that's pretty fucking arrogant.

 

[PennyThompson]

Colm: So, let's just call it quits and agree to go our separate ways, for good this time.

Pádraic: Your fat fingers killed me little donkey today. So, no, we won't call it quits. We'll call it the start.

Colm: You're jokin' me.

Pádraic: Yeah, no. I'm not jokin' ya. So tomorrow, Sunday, God's day, around 2:00, I'm going to call up to your house and I'm gonna set fire to it, and hopefully you'll still be inside it. But I won't be checkin' either way. Just be sure and leave your dog outside. I've nothing against that gom. Or you can do whatever's in your power to stop me. To our graves we're taking this. To one of our graves, anyways.

 

[lovecraft68]

Exactly. It's not fun to see your story's score sink like a stone. But it made me realize, it doesn't mean anything. I placed in that contest purely because of an accident of time and sweeps. It would be different if I'd written a story in another category and had 200 votes. But with votes in the 20s, it's a crapshoot.

We always talk about the flawed system, and I think contests really exemplify not only the voting issues but the reader disparity between categories which the site has no control over. Its not a level playing field in any way

 

[lovecraft68]

Colm: So, let's just call it quits and agree to go our separate ways, for good this time.

Pádraic: Your fat fingers killed me little donkey today. So, no, we won't call it quits. We'll call it the start.

Colm: You're jokin' me.

Pádraic: Yeah, no. I'm not jokin' ya. So tomorrow, Sunday, God's day, around 2:00, I'm going to call up to your house and I'm gonna set fire to it, and hopefully you'll still be inside it. But I won't be checkin' either way. Just be sure and leave your dog outside. I've nothing against that gom. Or you can do whatever's in your power to stop me. To our graves we're taking this. To one of our graves, anyways.

Is that from that depressing Banshee movie?

 

[PennyThompson]

Is that from that depressing Banshee movie?

apropos of nothing

 

[lovecraft68]

apropos of nothing

https://thefridacinema.org/2023/03/...t=This is a film about,of the Irish Civil War.

 

[Actingup]

Thanks everybody for the replies and insights so far, including the mention of vindictive bombing (yes, a thing), tactical bombing (also a thing), the lottery aspects and the reality that most of us are doing this for fun (but some people treat it as a squid game - see above), and the (to me) new discovery of contest snobbery (Nude Day isn’t a top tier contest?).

On that last point, I think it’s worth noting that several commentators have vehemently argued that Australia doesn’t have a winter, so I’m taking that as a pitch for Australians to try and take over Nude Day next year (sorry New Zealand, but you definitely do have a winter).

Out of interest re scoring, I did note scores around the time of contest closure of 4.92, 4.91, and 4.90 for the placegetters. They are now scored as 4.76. 4.81, and 4.74 respectively. Not massive drops, but it will be interesting to see if anything changes in the next sweeps as that might give more insight into whether it’s post-win targeting/or just ‘meh’ reader reaction. (Personally I think the extra reads and votes on the story make that a more than acceptable risk).

 

[PennyThompson]

https://thefridacinema.org/2023/03/06/the-banshees-of-inisherin-jenny-the-donkey-the-melancholy-of-the-irish-and-the-brilliance-of-martin-mcdonagh/#:~:text=This is a film about,of the Irish Civil War.

(I was teasing, yes it's from Banshees of Inisherin, and it might be apropos of something in this thread )

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I've never figured out how or why this board gets so divisive sometimes. Creative minds in overdrive? Kind of like when great bands break up because the members' egos collide?