The Walking "Thread"

[GermanGoddess]

Or about Lizzie and Micah's unfortunate ending. I was pretty cynical and unaffected by Hershel. Dude might as well have had a sign on his forehead. Or a countdown. But when I realized just how fucked Lizzie was, it made me feel feelings.

Lizzie and Mika. That episode ripped out my heart and chewed it to pieces. And made me remember why I like Carol.

 

[SpinElliptic]

I thought the writers had hit their limits with the Lizzie/Mika storyline -- but then, when they were ready to get all Deliverance with Carl for the finale...I'm not so sure there ARE any limits at this point. Yikes.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

I thought the writers had hit their limits with the Lizzie/Mika storyline -- but then, when they were ready to get all Deliverance with Carl for the finale...I'm not so sure there ARE any limits at this point. Yikes.

They DO have a limit, because as far as I can remember, nobody has actually BEEN raped.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

We could talk about the last few episodes.

No one is talking about where Beth might be. Or how much danger she is in. I always thought that this show tried to shy away from rape.

In season 1, when Shane tries to sleep with Lori against her will, she fights him off, there was a scene in the comics (somebody mentioned) where Michonne is raped and tortured by the Gov'nuh, but that bit was excised completely from the story in the show. When the Gov'nuh sexually abused and humiliated Maggie, he never 'did the deed'.

But after this finale, I guess rape is back on the table. But it's also only sort of back on the table. I don't even know anymore.

We could talk about the guys Darryl is running with.

We could talk about whether Beth and Darryl can work (how old is Beth? For that matter, how old is Darryl?)

Talk about the military guys, and how that really weird Ted Nugent, mouth-breather is supposed to know some big secret about the walkers. Or about Roxy (I think that's her name) the girl with the hoop earrings and short shorts. Are any of those three actually military? In what capacity if so?

Or about Lizzie and Micah's unfortunate ending. I was pretty cynical and unaffected by Hershel. Dude might as well have had a sign on his forehead. Or a countdown. But when I realized just how fucked Lizzie was, it made me feel feelings.

I like how there isn't a single human being left from Woodbury.

Hmmm...this thread disappeared for a while. Lots of catching up to do. I'll start with what's freshest in my memory.

First of all, I found the finale a little disappointing. The pacing was off. I didn't feel that all those flashbacks to the prison helped with the pacing, the mood, or the story. I know on TD Scott Gimple explained that the purpose was to tell Rick's entire story, to show how much he evolved over the season, but I don't think it was necessary and all it did was slow down the episode. Farmer Rick was just another temporary phase, and not who Rick had been all along. Throat biting Rick is much closer to the Rick we've come to know than the farmer he tried to be (and without the support of anyone else) back at the prison.

The Terminus reveal might have had more impact if it hadn't been discussed in blogs for the past five or six weeks. For me, that part was a let down. Also, I wasn't buying the suggestion that the entire party who reached Terminus last week was all dead. We didn't see anybody die, and there was just too much of the cast involved for that to be a credible threat. So finding them all alive in the railroad car was exactly what I expected.

The last point I want to touch on is Beth and Darryl. At first I was kind of uncomfortable with the two of them together, but I was started to get used to it when she disappeared. There were worse things that could have happened than for the two of them to hook up. According to the TWD wiki, Beth is 18 now and Darryl is in his early 30s, I think. Stranger things have happened, and how many options does either of them have?

Beth's fate: I think it's pretty clear that the funeral director or whoever was staying in that house came home, found the house occupied, and lured the walkers to the door. When Beth got out, he scooped her up and fled. I can only imagine what's happening to her now.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

and Darryl is in his early 30s

Ug...

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Hmmm...this thread disappeared for a while. Lots of catching up to do. I'll start with what's freshest in my memory.

First of all, I found the finale a little disappointing. The pacing was off. I didn't feel that all those flashbacks to the prison helped with the pacing, the mood, or the story. I know on TD Scott Gimple explained that the purpose was to tell Rick's entire story, to show how much he evolved over the season, but I don't think it was necessary and all it did was slow down the episode. Farmer Rick was just another temporary phase, and not who Rick had been all along. Throat biting Rick is much closer to the Rick we've come to know than the farmer he tried to be (and without the support of anyone else) back at the prison.

The Terminus reveal might have had more impact if it hadn't been discussed in blogs for the past five or six weeks. For me, that part was a let down. Also, I wasn't buying the suggestion that the entire party who reached Terminus last week was all dead. We didn't see anybody die, and there was just too much of the cast involved for that to be a credible threat. So finding them all alive in the railroad car was exactly what I expected.

The last point I want to touch on is Beth and Darryl. At first I was kind of uncomfortable with the two of them together, but I was started to get used to it when she disappeared. There were worse things that could have happened than for the two of them to hook up. According to the TWD wiki, Beth is 18 now and Darryl is in his early 30s, I think. Stranger things have happened, and how many options does either of them have?

Beth's fate: I think it's pretty clear that the funeral director or whoever was staying in that house came home, found the house occupied, and lured the walkers to the door. When Beth got out, he scooped her up and fled. I can only imagine what's happening to her now.

And I kind of liked the flashbacks. The idea behind them, anyway. I thought that the pacing was a little off, and that maybe they had one too many, but that scene with the one kid and the legos was pretty sad for me. Because I liked him a lot.

With Carl, Sophie, lego kid (he was the one that died of the infection first), Mikah, and Lizzie, a recurring theme seems to be,

Grow up now, or grow up dead.

 

[PennLady]

Got to watch it, only one day late*

I liked it, and I think I'd agree the pacing was either off or odd, but in a way that contributed to just an off-kilter feel on the whole thing. I'd argue that we didn't really *need* the flashbacks; I think they've made it pretty clear that Farmer Rick was never going to work, no matter how much Rick wanted it to, or how important Herschel thought it was.

OTOH, Rick has been someone who, mostly, wants to keep a sense of decency if he can. Not necessarily normalcy, although a little of that, too. It's why (we all know) that he tried to protect Carl as much as he could, why Carol didn't want him to know what she was teaching the kids, etc. But that darkness was always close to the surface, because Rick wants to survive. He won't necessarily survive at the expense of someone else, if he can help it, but to paraphrase another famous Rick, "I stick my neck out only for certain people."

I will say that when they came to the shot of Rick covered in blood and sitting by the vehicle, my first thought, and Mr. Penn's, was that Carl was dead. Either Rick killed him, or someone else had and Rick had taken vengeance on them, and perhaps had had to ensure Carl wouldn't return as a walker. I actually thought the whole episode was going to circle around to that scene, but instead it was only the first half or third. And in large part I thought that because I had seen a couple of headlines like, "Walking Dead finale is brutal," and things like that.

I knew Terminus was bad news, but it took me a minute to put together all the clues. Still, I thought it was well done. And I can't remember when it first occurred to me, but I definitely had a moment and thought, "Oh, shit! She's cooking people!" It reminded me, of course, of "Fried Green Tomatoes." And then it's confirmed, to a degree, when the four are running around and you see the pile of meat and bones. For a show that has a lot of in-your-face gore, I thought that was a fairly subtle way of getting it across.

So when I saw that, although I did not expect that everyone else was dead, I would not have been entirely surprised to find a couple of people dead, or many of them in some kind of captive distress. I saw the freight car and wondered if the Terminites put people in there to basically bake to death.

Miscellaneous:

* When Daryl told Rick that Beth was gone, why did he phrase it that way? Why not say she was kidnapped? Maybe to make himself believe there was nothing he could do/could have done? Easier for him to think she's gone than to hope?

* Interesting question Carl posed about what they should tell people when they met up again. From what we've seen, Rick, Carl and Michonne haven't really done anything that awful, not like what Carol did.

* Will Maggie ever ask what happened to Beth? She's always been about finding Glenn, but come on.

* What proof do we have that Eugene knows anything, let alone what caused the virus and how to cure it?

 

[soflabbwlvr]

I knew Terminus was bad news, but it took me a minute to put together all the clues. Still, I thought it was well done. And I can't remember when it first occurred to me, but I definitely had a moment and thought, "Oh, shit! She's cooking people!" It reminded me, of course, of "Fried Green Tomatoes." And then it's confirmed, to a degree, when the four are running around and you see the pile of meat and bones. For a show that has a lot of in-your-face gore, I thought that was a fairly subtle way of getting it across.

I agree regarding the subtle reveal. To me, that confirmed what I already suspected/sort of knew, but it was one of the better instances of restraint in a show that usually uses a sledge hammer to get it's points across.

* When Daryl told Rick that Beth was gone, why did he phrase it that way? Why not say she was kidnapped? Maybe to make himself believe there was nothing he could do/could have done? Easier for him to think she's gone than to hope?

Good question. I think he blamed himself for the loss and was trying not to deal with it. He already fell apart in the middle of the road before the bikeless biker gang absorbed him. Maybe he was trying to avoid the subject.

* Interesting question Carl posed about what they should tell people when they met up again. From what we've seen, Rick, Carl and Michonne haven't really done anything that awful, not like what Carol did.

I was wondering about that too. Maybe he was feeling some guilt over that kid he shot in season 3?

* Will Maggie ever ask what happened to Beth? She's always been about finding Glenn, but come on.

This has been bothering me all spring. Sure, she and Glenn were "married", but Beth is/was her sister, dammit. No sense of loss there?

* What proof do we have that Eugene knows anything, let alone what caused the virus and how to cure it?

None, and that's probably what Eugene is worried about. I don't think he knows a damn thing, but convincing Abraham that he did made him seem important and worthy of protection. I think he's running a scam.

 

[PennLady]

I agree regarding the subtle reveal. To me, that confirmed what I already suspected/sort of knew, but it was one of the better instances of restraint in a show that usually uses a sledge hammer to get it's points across.

Did anyone get a good look at the room filled with candles? I saw names on the floor. I wondered if those were the names of victims, or of current/previous Terminus residents. There was enough detail in that set that I think they'll have to come back to it. I mean, if it's not important, why go to that trouble?

Good question. I think he blamed himself for the loss and was trying not to deal with it. He already fell apart in the middle of the road before the bikeless biker gang absorbed him. Maybe he was trying to avoid the subject.

I definitely think he blames himself, and I'd understand if he's basically given up on finding Beth. I guess at the moment it's 50/50 as to whether he thinks the others will blame him as well, which would be another reason he didn't tell Rick the full story.

I was wondering about that too. Maybe he was feeling some guilt over that kid he shot in season 3?

I think I misunderstood his statement, now I've thought about it. I don't think Carl was referring to their friends -- I think he meant, what are we going to tell the people in Terminus? I think the rest of the group would give them a pass on most things, knowing that you often don't have much choice if you want to survive.

This has been bothering me all spring. Sure, she and Glenn were "married", but Beth is/was her sister, dammit. No sense of loss there?

Yes, exactly. She hasn't even said she's assuming Beth is dead. Didn't Maggie and Sasha talk about that stuff, when Sasha said she's afraid of learning that Tyreese is dead? I don't think Maggie mentioned Beth even then. It is weird; you'd think they should be worried about both of them.

I also have to say, I never got much of a romantic vibe between Daryl and Beth. I mean, if they'd slept together, that would have been fine with me, but I would have taken it more as two people looking for comfort rather than any deep love. For all that Daryl seemed to be softening with regards to Beth, to me it was more like he was putting her on a pedestal, like she represented the good parts of life that he felt he didn't deserve, or could ever have.

None, and that's probably what Eugene is worried about. I don't think he knows a damn thing, but convincing Abraham that he did made him seem important and worthy of protection. I think he's running a scam.

I can't help but think that, too. And this comes under the "stupid actions" heading for me -- why wouldn't Tara or Glenn, both of whom have been alone with Abraham and/or Rosita at some point, ask that? (You know, like why enter a tunnel o' walkers if you don't have to? Especially when cars are apparently nearby which would make going around easier and faster?) I mean, you don't have to ask in front of Eugene. But at least after a while, you'd think that would occur to someone, and I'd think to Tara, since she's not wrapped up in finding Maggie like Glenn is.

Stray thought: Isn't it amazing how something like two years after society collapsed, these cars that are just sitting around all over the place a) have gas in the tanks and b) start?

 

[Quiet_Cool]

The flashbacks to Herschel didn't bother me. I think they did good to mesh Rick together. I don't believe we were going through the same Rick is a killer or a farmer struggle. I think it was a merger. The two sides seemed to say, "kill now, grow shit later."

We now have a Rick who cuts your testes off, then mashes potatoes. Well, until he stumbles across another telephone.

Did anyone get a good look at the room filled with candles? I saw names on the floor. I wondered if those were the names of victims, or of current/previous Terminus residents. There was enough detail in that set that I think they'll have to come back to it. I mean, if it's not important, why go to that trouble?

Candles... Religious cult?

I definitely think he blames himself, and I'd understand if he's basically given up on finding Beth. I guess at the moment it's 50/50 as to whether he thinks the others will blame him as well, which would be another reason he didn't tell Rick the full story.

I got the impression that this was done for more reasons that Daryl's character. The writers may not have a certain idea of how to handle Beth's disappearance within the group, so Daryl's response might be the cryptic open-ended statement they need to not work against later. They have till they start shooting to make changes, but not against what they've already released to the public.

I think I misunderstood his statement, now I've thought about it. I don't think Carl was referring to their friends -- I think he meant, what are we going to tell the people in Terminus? I think the rest of the group would give them a pass on most things, knowing that you often don't have much choice if you want to survive.

Yeah; you don't want to mention biting out someone's jugular recently. Though as an ice-breaker, it beats teenage girlfriend stories (from when you were a teenager, that is).

Yes, exactly. She hasn't even said she's assuming Beth is dead. Didn't Maggie and Sasha talk about that stuff, when Sasha said she's afraid of learning that Tyreese is dead? I don't think Maggie mentioned Beth even then. It is weird; you'd think they should be worried about both of them.

I can see this as being realistic. You gotta figure, she has two family members left: Glenn and Beth. Immediately after watching her father die, the two are gone. This is a hope on a limb scenario in my viewpoint. Neither may be alive, or one or two. Likelihood is against both, and one might be a push. This is raw fear. If she's going to hope to have any family left, Glenn makes more sense as someone who's survived. Beth, without Daryl, wouldn't have lasted long. If you're Maggie, you focus on Glenn, and try not to think about what frightens her most and just happens to be the most likely end. If you focus on Beth, hope won't hold out long.

I also have to say, I never got much of a romantic vibe between Daryl and Beth. I mean, if they'd slept together, that would have been fine with me, but I would have taken it more as two people looking for comfort rather than any deep love. For all that Daryl seemed to be softening with regards to Beth, to me it was more like he was putting her on a pedestal, like she represented the good parts of life that he felt he didn't deserve, or could ever have.

Nah; the romantic angle is pure fangirl thinking, IMO. Daryl was going through a back and forth, hope versus no hope, and Beth was integral to that. Beth on the other hand was lonely, feeling shunned by Daryl, while having nowhere else to turn. The connection was more personal salvation in orientation. I got the impression from the episode where they burn the cabin that Beth is more a representation of innocence to Daryl. She wants to get drunk for the first time, and Daryl is dealing with "survivor's guilt" (far from innocence, to be sure). When he finally starts letting his guard down, there goes innocence, stolen away in a speeding car, and who does he run into? The exact opposite of innocence, throatless biker-dude rapist and killer and his gang.

Now that I'm writing this down... Damn, zombies are deep.

I can't help but think that, too. And this comes under the "stupid actions" heading for me -- why wouldn't Tara or Glenn, both of whom have been alone with Abraham and/or Rosita at some point, ask that? (You know, like why enter a tunnel o' walkers if you don't have to? Especially when cars are apparently nearby which would make going around easier and faster?) I mean, you don't have to ask in front of Eugene. But at least after a while, you'd think that would occur to someone, and I'd think to Tara, since she's not wrapped up in finding Maggie like Glenn is.

Let's face it. Abraham knows that Eugene is full of it, and so does Rosita, but Abraham is a military man, and a mission, real or imaginary, gives him something to do. Direction and purpose. I think now that he's in touch with Rick and the group, those two needs'll be fulfilled with the group and it'll make no difference that Eugene is a fake. By then, the Mullet Man might have redeemed himself, or at least grown on everyone. Or gotten eaten by... well, could be anyone, alive or dead at this point.

Stray thought: Isn't it amazing how something like two years after society collapsed, these cars that are just sitting around all over the place a) have gas in the tanks and b) start?

I find it amazing that certain routes to certain places, the roads are pretty clear, but yet and still, they resolve to constantly wander through the woods. Similarly, when the Terminus people have assault rifles, Daryl has Rick covered with the crossbow, and didn't Michonne grab the sword again?

Q_C

 

[Seanathon]

I liked the finale, though I do think the flashbacks were kind of pointless. Nothing revealed about any of the characters that I didn't already know.

And everyone that I watched the show with automatically assumed Terminus was a trap as soon as they saw the first signs. And as soon as we saw the woman cooking steaks on the BBQ we all said, "It's people!"

After what happened with the governor, I was a little surprised how easily they walked into the trap. Rick went to all the trouble of hiding the guns in the wood to make sure they didn't fall into the wrong hands. I don't know why he didn't send one person alone (Daryl) into Terminus first to scout it out. Then if he is captured you can form a rescue party to free him. I also couldn't figure out why they didn't scout the perimeter first. Maybe then they might have spotted the half dozen guys with automatic weapons hidden behind the far fence on the off chance that strangers showed up that day. I did like the way they herded them like farm animals to the pen though.

I guess it's up to Tyrese and Carol to save the day now (and Judith). Or maybe Beth and her car date will show up to rescue them.

Speaking of that, I have a friend who insists that after how long the walkers have been around (has it been three years?) that the gasoline in the cars would all be bad and that none of the engines would fire. Does that sound right?

 

[soflabbwlvr]

I liked the finale, though I do think the flashbacks were kind of pointless. Nothing revealed about any of the characters that I didn't already know.

And everyone that I watched the show with automatically assumed Terminus was a trap as soon as they saw the first signs. And as soon as we saw the woman cooking steaks on the BBQ we all said, "It's people!"

After what happened with the governor, I was a little surprised how easily they walked into the trap. Rick went to all the trouble of hiding the guns in the wood to make sure they didn't fall into the wrong hands. I don't know why he didn't send one person alone (Daryl) into Terminus first to scout it out. Then if he is captured you can form a rescue party to free him. I also couldn't figure out why they didn't scout the perimeter first. Maybe then they might have spotted the half dozen guys with automatic weapons hidden behind the far fence on the off chance that strangers showed up that day. I did like the way they herded them like farm animals to the pen though.

I guess it's up to Tyrese and Carol to save the day now (and Judith). Or maybe Beth and her car date will show up to rescue them.

Speaking of that, I have a friend who insists that after how long the walkers have been around (has it been three years?) that the gasoline in the cars would all be bad and that none of the engines would fire. Does that sound right?

That's my understanding also. The alcohol that is added to the gasoline evaporates, leaving water behind. Gasoline mixed with water won't spark.

On a similar note, down here in hurricane zone we know that it's important to fill our gas tanks before a hurricane because if the storm knocks out the electricity, then the gas pumps can't pump gas. How were they refilling their vehicles? How did Abraham and his party make it all the way from Texas? I don't recall ever seeing anyone carrying a hose on their road trips.

 

[Swilly]

That's my understanding also. The alcohol that is added to the gasoline evaporates, leaving water behind. Gasoline mixed with water won't spark.

On a similar note, down here in hurricane zone we know that it's important to fill our gas tanks before a hurricane because if the storm knocks out the electricity, then the gas pumps can't pump gas. How were they refilling their vehicles? How did Abraham and his party make it all the way from Texas? I don't recall ever seeing anyone carrying a hose on their road trips.

True about the gas. But come on. We all accept flesh eating zombies. I think we can accept that cars still run, can't we?

 

[PennLady]

After what happened with the governor, I was a little surprised how easily they walked into the trap. Rick went to all the trouble of hiding the guns in the wood to make sure they didn't fall into the wrong hands. I don't know why he didn't send one person alone (Daryl) into Terminus first to scout it out. Then if he is captured you can form a rescue party to free him.

It could be that after being apart and reuniting, people didn't want to separate again. Not saying yours isn't a good plan, but I could understand why they might try to stay together. I also thought they did some scouting, since Rick said they should spread out and watch a while before going in. It could be those guys weren't there on the perimeter initially; they could have been sent out after Rick, et al, started running. The herding was cool, though.

That's my understanding also. The alcohol that is added to the gasoline evaporates, leaving water behind. Gasoline mixed with water won't spark.

On a similar note, down here in hurricane zone we know that it's important to fill our gas tanks before a hurricane because if the storm knocks out the electricity, then the gas pumps can't pump gas. How were they refilling their vehicles? How did Abraham and his party make it all the way from Texas? I don't recall ever seeing anyone carrying a hose on their road trips.

I figured something like that with the gas.

I think they probably siphoned gas from the cars they found along the way. I can't remember, but I think we saw that happen way back in season one or two.

True about the gas. But come on. We all accept flesh eating zombies. I think we can accept that cars still run, can't we?

I'll accept it as a device of convenience for the show, but it bugs me. The zombies have been given a reason for existing -- the Wildfire virus and how it spreads -- and they follow certain rules. For the most part, other things in the show work as they should; electricity is only there if people find a way to generate it. They don't generally walk into a house and turn on a light switch and have it work.

But speaking of cars, one thing that bugged me in seasons one and two is how they would go on highways, and only one side was filled with cars, like the ones leaving Atlanta. If it was that bad and you wanted to empty the city, wouldn't you open all lanes in one direction out, as they've done with hurricanes? Or, the opposite, wouldn't you close all the lanes to prevent more people coming in, so they should be empty?