The 'stimulus' isn't going to work, and why.

[hogjack]

I'll bet MY 401K has lost more in this quarter than you earn in a year

When it hits $0 let's share a celebratory cigar!

What the hell would you use the money for except young hookers of either gender, cheap buffet-style dinner at 4pm, and ineffective hairplugs.

 

[jhuson]

They did. You can go into as much denial as you want but ony the NYT and WAPO were pissing and moaning about the economy. (Which is what they do everytime a repub is in the white house no matter what the reality of the economy is.)

You keep referning to the 'tax cuts on the rich' and then profess that you have no envy whatsoever. I say you're a liar. The Bush cuts applied equally to everyone across the board. The rich got no more, nor no less a cut, than anyone else. By focusing on 'the rich' (whatever in the hell that means) you show yourself to be just another envy merchant that has bought into the whole economic class warfare mantra that the democrats kept chanting.

You then compound the err of your ways by implying that it's the rich that were making the economy hum along and that by their pulling out (hordeing) the economy is tanking. Those rich you are talking about are John and Mary Lunchbucket. They are teachers, cops, factory workers, sales people, the entire spectrum of the population. They had a net worth of around a million bucks. This was in the form of their home and their retirement funds. What they lacked in raw wealth individually they more than made up for in numbers. There are millions of them and their cumulative net worth was in the trillions of dollars. Those are the people that made the economy go and those are the people that aren't going to be playing the game anymore.

You can play the wealth envy game all you want. Increase the taxes on the most wealthy, most of whom happen to be small biz, and you still will never be able to make up for those trillions of dollars that are coming out of the economy and staying out of the economy. If you can't get those people back in the game, your fucked.

Ishmael

http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/public_investment_far_better_than_tax_cuts/

You keep bringing up class warfare and envy. Keep your projections to yourself.

I'm pretty happy with myself -- and I don't have to spend all my time posting on a porn board to try and pretend that I am important. I've done alright for myself thus far and don't begrudge those that make more or less than I do.

But I do recognize BS when I see it.

 

[jhuson]

juhson, I'll bet MY 401K has lost more in this quarter than you earn in a year, but you (and zippy, the Pinhead) keep right on defending the guy who thinks a PE ratio is Profits to Earnings...

ROTFLMAO. The word "relevant" mean anything to you?

Yes Capn Warren Buffett. I'll just slink back to my lean-to next to the river and dream about you in your money room, surrounded by bags of gold.

 

[unregistered]

 

[hogjack]

Yes Capn...dream about you in your money room, surrounded by bags of gold.

The Cap and Ishy will take shifts standing guard.

But you know there'll be some hanky-panky between shifts.

 

[zipman]

Is this the thread where Lit's right wing shows us how the republicans are the party of ideas?

 

[hogjack]

the republicans are the party of ideas?

Here's a great idea - dance for me, baby. Shake that thang!

Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison fought against earmarks this week, urging her colleagues to trim wasteful spending from a $410 billion bill and even voting to strip all 8,500 earmarks from the measure.

Yet Hutchison also was the state's biggest sponsor of earmarks – more than $150 million for Texas.

"I do think that earmarks are a legitimate role of Congress. I don't think that we should be earmarking things that do not have a national interest," the Republican senator said. "Can it be overdone? Yes. Should it be transparent? Yes. But that is the role of Congress, to determine how we spend money."

 

[MeeMie]

Dem's War on Small Business Predicts 14% to Fail In Next Year

Talk about a crisis...

14% of small businesses fear they are going to close their doors in the next 12 months because of Democratic policies.

And, it could be even worse than that.

In the 2.3 trillion dollars Democrat spent to stimulate the economy not one dime has gone to small businesses so far.

100% of that 2.3 trillion dollars so far has gone to the top 1% of American companies.

Small businesses are, of course, the engine of the economy.

Small businesses have been virtually ignored by the Obama Administration and Democrats in Congress (they aren't big Dem donors). As a result of the crisis, 14% of small businesses are likely to shut their doors in the next year.


• 97% of all new jobs are created by small businesses.

•70% of our economy is created by small businesses.

• Small business people are the ones who make around $250,000 per year, in that area.

If 14% of small businesses closed their doors this year it would be an absolute disaster.

 

[Byron In Exile]

At the very least, his message about his country would not have been a negative message.


That, as much as anything, has destroyed confidence as the skin in the game realized, "HOLY MERD! This Democrat actually BELIEVES the usual rhetoric!"

I don't know if he believes anything. He's riding the Obamamania wave. Who was that idiot that said he got tingle up his leg listening to his rhetoric?

Anyway, yeah, he went from Mr. Hope to Dr. Doom in less than ten senconds after election night.

And his whole administration is going to be about how they couldn't beat back the great Bush Dragon. How eight long years of a Republican President, even with a Democratic House and Senate, couldn't prevent the Apocalypse.

A Democratic House and Senate needs a babysitter, even an imperfect one who twitches sometimes.

Now, there isn't one. Good luck, kids.

Maybe it would have been the same under McCain. He acted like he might twitch sometimes, but probably he would have just rolled over for a belly-rub.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Oh. yeah, if you have a 401k IRA plan?

Don't listen to your 80-year old investment advisor.

He has no idea what's coming.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Is this the thread where Lit's right wing shows us how the republicans are the party of ideas?

Zipman, neither party has any ideas.

You can take that to the bank.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Oh man, did you have to make me almost spew my coffee this morning?

I didn't spew personally, but you kids are so on.

I used to go to the Library when I was young. That was before the Internets.

We used to dream of such a system, and now it's mainly used for porn.

We didn't know what "porn" was, being kids, but what if the whole world could be linked in some sort of global information system? Wouldn't that just pretty much solve all the world's problems?

Somehow, it didn't.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

I don't know if he believes anything. He's riding the Obamamania wave. Who was that idiot that said he got tingle up his leg listening to his rhetoric?

Anyway, yeah, he went from Mr. Hope to Dr. Doom in less than ten senconds after election night.

And his whole administration is going to be about how they couldn't beat back the great Bush Dragon. How eight long years of a Republican President, even with a Democratic House and Senate, couldn't prevent the Apocalypse.

A Democratic House and Senate needs a babysitter, even an imperfect one who twitches sometimes.

Now, there isn't one. Good luck, kids.

Maybe it would have been the same under McCain. He acted like he might twitch sometimes, but probably he would have just rolled over for a belly-rub.

You and Ish keep acting like McCain would be powerless, that the thing would have played out no matter what, the thing has a smell of ineviability, not to put words in your mouth, but...,

McCain didn't yearn to be a transformational President, Obama did. McCain didn't tell the rich, I'm going to raise your taxes, in fact, he probably would have assured them that he was going to make the past tax cuts permanent instead of implying that he would allow them to expire. The Presidency is the most powerful bully pulpit in the world, and I don't think McCain would have used it to send the message, don't be afraid of rough financial seas, PANIC! In short, I think Obama has thrown kerosine on the fire because panic allows him to get by with more while he's popular; he is more concerned with getting the money back that he deems was stolen from the little people by the big people than he is in stewarding the whole of the national economy, because that would mean allowing the rich to continue to steal.

For years we have smugly laughed at the European "Social Democracies" for their nagging unemployment and lack of innovation, but we now have adopted their model. DeTouqueville wrote about how we would vote ourselves into a system of complex rules that makes it impossible for excellent people to rise up and above, and in the name of social fairness, this is what Obama desires, and that's not me projecting, it's merely stepping back from the historical moment of "the first Black President" and actually examining the things the man has said, things a lot of moderate and centrists of both parties thought were just campaign rhetoric, but no matter how bad the financial situation, no matter what the reality, he remains steadfastly on course with his agenda of social spending under the guise of "fairness."

John McCain, for all his faults (and I'm the guy who's been calling him Cap'n Queeg FOR YEARS, I came out very early on in the process and took the stand that I would vote for him under no circumstance [search=Firespin for examples]), would not be behaving thusly so and the boomers would not have panicked nor would the people of means. I hope you guys are not just trying to be politically correct and make your message more palatable to the Obama voters, a mental quid pro quo, "look, if I admit McCain would have been a disaster, can you not admit Obama is a disaster?" because the answer is no, he's too big to fail in their eyes, so he can't and he won't, no matter how dire the straights.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, as long as there is one Republican standing, or one Limbaugh, there is somebody to take the blame for failure. Democrats don't make mistakes because they are the people who care and have the right intentions and because they are right, someone who differs, by definition, must be wrong, and right only does good; wrong only does bad.

No reply required, just getting it off my chest before I go home for a while.

 

[Ishmael]

You made an interesting point there bro concerning the European social democracies. I don't know if anyone's noticed or not, but they're in even worse shape than we are right now. For years they've been parasitic to the US economic engine. The host is really sick now and has a brain that has decided that the solution to the problem is the medical equivalent of 'bleeding the patient.'

We'll be lucky to get out of this without a major war.

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Well thugs (can I use that word?) will run over and kick you in the head once you go down...




But fetal stem cell research will save us! Thank you President Obama!




There is justice in this world, after all, please, kick us again!



Don't let Science stop you!

 

[Byron In Exile]

Or slower.

That works, too.

Slower works.

Where you sound out the words.

That's when you realize that each word means a thing, and the stream isn't just a bunch of static.

When I hook up the cable, that's when I realize that MSLSD and Fox are feeding people static. It's as if they're trying to keep them confused and off-balance.

Not a conspiracy theory, just an observation.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Obama on the other hand is a dangerous fool.

He looks like a complete pawn so far.

I frankly expected more. More fool me.

He's got the White House for four years, speaking engagements after that, no worries. Wall Street can go to hell, for all he cares. People's 401k's? He doesn't care about that either. He's set. He just has to make encouraging speeches that mean nothing. Good for him. He's done well. Meanwhile, America burns.

 

[Byron In Exile]

It will sound like a good idea to the addict.

It's the only thing.

The only remedy for irresponsible lending is more irresponsible lending.

You know that, right?

 

[Byron In Exile]

Which is it, miles? You describe how the rich get wealthy and then you say there is no one, single prototype of "the rich".

Being hypocritical and stupid is a bad combination.

Seems to work for some people.

 

[Byron In Exile]

You and Ish keep acting like McCain would be powerless, that the thing would have played out no matter what, the thing has a smell of ineviability, not to put words in your mouth, but...,

McCain didn't yearn to be a transformational President, Obama did. McCain didn't tell the rich, I'm going to raise your taxes, in fact, he probably would have assured them that he was going to make the past tax cuts permanent instead of implying that he would allow them to expire. The Presidency is the most powerful bully pulpit in the world, and I don't think McCain would have used it to send the message, don't be afraid of rough financial seas, PANIC! In short, I think Obama has thrown kerosine on the fire because panic allows him to get by with more while he's popular; he is more concerned with getting the money back that he deems was stolen from the little people by the big people than he is in stewarding the whole of the national economy, because that would mean allowing the rich to continue to steal.

For years we have smugly laughed at the European "Social Democracies" for their nagging unemployment and lack of innovation, but we now have adopted their model. DeTouqueville wrote about how we would vote ourselves into a system of complex rules that makes it impossible for excellent people to rise up and above, and in the name of social fairness, this is what Obama desires, and that's not me projecting, it's merely stepping back from the historical moment of "the first Black President" and actually examining the things the man has said, things a lot of moderate and centrists of both parties thought were just campaign rhetoric, but no matter how bad the financial situation, no matter what the reality, he remains steadfastly on course with his agenda of social spending under the guise of "fairness."

John McCain, for all his faults (and I'm the guy who's been calling him Cap'n Queeg FOR YEARS, I came out very early on in the process and took the stand that I would vote for him under no circumstance [search=Firespin for examples]), would not be behaving thusly so and the boomers would not have panicked nor would the people of means. I hope you guys are not just trying to be politically correct and make your message more palatable to the Obama voters, a mental quid pro quo, "look, if I admit McCain would have been a disaster, can you not admit Obama is a disaster?" because the answer is no, he's too big to fail in their eyes, so he can't and he won't, no matter how dire the straights.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, as long as there is one Republican standing, or one Limbaugh, there is somebody to take the blame for failure. Democrats don't make mistakes because they are the people who care and have the right intentions and because they are right, someone who differs, by definition, must be wrong, and right only does good; wrong only does bad.

No reply required, just getting it off my chest before I go home for a while.

Thanks for writing that.

I understand now.

Liberty is the only way.

 

[Acanthus]

You made an interesting point there bro concerning the European social democracies. I don't know if anyone's noticed or not, but they're in even worse shape than we are right now. For years they've been parasitic to the US economic engine. The host is really sick now and has a brain that has decided that the solution to the problem is the medical equivalent of 'bleeding the patient.'

We'll be lucky to get out of this without a major war.

Ishmael

They are in bad shape because AIG allowed them to circiumvent their capital restrictions through the derivatives market.

 

[Byron In Exile]

They are in bad shape because AIG allowed them to circiumvent their capital restrictions through the derivatives market.

So the solution is what?

Besides throw money at them.

 

[Ishmael]

So the solution is what?

Besides throw money at them.

He's one of those accident investigators out on the highway Byron. Arguing over what started the smashup while the victims bleed to death.

Ishmael

 

[Lavared]

The only remedy for irresponsible lending is more irresponsible lending.

You know that, right?

My blanket had a hole in it so I cut it out. Yep, I get it.

As an aside to this thread, and it really deserves its own, is the nice little earmark on the latest spending bill that will give school vouchers to D.C. residents. I love hypocrisy. It's so comforting with toast in the morning.

 

[unregistered]