The 'stimulus' isn't going to work, and why.

[Byron In Exile]

Hi Byron...





... bye Byron.

Be polite when you're talking to your betters.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Seriously.

I can out-debate you even drunk.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

The doppler effect is making you look red and sound whiney...

 

[Byron In Exile]

The doppler effect is making you look red and sound whiney...

Great. Let's debate whether borrowring money is the solution to having borrowed too much money.

After that we'll talk about the doppler effect, you egotistical idiot.

 

[Byron In Exile]

It's no wonder I don't post here much, I only get to talk with idiots like you or Turd Fergeson.

Read a book or something.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Looking in my rear-view mirror...
Looking in my rear-view mirror...
I can make it all diss-dissappear,
Have no fear!



I like pleasure spiked with pain and Music is my aeroplane!
In my aeroplane...

 

[Ishmael]

Well, whaddaya know, it's in this thread too now...

I said it from the inception, no Democrat corruption with the ACORN housing market and in the Freddie-Fannie campaign contribution piggy banks managed by rich Democrat bankers (and no Sarbanes-Oxley [sp? why can't they have normal names?] so my neighbor's firesale doesn't kill me...), no devastating world-wide collapse.

Until we can all agree on this point, nobody with "skin in the game" is going to believe the Democrats can "fix" the problem in a manner that isn't corrupted...

The "Fix" is in...

From rich man to Democrat
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=613119

They're voting with their wallets and the verdict for Obama isn't looking very positive.

The posters that are supporting Obama blow this whole thing off as just the 'fat cats' are getting out of the market. They don't seem to understand that over 50% of Americans are (were) vested in the market. Over 150 million, the overwhelming majority of whom are (were) John and Mary Lunchbuckets. Obama is in the process of destroying all of their hopes and dreams. He will very likely go down in history as the most hated US president ever.

And you are correct, Obama can no longer blame it on Bush. He took ownership of this economy when he signed that abortion of a 'bailout' package. The media that refused to vette him properly, and kissed his ass all the way to the white house are going to turn on him soon enough. As soon as they figure out that they made themselves irrevelant and the job attrition really begins to winnow their numbers. Afterall, when people aren't investing in companies that are intrinsically solid, why in the world would they invest in money sinks like the New York Times or Washington Post? There is a poetic justice in their being the instrument of their own destruction.

It will be interesting to see how the worm turns when these same posters begin to understand that there is no job waiting for them out there. That it will be a decade before the economy turns around and that is an optomistic number. If this profligate frittering away of the national treasure continues it will be far longer than a mere decade.

They come in here and pontificate about the causes, trying to afix blame. None of which contributes to the cure in anyway whatsoever. Like a group of accident investigators that stand around arguing about exactly who caused the 70 car pileup on the freeway while the victims lay on the ground and bleed to death. Worse yet, they begin to redesign the freeway. A freeway that was so covered with signage it was a wonder that the drivers could find the road to begin with. All in all it's an excersize in mental masturbation.

I wish that I could say that I feel sorry for them, but I don't. I want them to suffer and suffer greatly. Some lessons should be harsh.

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

It's no wonder I don't post here much, I only get to talk with idiots like you or Turd Fergeson.

Read a book or something.

*Atlas Shrug*


Does "The Virtue of Selfishness" float your ark there Sparky?

 

[Byron In Exile]

*Atlas Shrug*


Does "The Virtue of Selfishness" float your ark there Sparky?

Sort-of.

Why do you ask?

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Great post, bro, I'll leave Byron to you, he's indicated that he needs a dose of smart this morning.





Me, I already said all I can say so I wax lyrical...

 

[Byron In Exile]

They're voting with their wallets and the verdict for Obama isn't looking very positive.

The posters that are supporting Obama blow this whole thing off as just the 'fat cats' are getting out of the market. They don't seem to understand that over 50% of Americans are (were) vested in the market. Over 150 million, the overwhelming majority of whom are (were) John and Mary Lunchbuckets. Obama is in the process of destroying all of their hopes and dreams. He will very likely go down in history as the most hated US president ever.

And you are correct, Obama can no longer blame it on Bush. He took ownership of this economy when he signed that abortion of a 'bailout' package. The media that refused to vette him properly, and kissed his ass all the way to the white house are going to turn on him soon enough. As soon as they figure out that they made themselves irrevelant and the job attrition really begins to winnow their numbers. Afterall, when people aren't investing in companies that are intrinsically solid, why in the world would they invest in money sinks like the New York Times or Washington Post? There is a poetic justice in their being the instrument of their own destruction.

It will be interesting to see how the worm turns when these same posters begin to understand that there is no job waiting for them out there. That it will be a decade before the economy turns around and that is an optomistic number. If this profligate frittering away of the national treasure continues it will be far longer than a mere decade.

They come in here and pontificate about the causes, trying to afix blame. None of which contributes to the cure in anyway whatsoever. Like a group of accident investigators that stand around arguing about exactly who caused the 70 car pileup on the freeway while the victims lay on the ground and bleed to death. Worse yet, they begin to redesign the freeway. A freeway that was so covered with signage it was a wonder that the drivers could find the road to begin with. All in all it's an excersize in mental masturbation.

I wish that I could say that I feel sorry for them, but I don't. I want them to suffer and suffer greatly. Some lessons should be harsh.

This whole meltdown so started under Clinton.

If auditors could be brought in... but of course they can't.

Ishmael: if you've ever listened to anything I've said...

The government is no longer in control of the system.

That system is in control of the government.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Great post, bro, I'll leave Byron to you, he's indicated that he needs a dose of smart this morning.





Me, I already said all I can say so I wax lyrical...

Yeah, leave the serious stuff to us.

You just play the clown, right?

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Ahm just whistlin' Dixie...

 

[Byron In Exile]

The "stimulus" won't work because it's borne out of a Lewis Carrol novel called "Alice in Wonderland."

Obama probably read it in his youth, and now has fantasies about it.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Ahm just whistlin' Dixie...

You rarely know what you're talking about.

But, I must say, I value those times when you do, rare as they are.

 

[Ishmael]

This whole meltdown so started under Clinton.

If auditors could be brought in... but of course they can't.

Ishmael: if you've ever listened to anything I've said...

The government is no longer in control of the system.

That system is in control of the government.

Byron, if you've been listening to me then you'll understand that it just doesn't matter anymore. And that in the end we are both pointing out the same basic fact. Following from your argument, the system is in charge of the government, we are left with the inescapable fact that it was the government, by proxy, that caused this meltdown. Taking that to the next logical step, why would anyone in their right mind expect the government to be the solution to the problem?

Going back to my very first post in this thread I stated, up front, that McCain didn't/doesn't have the answers either. The only difference being that McCain MIGHT have taken steps that would prevent the situation from getting any worse than it's going to. And I believe that he would have had a tad more positive message for the citizens. But the damage was done back in Sept. and the money isn't coming back, and this is just going to have run it's course.

Until such time as people realize that government does not create wealth, never has and never will, this wholesale raid on the treasury will continue.

Ishmael

 

[Byron In Exile]

Obama criticized Bush...

for spending over $400 billion in a year, and the immediately spent $780 billion in four weeks?

What's the definition of insanity?

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

At the very least, his message about his country would not have been a negative message.







That, as much as anything, has destroyed confidence as the skin in the game realized, "HOLY MERD! This Democrat actually BELIEVES the usual rhetoric!"

 

[Byron In Exile]

Byron, if you've been listening to me then you'll understand that it just doesn't matter anymore. And that in the end we are both pointing out the same basic fact. Following from your argument, the system is in charge of the government, we are left with the inescapable fact that it was the government, by proxy, that caused this meltdown. Taking that to the next logical step, why would anyone in their right mind expect the government to be the solution to the problem?

Going back to my very first post in this thread I stated, up front, that McCain didn't/doesn't have the answers either. The only difference being that McCain MIGHT .

Until such time as people realize that government does not create wealth, never has and never will, this wholesale raid on the treasury will continue... No, McCain would have done the same thing as Obama. Both parties are captured by an idealogy that is only interested in power. You can look at Bush's last years and see it. Both parties are in their pocket.

And, they care nothing for the people of America.

Only for themselves.

You voted for them: deal with it.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

In conclusion:

Upshot: Investors don't have to put their money in any particular company's stock, or in stocks at all -- and the wholesale flight of investors from bank stocks has put almost the entire weight of recapitalizing the financial sector on the taxpayer.

As Mr. Lampert puts it, "These companies need to be investable. Citigroup survives as a company but it's not investable. Running a company to create value -- the government doesn't have any notion of that."

He adds that he means investors won't put up money if they don't have clear rules and assurance that regulators won't unreasonably damage their investment, and that boards won't abandon their basic duty to stockholders. And you only need to see the deepening hole that AIG has become to appreciate his point that government control, however well intentioned, is unlikely to do a better job of extracting value from an asset than properly incentivized private management.

With Fannie and Freddie in particular, any policy end Washington might have sought, including breaking them up, would have been entirely doable with shareholders still in charge.

A lesson here is that confidence in a crisis is indivisible. No moral calculus yields the result that bank equity investors are bad and must be punished for the credit bubble while creditors are innocent and must be protected -- though that haphazard political conceit seems recurrently to have guided policy. The consequences have been simply terrible. Nothing was inevitable about the collapse of equity values that has made the banking problem so much more difficult.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123612486521823765.html

 

[Byron In Exile]

Going back to my very first post in this thread I stated, up front, that McCain didn't/doesn't have the answers either. The only difference being that McCain MIGHT have taken steps that would prevent the situation from getting any worse than it's going to. And I believe that he would have had a tad more positive message for the citizens. But the damage was done back in Sept. and the money isn't coming back, and this is just going to have run it's course.

No. McCain was a tool who probably realizes that now.

Despite his service to our country, he was a fool.

That's just one opinion: but I will always respect him.

But he would have done the same things Obama is doing.

Who's President doesn't really matter. There are powers behind the throne.

 

[Byron In Exile]

At the very least, his message about his country would not have been a negative message.


That, as much as anything, has destroyed confidence as the skin in the game realized, "HOLY MERD! This Democrat actually BELIEVES the usual rhetoric!"

You should read more.

 

[Saint Peter]

You should read more.

Or slower.

 

[Ishmael]

for spending over $400 billion in a year, and the immediately spent $780 billion in four weeks?

What's the definition of insanity?

Before it's all over it's going to be $3 trillion Byron, and that's not counting in all of the long term indebtedness that he's porking up those bills with.

Ishmael

 

[unregistered]