The soldier did no such thing.

Pagliacci

Crane Style
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Posts
2,189
"It's the soldier, not the reporter, who gave us our freedom of the press.

It's the soldier, not the poet, who gave us our freedom of speech.

It's the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gave us our freedom to demonstrate.

It's the soldier, who salutes the flag, who serves others with respect for the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."

The above is from a poem that has been making the rounds here at Lit and it is a good one.The only problem I have with it are these lines that really stick in my craw.

The reason is simply that it doesn't hold true.
The soldier doesn't give anything,his job is to defend his country from outside aggression and serve the elected government.He has the choice to disobey unlawful orders and to resign from the forces if he feels that he can't defend the values of his country as enacted by the government.

If he and his comrades does take action against his own government then it's a coup d'etat,or at least an attempted one.

The ones who gave us all of the above is the citizen not the soldier.
As stated the soldier merely governs.

In ending I can only say that I'm heartened at all the support people here give members of the armed forces,wheter currently serving or former members.
 
Pagliacci said:


The ones who gave us all of the above is the citizen not the soldier.
As stated the soldier merely governs.

The soldier acts upon orders. No soldier governs. Politicians do that.
 
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." (Don't remember who said it, Thomas Jefferson I believe).

Without the solider to guard the lifestyle(s) we hold dear, the citizens would live in anarchy.
 
Re: Re: The soldier did no such thing.

HeavyStick said:
The soldier acts upon orders. No soldier governs. Politicians do that.

My bad you're correct.I did the same mistake as I claimed the poet did.

Is that the EU flag I see in your AV by any chance ?
 
Re: Re: Re: The soldier did no such thing.

Pagliacci said:
My bad you're correct.I did the same mistake as I claimed the poet did.

Is that the EU flag I see in your AV by any chance ?


yeah, but you have to think of what Lit member, my AV is portraying.
 
Pagliacci said:
[B\]

.He has the choice to disobey unlawful orders and to resign from the forces if he feels that he can't defend the values of his country as enacted by the government. [/B]

He can choose to resign?

"Um, excuse me Captain. When the firefight lets up I'm turning in my two weeks notice."

I don't think so.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
soldiers train for war but pray for peace....politicians never hesitate to ask another to die for them!
 
I think you missed the entire point of that quote. The intended meaning is that if the soldier hadn't done (or doesn't do) their job then the body of citizens may very well not have the option of enacting those freedoms.
 
Mona said:
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." (Don't remember who said it, Thomas Jefferson I believe).

Without the solider to guard the lifestyle(s) we hold dear, the citizens would live in anarchy.

Incorrect in my mind.The ones that uphold law and order are the police.Not the soldier.
 
Re: Re: The soldier did no such thing.

Hell yes I double posted.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: The soldier did no such thing.

HeavyStick said:
yeah, but you have to think of what Lit member, my AV is portraying.

I know which one you're thinking of.The bloodshot eyes are a dead give away :D
 
Re: Re: The soldier did no such thing.

miles said:
He can choose to resign?

"Um, excuse me Lt. When the firefight lets up I need to give my two weeks notice."

I don't think so.

He has that choice.Any soldier can at any time simply throw off his uniform or throw his weapon away.Or go to his superior officer and say his peace.

He'll have to suffer the consequences (sp?) but he has that option.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The soldier did no such thing.

Pagliacci said:
I know which one you're thinking of.The bloodshot eyes are a dead give away :D

I wish it had some puke on his shoes, or some piss running down his leg.
 
christophe said:
soldiers train for war but pray for peace....politicians never hesitate to ask another to die for them!

Some politicians even come to warzones to officialy "Scope things out" and promptly go touristing instead.
 
ma_guy said:
I think you missed the entire point of that quote. The intended meaning is that if the soldier hadn't done (or doesn't do) their job then the body of citizens may very well not have the option of enacting those freedoms.

Didn't see the poem that way,but after re reading it I see your point and from that context I agree.
 
Re: Re: Re: The soldier did no such thing.

Pagliacci said:
He has that choice.Any soldier can at any time simply throw off his uniform or throw his weapon away.Or go to his superior officer and say his peace.

He'll have to suffer the consequences (sp?) but he has that option.

That isn't what you said. Besides, laying down your weapon in combat is not resigning.
 
Pagliacci said:
Some politicians even come to warzones to officialy "Scope things out" and promptly go touristing instead.
very true...they look good for the cameras and there constituents...then they promptly leave!
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The soldier did no such thing.

HeavyStick said:
I wish it had some puke on his shoes, or some piss running down his leg.

No need to overdo things,it's good as it is :D
 
Officers can resign. (They can also be called back) Enlisted can decide not to reenlist. (They can also be involuntarily held)
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: The soldier did no such thing.

miles said:
That isn't what you said. Besides, laying down your weapon in combat is not resigning.

Your "in the middle of a firefight" scenario skewes things a bit to the extreme don't you think ?

But what you're saying to me is that there is no way to resign as a soldier.
Once in you're the slave of the State ?

That sounds like no army I've heard of.
 
ma_guy said:
I think you missed the entire point of that quote. The intended meaning is that if the soldier hadn't done (or doesn't do) their job then the body of citizens may very well not have the option of enacting those freedoms.


Ma_guy has it right. By saying the soldier "gave" us these rights, the author is saying that the soldier is called on to defend the nation, thus guaranteeing these rights, or allowing us to enjoy these rights.

It doesn't mean that soldiers literally give us rights.

Because...that would be silly.
 
What prevents invasion? The soldier.
What prevents us from becoming ussr? The soldier.
What prevented us from becoming Nazis? The soldier.


I think you're missing the point as well, Pag. These rights we enjoy were won by soldiers who fought the British, kept by those that fought the French and the Mexicans, and still kept by those who served during the Cold War, and still kept by those who serve today.

If we did not have the might to secure our people and our borders, would we have those rights? Probably not. You may refer to other countries that fall to the whims of the invading government du jour. This is what that poem is supposed to mean. There are wolves out there, and if you think not, then take a walk by yourself in downtown Damascus. These wolves, if it were not for the soldier and other military members, would bring this nation down and those rights would no longer be a part of our daily life.
 
ma_guy said:
I think you missed the entire point of that quote. The intended meaning is that if the soldier hadn't done (or doesn't do) their job then the body of citizens may very well not have the option of enacting those freedoms.

Here Here! Amen ;)

If there were no soldiers in WW2 we'd all be talking german or japanese right now and if we tried to throw our weight around about our freedoms, we'd be shot.
There would be no freedoms for us to be talking about.
Heck, Lit wouldn't even be here.
 
HeavyStick said:
Officers can resign. (They can also be called back) Enlisted can decide not to reenlist. (They can also be involuntarily held)

So you're telling me that in the US armed forces there's no such thing as a discharge unless you foul yourself out ?
 
Pagliacci said:
So you're telling me that in the US armed forces there's no such thing as a discharge unless you foul yourself out ?

My post is pretty clear.

Foul yourself out? You mean medically or go to Sweden and teach girls soccer like Sly Stallone did?
 
Back
Top