The Sadly Misdirected War Against Terrorism

[weed]

It is with regret I see our military expenses escalate as we prepare to attack our enemies abroad in the name of a War Against Terrorism.

As if taking control of this one countried amidst the hotbed of violent countries is going to change the threat of terrorist attack against us.

Meanwhile planning for smallpox vaccinations is pushed down from above with questionable importance that this irradicated disease would even be the biological weapon of the terrorists choice and yet there is no adequate funding for it.

States have recieved some funding for preparedness against terrorism but it is woefully short of dealing with the cost of the smallpox vaccination plans states are now getting ready to implement with the vaccinations of the first response teams.

The impact of this plan seems to be ignored amongst all the zealousness for war abroad.

Per the American Red Cross there is potential for decreased blood supply as vaccine recipients cannot donate blood for several weeks after recieving the vaccine. And lets not forget that those first responders and other health care workers who are in line to get vaccinated first are some of our most faithful donors.

Other costs will develop as a result: treatment of side effectsand complications associated with skin disease as a result, lost work hours, potential side effects to family members and, as the plans progress, the costs of setting up vaccination clinics.

Let's not forget also that initially these are voluntary vaccinations and therefore not covered under the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

If there is actually an outbreak of smallpox, emergency rooms and clinics will be swamped and helpless. (The vaccine takes five days to be effective, anyway.)

So while we prepare for this "War of Terrorism" with missiles and soldiers we leave our homeland ill prepared for this supposedly real threat.

Our healthcare system will crash if we truly have bio-terrorism here, with us as ill-prepared as ever. It will bog us down before any virus or chemical is ever released just with the ill-planning alone.

And this is just smallpox...one potential amongst many.

We should have learned that from our forgotten Anthrax attacks. Labs still have samples for testing they haven't been able to get after 7 months.

So I ask.....what is the point of preparing for war abroad when we are not even prepared at home?

We are sadly misdirected.

 

[Guest]

 

[weed]

Pssst....I got a secret for you, honey.....we can't get ALL the Arabs.

Hell, we can't even get you.

 

[Guest]

 

[weed]

All it takes is one, suicidally infected....walking around New York City or DisneyLand.....

 

[Guest]

 

[weed]

And so it continues.....


As we build up our troops and ready ourselves for military action we have 5 men slip in through our back door just a few days ago....not to mention any others we don't know about.

These men could be ticking time bombs.....already infected with smallpox. Afterall, this must be a risk if we are ready to implement this plan for innoculation that neither the healthcare system or the states are prepared for.

Yet the real threat is from one country. Of course, N. Korea is ok because we know they have "nuculear" weapons but since we don't know for sure about Iraq......what kind of sense is that?

And that threat is economic according to Bush. So our economy can not handle an attack from Saddam. So we must spend much in manpower and resources to protect ourselves abroad (not within our borders?).

And if the truth be told in White House whispers we are not prepared to spread ourselves so thin on two fronts.

Yet strikers in Venezuela continue virtually unspoken of though we'll now see oil prices rising as a result. Oil we'll be needing to fight a war, eh.

OPEC says they'll help but it takes months to feel that help if it happens.




Tunnel vision.

 

[SINthysist]

Reality 2003 Wake-up Call
John L. Perry
Thursday, Dec. 26, 2002

The president warned this country is at war with terror. He was right. He said it would be long and difficult. He was right again.
It didn’t register with everyone, not the full seriousness and depth of what George W. Bush was telling the American people.

Now, going into the new year of 2003, almost 16 months after the Eleventh of September horrors, the terrible truth is beginning to sink in:


Many Americans may have thought the American War on Terror would be over in a few bursts of daisy-cutter and other precision bombs pinpointed on some select caves in the wilds of Afghanistan – wherever that was supposed to be.
It didn’t quite turn out that way.

Osama bin Laden is purported to be still alive and kicking – wherever that’s supposed to be.

Without doubt his al-Qaeda traveling terrorist conglomerate has metastasized to other parts of the planet, there to continue its War of Terror on America by other means – whatever that’s supposed to mean.

Both the United States and al-Qaeda have only started to finish what bin Laden started.


Many Americans may have thought the peril of Iraq equipped with weapons of mass destruction under the auspices of Saddam Hussein could be readily snuffed out by American military might in time for the first anniversary of the Eleventh of September.
It didn’t quite turn out that way.

It is taking months and months, not weeks and weeks, to cobble together enough shaky support within the United Nations and ramp up adequate military resources to launch a successful war with Iraq.


Many Americans may have thought Bush was engaging in aggressive alliteration when he warned of the long-range menace of the Axis of Evil – Iraq, Iran and North Korea.
Those prepared to bet the ranch on the interminable duration of a phony-peace status quo abused Bush as trying to frighten the world into submission to a detestable Pax Americana.

It didn’t quite turn out that way.

Making the horrifically stupid assessment that America is off balance, preoccupied with a lingering prosecution of its War on Terror and the months of preparation and delivery essential to mount up for the war with Iraq, the dictators in Pyongyang – if anyone remembers where that is – seized the moment to threaten the whole world with nuclear blackmail.

What Must Be, Not Just Can Be

Suddenly – as if it should not have been in everyone’s mind all along – the question is being asked: Can America wage two successful wars (actually three, counting the one with al-Qaeda) at the same time?



The answer of course is yes, not because it may be within this nation’s reach but because it must be.



There is only one entity on Earth with what it takes – in will and nuclear arsenal – to call North Korea’s bluff and get away with it. That is the United States, not the United Nations.

A Waste of Time Recriminating

Now it’s beginning to dawn on those Americans who continued to sleepwalk or puff the fumes of phony-peace pipes that what President Bush was warning about is the real thing after all. They don’t like it – as if who does?

The subversives on the radical left are quick, as is their customary kinetic reflex, to say all this is the fault of Republican Bush because it is coming to pass on his watch, ignoring the antecedents during the previous decade when their Democratic Party was at the wheel.

The truth is the dragon seeds of this nightmare were sown by ex-presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, at whose hands the American military was Lilliputianized, the intelligence community emasculated and communist North Korea pampered into the belief that it could pitch a fit and receive the rewards of permissiveness.

A lot of good it will do now to feast on those recriminations.

Yes, This Is It

This is the time for both major political parties and their leaders to face up squarely to the ugly reality: The United States is headed into years of large-scale, extremely costly and mortally threatening war of a new and horrifying kind in order to preserve its continued existence.

All Americans’ lives and fortunes and sacred honor are now at stake. This is no wake-up call. This is what the president’s wake-up call was waking this country up to right after America was attacked.

This is what George W. Bush was talking about. And he was right.

 

[SINthysist]

Tony Blair's predicted Doom and Gloom too. Posted it on one of p_p_&moans' thread...

Happy Year!

 

[weed]

lol....planted seeds?

Where did so much of Iraq's weaponry come from in the first place?

 

[weed]

I have no doubt we are gearing up for war.....but will we be so busy over there we forget to protect ourselve here?


Me sees it so.

Defense.

 

[SINthysist]

Have we made mistakes on the choice of allies? Do you sometimes have to hire killers to get the good on other killers? Do you HAVE to do slimey things in order to keep tabs on truly evil people inthe world?

Do you watch out the front window when the neighborhood bully beats the dogsnot out of your neighbor's kid?

When Europe pays off Pirates do you ante up or send the Marines?

You know my choices. Does that make me evil and mis-guided?

 

[SINthysist]

We can do more than one thing at once.

 

[weed]

I think it's funny we're only just now searching check-in luggage.



Damn.....when I think about all the ways you could get over big on this country.....

It wouldn't be so funny if a plane coming into O'Hara blew a big one. And I'm not talking head gasket.

 

[weed]

Is Disney searching backpacks and shoe bottoms yet?




We want to talk about the reality of this kind of war there will be sacrifices we all need to make right here.

 

[weed]

How quickly we forget....

Anthrax, One Year Later


Wednesday, January 1, 2003; Page A18


SINCE THE DEADLY anthrax mailings more than a year ago, the government's public focus has shifted from the crime to measures necessary to combat bioterrorism and make such attacks more difficult in the future. Press briefings concerning progress in the anthrax investigation have given way to government news conferences about rapid response networks, vaccine stockpiles, decontamination research and health worker training. Almost never mentioned is the toll of the attacks on the country: Five persons dead nationwide, including two Washington postal workers, an unprecedented disruption of Congress, interruption of the U.S. Postal Service, and fear and uncertainty throughout the region and nation. This record is all the more disturbing because more than a year after the anthrax was let loose through the mail, U.S. authorities have made no arrests.

The only result thus far seems to be a further deepening of the mystery surrounding the attack. Initial government speculation, which later hardened into an official FBI view, was that the perpetrator was a disgruntled "lone individual," probably someone domestic, with enough of a scientific background to know how to weaponize anthrax spores in a basement laboratory. That view, however, increasingly has been called into question by non-U.S.-government experts. They contend the mailings could not be the work of either an amateur or a loner given the extent of scientific knowledge, technical competence and access to equipment required to convert anthrax spores into such a deadly, finely aerosolized weapon.

Regardless of which theory holds up, the reality is that a person (or persons) committed to launching a bioterrorism attack on the nation is (are) still at large. In that connection, it is hard to know where the Justice Department stands with Steven J. Hatfill, the expert on biological warfare whom investigators have labeled a "person of interest" in the case. Several months ago the government searched Mr. Hatfill's possessions and drove him from his job -- but it still won't call him a suspect, charge him with a crime or clear him. The fact that the government, at this late date, cannot rule out foreign or state-sponsored terrorism, or theft of weaponized spores from an existing biodefense program by a disaffected U.S. scientist, leaves the public further in the dark.

It is somewhat reassuring that in the aftermath of the attacks, we have learned that the treatment of anthrax through the quick and intense use of antibiotics might make this disease less of a killer. The need to solve the crime nonetheless remains urgent. The anthrax menace that was unleashed on the nation claimed five innocent lives, adversely affected the lives of thousands more and nearly brought postal service to a halt. The brutal truth is that he -- or they -- could strike again.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61144-2002Dec31.html

 

[Lancecastor]

Re: Re: The Sadly Misdirected War Against Terrorism

Don't fight in your own grounds if you can avoid it.

In other words, don't sit back and wait for the arabs to come ashore.

Seems to me "the arabs" came ashore a long time ago and went to US universities, flight schools, truck driving schools, taxi companies...

The US has been under terrorist attack since at least the first bombing of the WTC.

It reminds me of Vietnam...small numbers of enemy using jungle warware to outwit the larger and slower USA.

Except this time the jungles are US cities.

In this respect, the defensive elements spoken of by Weed are just as essential as the foreign offensives.

Lance

 

[Ishmael]

I don't know what you're trying to say here weed.

Live Small Pox was/is stored at two locations. CDC Atlanta, and an unspecified location in Russia. This was as agreed upon by covenant with the United Nations as part of the program to irradicated the disease. This program also made provisions for the live disease to be made available to other national laboratories that met certain criteria. Again, as part of the UN convenant. Iraq built a lab that met the criteria and that's how they recieved the live disease.

The United States dealt with Small Pox vaccinations for years and I have no doubt that we can do so once more.

Adressing the issue of bio-terrorism, what has that to do with any military operation against Iraq? We are no more or less vulnerable than we were before. I also think that you underestimate our response capabilities. Certain facilities will be overwhelmed to be sure, but unless the attack is extraoridnarily well planned and executed the results will be far less severe than one might think. The anthrax attacks of a year ago were a failure for the most part. They created more panic than was necessary and that was fueled by the media.

Bio-terrorism is far more effective as a panic inducing measure than it is in the actuallity of causing casualties. We learned a lot in the last great epidemic, the "Spanish Flu" of 1***/18, and have gotten even better since. Large metropolitan areas would be the most affected but even there the infection rates can be contained with a little common sense. And contained quickly.

Ishmael

 

[weed]

I don't know what you're trying to say here weed.

Live Small Pox was/is stored at two locations. CDC Atlanta, and an unspecified location in Russia. This was as agreed upon by covenant with the United Nations as part of the program to irradicated the disease. This program also made provisions for the live disease to be made available to other national laboratories that met certain criteria. Again, as part of the UN convenant. Iraq built a lab that met the criteria and that's how they recieved the live disease.

The United States dealt with Small Pox vaccinations for years and I have no doubt that we can do so once more.

Adressing the issue of bio-terrorism, what has that to do with any military operation against Iraq? We are no more or less vulnerable than we were before. I also think that you underestimate our response capabilities. Certain facilities will be overwhelmed to be sure, but unless the attack is extraoridnarily well planned and executed the results will be far less severe than one might think. The anthrax attacks of a year ago were a failure for the most part. They created more panic than was necessary and that was fueled by the media.

Bio-terrorism is far more effective as a panic inducing measure than it is in the actuallity of causing casualties. We learned a lot in the last great epidemic, the "Spanish Flu" of 1***/18, and have gotten even better since. Large metropolitan areas would be the most affected but even there the infection rates can be contained with a little common sense. And contained quickly.

Ishmael

The states and the healthcare system will deal with the smallpox innoculation plans about to be put into action, yes, but there will be costs both economical and in human terms that are not being taken into consideration. The American Nurses Association and Red Cross has pointed out many of these.....there listed in my original post.

I personally am not as scared of smallpox as the taxing of the system by such a plan. To me the whole smallpox issue is more pro-war propaganda. As you point out there are other threats as well and it shouldn't be about innoculating against one disease but being prepared for any.

You say any infection can be contained? Again, look at the havoc a handful of anthrax cases caused in this country before it was deemed under control.

Havoc that creates cost, again, both economical and in human terms (fear, suffering).

So while we spend so much energy directed at Iraq we are leaving many holes by which the terrorists we are supposedly at war with to do their deeds.

Not only do we undoubtedly have sleepers already existing in this country, or newly recruited and waiting to be released from prison, but they're slipping in across our border.

Are our water supplies being protected?

Are our food supplies being protected?

When it comes down to it it only took a handful of men to carry out the deeds of 9/11. Deeds that took place within this land, within our borders.

Deeds that may have had the support of Hussein, or not, but most assuredly the support of terrorist spread out over the globe, not just Iraq.

 

[Lost Cause]

Homeland Defense...

Isn't a government program, it starts with the individual. How many people are in your home, how much water do you store/rotate, and do you have medical supplies? It's really no different than an earthquake or tornado kit that most people have. If you think your family doesn't need immunizations, don't get them! Go to the homeland defense website, check CDC websites, and rationally assess the real threat. Be concerned, but not afraid.

 

[weed]

Re: Homeland Defense...

Isn't a government program, it starts with the individual. How many people are in your home, how much water do you store/rotate, and do you have medical supplies? It's really no different than an earthquake or tornado kit that most people have. If you think your family doesn't need immunizations, don't get them! Go to the homeland defense website, check CDC websites, and rationally assess the real threat. Be concerned, but not afraid.

You're right to a certain extent it is our individual responsibility.

But I can't stop the terrorist at the border. I can't stop the terrorist from bringing in bombs or or other threats (or making them here).

That's what national defense is about, isn't it? And my point is that it's so busy elsewhere we are not as protected as we should be.

Guess we'll see.

Sooner or later.

 

[Ishmael]

The states and the healthcare system will deal with the smallpox innoculation plans about to be put into action, yes, but there will be costs both economical and in human terms that are not being taken into consideration. The American Nurses Association and Red Cross has pointed out many of these.....there listed in my original post.

I personally am not as scared of smallpox as the taxing of the system by such a plan. To me the whole smallpox issue is more pro-war propaganda. As you point out there are other threats as well and it shouldn't be about innoculating against one disease but being prepared for any.

You say any infection can be contained? Again, look at the havoc a handful of anthrax cases caused in this country before it was deemed under control.

Havoc that creates cost, again, both economical and in human terms (fear, suffering).

So while we spend so much energy directed at Iraq we are leaving many holes by which the terrorists we are supposedly at war with to do their deeds.

Not only do we undoubtedly have sleepers already existing in this country, or newly recruited and waiting to be released from prison, but they're slipping in across our border.

Are our water supplies being protected?

Are our food supplies being protected?

When it comes down to it it only took a handful of men to carry out the deeds of 9/11. Deeds that took place within this land, within our borders.

Deeds that may have had the support of Hussein, or not, but most assuredly the support of terrorist spread out over the globe, not just Iraq.

There is no 100% safe vaccine. Never was. Each has it's own set of contraindictaions. So we should use that fact to turn it into a political issue. Fine, don't want the innoculation, don't get the innoculation. I could care less.

The institution of widespread bio-terrorism would require far more planning and execution. Timing is everything. As soon as the first case of any such pathogen was reported all the of pre-planned contingencies would be implemented.

The anthrax scare was more an example of media exploitation than it was an example of effective bio-terrorism. Costly, of course it was. Needlessly so. Not in the actual cleanup, but in the results of the associated panic.

There are many points that a contagion might be initiated. But there are a limited number of pathogens that are useful for each of the selected modes of infection. Modern water treatment will kill most of the pathogens on the spot. Leaving a very limited number of pathogens to choose from.

Viable air transmissives (ie. pnuemonic plague) are the most dangerous from the standpoint of a produced epidemic. But in most cases they are also the most fragile of the pathogens as well. The chain of contagion is easily broken with a little common sense. One of the most effective in this class would be a modified form of the "Spanish Flu". Mainly because to this day we haven't a clue as to what caused it. But any pathogen that virulent would quickly lead to a pandemic and the perpetrator would become his own victim as well.

The numbers of fudiciary infections required to sustain a long running epidemic are huge. 9/11 was trivial compared to the logistics required for what you have suggested.

There have been several works of fiction dealing with this scenario. Two of the best that I've read are Tom Clancy's, "Executive Orders", and Frank Herbert's, "White Plague". Herberts book is quite old and he was one of the first to deal with the issue in print.

Ishmael

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

I'd rather be safe.

 

[weed]

There is no 100% safe vaccine. Never was. Each has it's own set of contraindictaions. So we should use that fact to turn it into a political issue. Fine, don't want the innoculation, don't get the innoculation. I could care less.

The institution of widespread bio-terrorism would require far more planning and execution. Timing is everything. As soon as the first case of any such pathogen was reported all the of pre-planned contingencies would be implemented.

The anthrax scare was more an example of media exploitation than it was an example of effective bio-terrorism. Costly, of course it was. Needlessly so. Not in the actual cleanup, but in the results of the associated panic.

There are many points that a contagion might be initiated. But there are a limited number of pathogens that are useful for each of the selected modes of infection. Modern water treatment will kill most of the pathogens on the spot. Leaving a very limited number of pathogens to choose from.

Viable air transmissives (ie. pnuemonic plague) are the most dangerous from the standpoint of a produced epidemic. But in most cases they are also the most fragile of the pathogens as well. The chain of contagion is easily broken with a little common sense. One of the most effective in this class would be a modified form of the "Spanish Flu". Mainly because to this day we haven't a clue as to what caused it. But any pathogen that virulent would quickly lead to a pandemic and the perpetrator would become his own victim as well.

The numbers of fudiciary infections required to sustain a long running epidemic are huge. 9/11 was trivial compared to the logistics required for what you have suggested.

There have been several works of fiction dealing with this scenario. Two of the best that I've read are Tom Clancy's, "Executive Orders", and Frank Herbert's, "White Plague". Herberts book is quite old and he was one of the first to deal with the issue in print.

Ishmael

I have to agree with most of your points. The thing about the smallpox innoculation is that these costs are not being figured into the planning. The plans address who gets it first but not the impact of the program itself.


And if biochem. terrorism is not such a threat, why bother?

And yes, the panic of the people and the disabling effect that can have is part of terrorism, as Anthrax showed us.

I don't mean to suggest that's the only threat we are ill-prepared for. I'd like to know that we're safe from events such as 9/11 and the anthrax scare before we spend our efforts and resources attacking one country, no matter how repulsive we may find it.

And I point out again, they're slipping in our back door. Here they can't even get the right picture of the man they want up!!!

 

[weed]

I'd rather be safe.

Safe here or there?