The Real Ship of Fools

[Sparky Kronkite]

Reality…. The acceptance of reality.

If what we experience in our day to day lives, provided of course that we are healthy in body and mind - and therefore cognizant of our surroundings…. If what we experience - is in fact "real." Then "that reality" is in fact - wrong.

Wrong in the fact that "life," - our lives - are not "perfect." You see, perfection is reality - imperfection is not.

Imperfection merely represents "an attempt" at perfection - an attempt at reality.

When one accepts "things as they are" - when one accepts an imperfect reality - one relinquishes oneself to failure.

In our lives today - most of the positive elements of our human existence, our human experience are forsaken for the negative characteristics of money.

Sure, yes of course - there are many positive things about life - many positive things in our lives. But not enough. Our lives should be "purely positive" - positive all the time, positive without exception. No negativity of any kind.

But, life is not that way - our lives, our existence is not perfect. And when one simply accepts that - that "that's the way it is, that's life, that's reality." When a person accepts reality, filtered through imperfections - then one has given up - one has failed.

A life has been wasted. We are all wrong, we are all imperfect. Even those of us who realize this "as the true reality," are wrong and imperfect.

Why? Because we don't do anything about it. We don't do enough about making the changes necessary to improve - to strive toward perfection. We all, by degree - accept our lot in life - and fail.

If we all woke up tomorrow and "did what is right," and forsake all human negativity and imperfections - the reality that exists - the reality that we as humans, have built over time would crumble. And if a few of us - working as individuals - woke up tomorrow and "went good" - if we did "only right things." We would eventually be ostracized by the majority.

As Jesus eventually was. And he got away with it for a pretty good while - but that was then - try it today. At best people would thing you a freak or weirdo.

So, we all choose to play it safe - we all, actually choose imperfection. We are all fools.

 

[CreamyLady]

I'm struggling with the idea that imperfection equals failure.

I'm also struggling with the idea of a strictly defined reality.

I will agree, however, with the Ship of Fools idea. It's an old one, and solid.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

Striving for perfection

Striving for perfection, searching for good, doing good, (regarding the quality of ones life) is not failure - not striving, or acceptance of imperfection - is failure. All by degree - the more one strives for good - the better the quality of life - and the opposite is true. To actually be perfect in this - one would have to be God. Who is perfect.

 

[poohlive]

You want to talk about god being prefect, but his world, in which he creates is inperfect? Isn't that an oxymoron. I mean if I were perfect, and I created something, I would want it just as perfect as I am.
There is one thing, actually, in which I am troubled by your theory. And that is the positive and negative influences on peoples lives. This is not true, there are no positive or negative influences on our lives, there are only influences.
The fact if we choose, or as you humbly put it, filter them to be positive or negative is how they are percieved by us. If I loose a wallet, I could say it is bad luck for me, but is it really? I have a good job, there was nothing really important in there, except for a few dollars, and a liscence. But, hey, I can pick one of those up for a few dollars, and don't I then become more careful with it next time.
Huh? A negative influence, turned positive. Nope, actually, it is an influence. Just an influence, I chose to turn it positive.
That is why society has failed, because they keep turning things to negativity. Money, power, greed, are thigns people have turned negative and in turn made society a pretty negative place to live.
Thank you for your time.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

Excellent points Poo

Excellent thoughts….

But I don't think I ever used the word "influence."

You are correct in that everything that befalls us is colored by personal perception - we individually choose - what is good for us and what is bad for us. However, making those choices, which everybody does - is not good enough - simply making those choices doesn't "make one good" - or perfect.

And yes you are right, perfection is a vacuum - and you should know too that I do not believe in God. Not the way most do.

But I of course believe in the concept of God - as I too believe in the concept of perfection.

Like I explained to CreamyLady - it's all in the "attempt" and "the degree" of the attempt - it's all in the striving.

And even the most positive of all attitudes can't deny that negativity exists in the human societal condition - disease? Yeah, you can flip everything positive - those who die, do so for some greater reason that results in some sort of greater positive - all that kind of crap - ya know - but show me.

Tell me - why does cancer even exist in the first place? Population control? Hah. Don't think so.

I don't know why cancer exists of course - nobody knows, but I do no this - it sucks and is no good for anybody.

But I know this too - if, just if - everybody were less complacent, less accepting of their lot in life and "did more good" because they were "striving for perfection."

We'd find a cure for cancer.

 

[CreamyLady]

Is God perfect? And what is perfect? Does perfection embrace imperfection as part of it?

I see God as All That Is, and Will Be; good, bad, imperfect, perfect, beautiful and ugly.

I don't mind being a crewperson on the Ship of Fools; there is always entertainment, and something to be learned. The pity of it is when someone has to shout "man overboard!" It is generally a choice of the swimmer.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

If we all woke up tomorrow and "did what is right," and forsake all human negativity and imperfections - the reality that exists - the reality that we as humans, have built over time would crumble. And if a few of us - working as individuals - woke up tomorrow and "went good" - if we did "only right things." We would eventually be ostracized by the majority.

Holy shit, Sparky, you're supposed to be the dumb fuck I give a hard time. What the hell is up with this intelligent philosophical post?

Interesting that bit about some people waking up "good" and becoming ostracized. I think that's true. In fact, I've always wondered what would happen if Christianity actually achieved its (and by "its" I mean the mission of some Christian sects, not all) goal of converting the world, and we had a planet of 6 billion people who actually aped the life of Jesus and abided by the ten commandments and turned the other cheek and let today take care of today, etc? My feeling is that the world would fall apart, or at least resemble H.G. Well's "Time Machine" vision of an apathetic and dull-witted future humanity.

As for the rest of the post, interesting, but I can't comment on any of it because you don't define your terms. Concepts like "Money", "Perfection", "Reality", "Failure", "Postiveness", et. al. are wildly subjective as hell, and your point isn't clear because everyone has markedly different definitions for each word.

Sparky, looking back you've posted more thoughtfully than you have antagonistically, and I'm going to back off being so snotty to you. I think we've had enough snot lately.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

Don't like snot -

Tastes ucky...

I've always thought that absolute perfection is unobtainable. With the possible exception of a perfect vacuum, which to my knowledge does not yet exist. And I've wanted to be Jesus (or someone just like him) for years. There are people out there emulating him, some to detailed degree - but we all think they're nuts. I think we are all nuts and refuse to perceive it.

 

[CreamyLady]

It might be a question of balance.

Absolute perfection (whatever it is) was long held as an attribute of Godhood; for a mortal to attempt it, much less achieve it, was hubris; the punishment was swift and sure.

I wonder if the more "perfect" one becomes, the less stable one becomes, having nothing to balance all that perfection. Upset of some kind will surely follow.

It's an interest problem to consider while swabbing the deck.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

What about...

Perfect balance?

 

[CreamyLady]

It would require a perfect fulcrum, wouldn't it? *smile*

I think there is an expenditure of energy in maintaining balance, constant adjustments being made. Otherwise, there is stasis, and that is death.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

And....

Bed sores before that.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Or the perfect Pendulum.

I've brought up "Foucault's Pendulum" before (spelling?) which describes a Pendulum as a "perfect" device because its swinging arc moves without regard to the rotation of the earth (once magnets eliminate the drag of gravity) alluding to an invisible point in the center of the universe upon which the Pendulum actually hangs. The action of the Pendulum has been used to prove the existance of God (or, in the case of the book, the illusion that there is a single secret explanation for all of human history. Think "X-Files" to the billionth power.)

As any writer or philospher can tell you, when it comes to any exploration of the mind or journey of the soul it is the journey itself that matters more than the destination, the questions that are more important than the answers, and a person's rate of growth that is more important than his current state of "perfection".

 

[CreamyLady]

Not necessarily. One might be standing perfectly still at a bus stop, and the bus could jump the curb.

True, one might be road pizza, but no lingering bedsores.

 

[CreamyLady]

I loved that book, DCL, and have been known to stand at the pendulum in the Griffith Park Observatory for hours, waiting for the pegs to fall in the sand . . .

 

[Cheri]

So the perfection you're talking about is the striving rather than attainment. I'd hate to think my life was a failure if I didn't look like Latitia Casta, run my home like Martha, have the grace and manners of Emily Post, raise my children like Dr. Brazilton would all the while satisfying my husband like Jordan Lee. Ok, I can live with that. Besides I'm bored when I'm not working on making my life a place where I'm challenged and encouraged (on all fronts).
Creamy and Dison, you guys are making me remember A Pilgrims Progress. Probably a bit churchy for ya, but full of wonderful allegory.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

Ah Cheri....

the perfect woman.

 

[CreamyLady]

On the contrary, Cheri. I read it every year; it is a wonderful book, and very bracing.

 

[Cheri]

Too late, I found you can't wait to become perfect, you got to go out and fall down and get up again with everybody else. - Ray Bradbury

Creamy, will you like adopt me or something? I realize a 30 year old is a bit past prime as far as normal adoptions go, but I think I'd really really like it.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

Cheri -

You are so right - waiting - for luck, for fate, for devine intervention - is wrong - it is failure. You must go out and find it, learn it, take it and reuse it.

 

[Cheri]

I am in a state of perpetual surprise here Sparky. No body ever agrees with me and you've managed to do it twice in one thread. Damn that ginkgo must be kicking in....

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

Yep -

the Viagra too.

 

[Cheri]

I don't need that, an erotic story or two is more than enough to light my fires.

 

[CreamyLady]

I'm honored, Cheri, but my 23 year old daughter might get displacement anxieties. At the moment, she's an only child.

 

[Cheri]

Damn. Well could you at least be the big sister I always dreamed of having? Unfortunatly that was the fantasy that my parents weren't my real parents and that one day my kind beautiful talented and worldly REAL parents would show up and swoop me off to this new wonderful new life. I wonder if they're still looking...lol