The PG Dom/Sub conundrum

[LusterMunky]

So as I wait *tap tap tap* for Kal's next post (Hi Serene ), let me tell you about Munky and why I started this thread. Some history:

I've been with beautiful girls in RL who did things for me that I would never have guessed when I first met them. Was I being a Dom, or merely persuasive in having them fulfill my fantasies? Were they being subs?

 

[thejabber27]

So as I wait *tap tap tap* for Kal's next post (Hi Serene ), let me tell you about Munky and why I started this thread. Some history:

I've been with beautiful girls in RL who did things for me that I would never have guessed when I first met them. Was I being a Dom, or merely persuasive in having them fulfill my fantasies? Were they being subs?

In a D/s relationship as referring to kink, probably not. In a human dynamic of personal relationships possibly, depends on the fantasy.

 

[may_I_please]

So as I wait *tap tap tap* for Kal's next post (Hi Serene ), let me tell you about Munky and why I started this thread. Some history:

I've been with beautiful girls in RL who did things for me that I would never have guessed when I first met them. Was I being a Dom, or merely persuasive in having them fulfill my fantasies? Were they being subs?

A Dom knows Munky: it's the pleasure they take in control and taking care of their sub

You can't accidentally Dom

Ya just got lucky

 

[LusterMunky]

A Dom knows Munky: it's the pleasure they take in control and taking care of their sub

You can't accidentally Dom

Ya just got lucky

Where'd your lips go?

Guess I got lucky a lot. Maybe gurls all have the same fantasy.

 

[may_I_please]

Where'd your lips go?

Guess I got lucky a lot. Maybe gurls all have the same fantasy.

Was it the one with the leprechaun?

 

[thejabber27]

Where'd your lips go?

Guess I got lucky a lot. Maybe gurls all have the same fantasy.

Within the past few years those kind of fantasy may have increased with the way Paranormal romance goes....

 

[LusterMunky]

Was it the one with the leprechaun?

Not gonna tell ya.

Nice boobies.

 

[RubenesqueAphrodite]

not sure how to express this without coming off verbose, but here goes. ..

There is a deep, inherent need, if you will, for the baby girl or sub or consensual slave, to be "the chosen one" of her Daddy/Dom/Master.

Just like the student is nothing without the teacher, neither is the teacher any good without the student. The relationships are very different, yet so Dependant upon each other, neither can thrive alone.

As a baby girl, I derive immense pleasure knowing that I excite, challenge, and please my Daddy. As much as I need to "be counseled" on topics, he also needs "to provide said counsel." As much as I "need" him, his love, and guidance, he, in turn, must feel needed. He relishes in the knowledge that he is adored for all that he can offer, and I thrive in receiving all that he provides.

What classification one falls under ( bg/ sub/ slave) determines what you are giving and receiving. There is no hard and fast rule, either.

Another way to view it, Munky, is to think of it this way. The BG/s/SL may endure certain kinks, treatment, etc for the only reason being It makes her Dom Happy. His/Her happiness is the BG/s/sl's happiness. And what many fail to realize is if the BG/s/SL does NOT want to do something....?? Guess what, her Daddy/Dom/Master can't make her do anything. Bottom line. If the dominant "forces" anything...its rape/abuse/Psychoville...

I hope that puts I a little more into perspective for you, and maybe others.

 

[THROBBS]

choice.


free will.

 

[RubenesqueAphrodite]

choice.


free will.

See??^^^ I knew I used too many words...

 

[KalIsBack]

I'm doing dinner, but I'll get back in a few minutes. Let me just leave this word here for now:

Alpha.

(agrees with RA. That's half of it. Like what you wrote)

 

[THROBBS]

See??^^^ I knew I used too many words...

no. They are your words and feelings/impressions/thoughts.


I say "choice" and some may misconstrue it to mean "one chooses to be a sub (or dom)"

Though I think one can choose to act on one's inherent desires, which of course are not a "this or that" sort of thing...rather a mix, a range, a spectrum...

blah blah blah... I can use too many words.


delta

 

[KalIsBack]

Anywho...

So, the thing about Alpha. If you wanna look at it on a biological level, Alpha is literally life. The Alpha male survives and reproduces, spreads his far and wide, ensures the success of his line, all the things that good little organisms are supposed to do.

And on an almost universal level, every male wants to be the Alpha. There are some exceptions and such, but for the most part, there it is. The testosterone pumping inside of you right now wants to mate and mate and mate and dominate and dominate and dominate. We all males have that urge at one point or another. To compete, to win. To dominate.

And it's not that far of a stretch to carry that over to the bedroom. There was a thread somewhere a while back about the psychological pleasure derived from being a Dom/me, and there are so many different parts to it that people listed, if I recall. There's the part I just mentioned, that satisfaction at being in control, which seems like a really fundamental part of Dom/me-hood. It's a really, really powerful lust, to be honest. Like having every fantasy rolled into one. Intoxicating. And I'm sure subs will tell you the same thing from their point of view. Getting lost in the sheer power of their Dominant, overwhelmed in a good way, completely under his influence or control, etc. etc. Being a Dom/me is a lot about letting that Alpha out.

And then there are the more remote.... intangibles. The less instinctual, more actualising parts of being a Dom/me. Seeing your sub progress as a person. Having her see you the same way. Building a strong relationship, realising that it's still indeed a push and pull type of thing. There's no Dom/me without a sub and no sub without a Dom/me. And RA touched on an important point. There's no victory to be had in forcing a person to do anything, and being a Dom /me is *all* about the victory. It's the quiet words and little touches that make your sub *want* to bend to your will that make it just so perfect when s/he does. Knowing that s/he wants nothing more than to give in to you.

Seduction is my favourite word to describe it. Seduction.

And you thought you were a bit verbose, RA?

 

[may_I_please]

The other thing to understand is that just because someone professes / admits / talks of being a sub that doesn't mean they are Your sub. Too many would-be Doms miss this vital point and then are a little shocked when they get the feisty, don't fuck with me side.

In general it takes an innate self-confidence and self-knowledge to submit. Subs aren't weak and their ability / desire to power exchange with their Dom/me makes them stronger. Also we all self-determine our play zone eg RA loves the Daddy/baby girl dynamic and I don't ...neither of us are wrong ..we are just people.

 

[madhu50]

It take two to tango

 

[DesEsseintes]

The other thing to understand is that just because someone professes / admits / talks of being a sub that doesn't mean they are Your sub. Too many would-be Doms miss this vital point and then are a little shocked when they get the feisty, don't fuck with me side.

In general it takes an innate self-confidence and self-knowledge to submit. Subs aren't weak and their ability / desire to power exchange with their Dom/me makes them stronger. Also we all self-determine our play zone eg RA loves the Daddy/baby girl dynamic and I don't ...neither of us are wrong ..we are just people.

Thank you - this exactly. I've posted this before, but I really don't see the point in a weak sub, for either party. Of what value is a sub who, one feels, would submit to almost anyone? Her value to me, and what she brings, can only ever be enhanced by her own confidence and strength - not diminished by it. It would be a weak Dom indeed who only felt confident with a submissive who shuffled through life with eyes downcast, like Pound's fieldmouse, 'not shaking the grass'.

Moreover, whilst I would always wish my partner(s) to be respectful, that cuts both ways. I have had to put down a 'Master' (his self-description - it wouldn't be mine) when he came onto my then partner and submissive in a club, and she gave at least as good as she got.

When I arrived he tried to play it down and bought me a drink. I insisted he bought her a drink too, which to his credit he did, but then proceeded to talk only to me whilst she was there. He said that I'd been misinformed and that she was no submissive. I let her point out the obvious: that she was submissive to me, not him. I then asked her to leave us for a while and had a private word with him, after which he decided to leave the club.

Respect takes time and works both ways. I don't see how anything else can work, long term.

 

[KalIsBack]

Another excellent point.

But it's a very fine line.

I think most Doms want a... 'challenge' in their sub, so to speak. There's not much of a victory to be had with the weak-willed, with someone who would give themselves to anyone. It would be difficult, at best, to develop a strong, meaningful relationship with such a submissive.

But on the other hand, it can be just as difficult to develop a D/s relationship with a woman that's utterly headstrong and 'un-subby.' Although, as pointed out, those are the same characteristics that a Dom would be looking for in his sub, at least some of the time. Maybe that's one thing you're missing, Munky. A sub isn't necessarily submissive 100% of the time. Indeed, there are such things as submissive Alphas that are submissive *only* with their partner, and *only* at certain times. The fine line comes with balancing the Alpha with the submissive. And indeed, it takes a strong, firm hand to balance the two.

I suppose you could liken it to taming a wild beast, or breaking in a horse. Where's the fun in taming a rabbit when you could be taming a wolf? Anything less than the best is a waste.

Thank you for starting this entire discussion, Munky.

 

[PrissOff]

You really cannot make someone a Dom/me anymore than you can make someone a submissive. This (our) lifestyle isn't for everyone. And that's fine, it's what makes the world go round. I admit to pushing limits at times, seeing where my boundaries are and how my Dom will react to my actions. I think that's just the nature of the relationship until the submissive totally trusts the Dom/me and vice versa... and then, even after at times, just to maybe get some "extra" attention that is craved. - course, one could learn the hard way they got more than was bargained for.

 

[KalIsBack]

Part of me has realised that all of this talking will have been more or less in vain, unless Munky suddenly finds a Super-Dom within himself. It's like trying to describe the Mona Lisa to a blind man. He's just got to figure it out for himself, like as not. And maybe he won't like what he sees. That's fine with me.

Discussions like these still help me, at any rate. I don't think anyone (and this goes triply for me) really truly understands the bigger picture that is D/s. And I always love getting inputs from other Dom/mes and subs. I really do. So thankee to everyone that's posted here.

 

[PrissOff]

Part of me has realised that all of this talking will have been more or less in vain, unless Munky suddenly finds a Super-Dom within himself. It's like trying to describe the Mona Lisa to a blind man. He's just got to figure it out for himself, like as not. And maybe he won't like what he sees. That's fine with me.

Discussions like these still help me, at any rate. I don't think anyone (and this goes triply for me) really truly understands the bigger picture that is D/s. And I always love getting inputs from other Dom/mes and subs. I really do. So thankee to everyone that's posted here.

I feel the same about your post, completely.

 

[PrissOff]

I'd like to add that you should never try to bend someone to become a sub or a Dom/me to fulfill a need you have. The results most often are disastrous and one or both can walk away from it damaged. Accept each other for who you are if you want to be together.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

I'd like to add that you should never try to bend someone to become a sub or a Dom/me to fulfill a need you have. The results most often are disastrous and one or both can walk away from it damaged. Accept each other for who you are if you want to be together.

Mm. *nods*

I have something I'd like to add to this, but I've got to get kids off to school right now, it'll have to wait a bit.


Another thank-you to everyone who has posted.

 

[KalIsBack]

I'd like to add that you should never try to bend someone to become a sub or a Dom/me to fulfill a need you have. The results most often are disastrous and one or both can walk away from it damaged. Accept each other for who you are if you want to be together.

You might have better luck trying to change their blood type.

D/s isn't for everyone. Don't expect it to be. And I highly recommend NOT experimenting with D/s on someone you're not thoroughly familiar with (and even then, tread very VERY lightly).

Try making a Dom/me a sub and you'll have a whole hell of a mess on your hands.

 

[may_I_please]

I'm also fascinated by this thread and love the openness and honesty - I'd love to see more opinions and thoughts from both sides, and from those who aren't this way inclined

I do have to add one small sidenote to Kal's analysis...I think the taming/ breaking analogy gives the false idea that this type of relationship is necessarily short-lived ...I mean what happens once the sub is tamed? Where's the pleasure then? IME it's a continuum there are always new and interesting ways to be pushed sexually and I'm sure the same is true for 24/7 D/s relationships

 

[KalIsBack]

I'm also fascinated by this thread and love the openness and honesty - I'd love to see more opinions and thoughts from both sides, and from those who aren't this way inclined

I do have to add one small sidenote to Kal's analysis...I think the taming/ breaking analogy gives the false idea that this type of relationship is necessarily short-lived ...I mean what happens once the sub is tamed? Where's the pleasure then? IME it's a continuum there are always new and interesting ways to be pushed sexually and I'm sure the same is true for 24/7 D/s relationships

Well, people are always changing. And it's a relationship-long process. The point is to help her develop, to be there, to watch her grow and change, to be the catalyst for change.

And fyi.... if you ever truly tame a sub, I think you've done something wrong. I can't speak for all Doms, but I absolutely love that feisty spark in my submissive. Extinguishing that... keeping her trapped down under my thumb... I couldn't imagine a more terrible thing. I always want her to provide a challenge for me, and I know that she always will.

So maybe not breaking.... although I'm struggling to come up with an adequate analogy.