The Lounge

[Miss_Vivi]

I have a question when did sasiaty's idea of beauty be come so tainted? To the point that it has nothing to do with what is apealing to the eye. Look at all the poetry it talks about curvy full figured. look at the great artest works and try to find one skinny chick any where. What happed?

Too many people became extremely overweight and started getting serious health issues.

Came here for this.

Raven, the industrial revolution happened. And so did large commercial farming, bringing with it abundance of cheaply made foods, nearly all of which are some sort of corn product (read your labels people!). With it, the upper class could afford mobility and the lower classes not.

What we are seeing now a days is that people aren't getting the nutrients that their bodies need, but they are still obese, over weight and generally unhealthy.

Healthy food, fruits and veggies are quite expensive. Have you noticed?

Not only that but by focusing our ideas that healthy = thin we've become obsessed. When in fact that a fat active body is healthier than a thin sedentary one.

Sorry you two.. this is just something that fascinates me, and really I've only touched the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Raven_Timothy]

Actualy Vivi that is why I asked the question. to get people thinking and talking it worked. Nice to see the two of you this evening.

 

[BeautifulDream]

Came here for this.

Raven, the industrial revolution happened. And so did large commercial farming, bringing with it abundance of cheaply made foods, nearly all of which are some sort of corn product (read your labels people!). With it, the upper class could afford mobility and the lower classes not.

What we are seeing now a days is that people aren't getting the nutrients that their bodies need, but they are still obese, over weight and generally unhealthy.

Healthy food, fruits and veggies are quite expensive. Have you noticed?

Not only that but by focusing our ideas that healthy = thin we've become obsessed. When in fact that a fat active body is healthier than a thin sedentary one.

Sorry you two.. this is just something that fascinates me, and really I've only touched the tip of the iceberg.

I understand all of that, I do. They tried to make food affordable but they only succeeded in making it extremely unhealthy for you. But, even if you can not afford to buy a lot of fresh fruits, vegetables, and healthy foods you can still eat some what healthy.

My issue is the people who eat nothing but junk and never engage in physical activity then complain about being overweight. There is being curvy and HEALTHY and just simply being extremely overweight and UNHEALTHY. Same as the people who think they need to lose a lot of weight and eat nothing to be skinny. It's unhealthy.

I don't mean this in a mean way, but I'd be lying if I said I found a woman who is 400lbs and doesn't nothing but sit around attractive. I find HEALTHY people attractive.

 

[Annisthyrienne]

And I would add to Vivi's comment by including the genetically modified wheat that is now in every type of bread product and so much more. Foods you wouldn't even associate with it contain wheat germ from this new variety of plant. The genetics were modified to produce greater yield but the side effect is that our bodies cannot properly digest this new wheat. As a result, things like Celiac's disease is rampant. And those big 'beer bellies' on people that is so commonplace? You guessed it....wheat related, as are so many allergies to gluten. It even ties in to un-healthy blood sugar levels that lead to type 2 diabetes.

 

[Raven_Timothy]

Hi Thyri. thank you for chimeing in.

So dream what about the few who eat right work as mutch as they can and still are "fat/heavy"?

If we are talieing things that make us fat dont for get geans.

 

[Miss_Vivi]

I understand all of that, I do. They tried to make food affordable but they only succeeded in making it extremely unhealthy for you. But, even if you can not afford to buy a lot of fresh fruits, vegetables, and healthy foods you can still eat some what healthy.

My issue is the people who eat nothing but junk and never engage in physical activity then complain about being overweight. There is being curvy and HEALTHY and just simply being extremely overweight and UNHEALTHY. Same as the people who think they need to lose a lot of weight and eat nothing to be skinny. It's unhealthy.

I don't mean this in a mean way, but I'd be lying if I said I found a woman who is 400lbs and doesn't nothing but sit around attractive. I find HEALTHY people attractive.

It's too easy. And that's the trap we get caught in. Blaming the person for the problem that is mostly societal related. No offense doll, but you're wrong.

Our infrastructure doesn't always support healthy bodies.

First- we don't know what a healthy body is. Because it's different for every single person. Activities and genetics play a role.

Second- We don't support active lifestyles, most of which are expensive to take up. Our neighborhoods are not all walkable, and we've cut a lot of time out of gym or recess for kids.

Third- the cheapest foods are the most unhealthy foods, usually. Pop and chips and crap. So when you're on a budget... that's what you buy, because it's what you can afford.

Fourth- Our medical healthcare system doesn't support all body sizes when we are only just now beginning to understand that there is no correlation between fat and any disease. Most problems that you get from being fat.. are from lack of movement and not from the cell itself. We are also beginning to understand that fat is necessary especially in women's bodies. And did you know that the BMI calculation was created specifically to find a correlation between body size and piety? Not to mention "weight loss surgeries" are essentially taking a healthy digestive system and making it sick, so that it doesn't work correctly.

So now we have interlocking and interdependent reasons of why that person is fat and to heap more blame upon them, we assign a value system to the size of their body and then tell them over and over.. that if they wanted to fix it they could. They're just lazy.

All of which is fucked up.

And I would add to Vivi's comment by including the genetically modified wheat that is now in every type of bread product and so much more. Foods you wouldn't even associate with it contain wheat germ from this new variety of plant. The genetics were modified to produce greater yield but the side effect is that our bodies cannot properly digest this new wheat. As a result, things like Celiac's disease is rampant. And those big 'beer bellies' on people that is so commonplace? You guessed it....wheat related, as are so many allergies to gluten. It even ties in to un-healthy blood sugar levels that lead to type 2 diabetes.

+10 billion

 

[Raven_Timothy]

A point in mis Vivi's case. I was the body model for my AV. other than my tan and scars thats prity close. Acording to the Army im Fat 218lbs at 6'2" my shoulders are 23 1/2 inches acrost. Dose the AV look unhealthy?

Oh and on the fun side. It took my lady days to pluck me for the shot.

 

[saysalice]

I fucking love you, Vivi.

This is stuff I think we all know, we're all aware of - but we forget, as soon as we click that goddamn idiot-box on, and we spend most of our time feeling bad about ourselves, and feeling guilty.

Yes, by all means, eat as healthily as you can and be active - but do it for your health, not because a construct designed to sell shit (including countless bullshit weight-loss and fitness solutions) is telling you you're not okay if you don't look a certain way.

I know this, but I forget it, every single day. Just had a baby, and I hate myself a little bit, for fucking letting myself get fat!

I need to print what you wrote and tape it to my mirror.

 

[BeautifulDream]

Hi Thyri. thank you for chimeing in.

So dream what about the few who eat right work as mutch as they can and still are "fat/heavy"?

If we are talieing things that make us fat dont for get geans.

There are different factors that can lead to someone being overweight, I know this. There are many who can not shed pounds because of medicines they are taking or because they have different health issues. Some people can not exercise.

I am not referring to those people, Raven. I am talking about the people who are capable of maintaining a healthy weight but don't. I'm talking about the people who ride around on motorized scooters because they don't want to walk. I'm talking about the people who pick a McDonald's cheeseburger instead of cooking a healthier meal at home.

Let's bring up the children who can't play games with most other kids because they are extremely overweight. They can't run as much as the others, they can't jump or play sports because they get winded and have to sit down. This isn't the child's fault. I know this. This is the parents.

My point is... there is a different between healthy and unhealthy. That's all. I can't stand seeing a woman who is 90lbs and bony. But I also can't stand seeing a woman who is 400lbs sitting at McDonald's eating a super large cheeseburger while drinking a diet coke.

 

[Annisthyrienne]

*Unable to resist her beautiful charms any longer, I quickly run by, hugs and kisses the Dream, gropes her fondly, then heads for my bed to enjoy sweet dreams of a sweet Dream.*

 

[Raven_Timothy]

I fucking love you, Vivi.

This is stuff I think we all know, we're all aware of - but we forget, as soon as we click that goddamn idiot-box on, and we spend most of our time feeling bad about ourselves, and feeling guilty.

Yes, by all means, eat as healthily as you can and be active - but do it for your health, not because a construct designed to sell shit (including countless bullshit weight-loss and fitness solutions) is telling you you're not okay if you don't look a certain way.

I know this, but I forget it, every single day. Just had a baby, and I hate myself a little bit, for fucking letting myself get fat!

I need to print what you wrote and tape it to my mirror.

Hi Alice. Thank you for droping in. Im happyer that I ask the question. The more people chime in.

 

[Raven_Timothy]

*Unable to resist her beautiful charms any longer, I quickly run by, hugs and kisses the Dream, gropes her fondly, then heads for my bed to enjoy sweet dreams of a sweet Dream.*

Good night Thyri. Sleep well.

 

[Raven_Timothy]

Alice makes a good point about the boobtube it has also afected life styles, mostly not for the better.

 

[BeautifulDream]

It's too easy. And that's the trap we get caught in. Blaming the person for the problem that is mostly societal related. No offense doll, but you're wrong.

Our infrastructure doesn't always support healthy bodies.

First- we don't know what a healthy body is. Because it's different for every single person. Activities and genetics play a role.

Second- We don't support active lifestyles, most of which are expensive to take up. Our neighborhoods are not all walkable, and we've cut a lot of time out of gym or recess for kids.

Third- the cheapest foods are the most unhealthy foods, usually. Pop and chips and crap. So when you're on a budget... that's what you buy, because it's what you can afford.

Fourth- Our medical healthcare system doesn't support all body sizes when we are only just now beginning to understand that there is no correlation between fat and any disease. Most problems that you get from being fat.. are from lack of movement and not from the cell itself. We are also beginning to understand that fat is necessary especially in women's bodies. And did you know that the BMI calculation was created specifically to find a correlation between body size and piety? Not to mention "weight loss surgeries" are essentially taking a healthy digestive system and making it sick, so that it doesn't work correctly.

So now we have interlocking and interdependent reasons of why that person is fat and to heap more blame upon them, we assign a value system to the size of their body and then tell them over and over.. that if they wanted to fix it they could. They're just lazy.

All of which is fucked up.

Vivi, I adore you. I do. And I understand everything you are saying. Everything dealing with weight and what should be proper for a person is fucked up.

But let me ask you this...

If a person has the means to be healthy but they choose not to be, is the fault their own? What if they could afford to purchase the healthy food, what if they could get the exercise, yet they do not want to. Are they overweight because of a faulty system or because of themselves?

 

[Raven_Timothy]

Vivi, I adore you. I do. And I understand everything you are saying. Everything dealing with weight and what should be proper for a person is fucked up.

But let me ask you this...

If a person has the means to be healthy but they choose not to be, is the fault their own? What if they could afford to purchase the healthy food, what if they could get the exercise, yet they do not want to. Are they overweight because of a faulty system or because of themselves?

Dream you have a point and I have also see overweight people supersize things with the dietcoke. But the question is what all happend to get us where we are. So all perspectives may be valide.

 

[Raven_Timothy]

We also have to rember that we have been told what is proper to the point that some people not seeing a way out give up and dont try. Is it all their fault or do we also have to look at what is "proper exceptded" today?

 

[Britwitch]

wanders in with a yawn, glancing back over the conversation she missed

Sounds like it was a good debate but I will add here that I come from a family where no one, and I mean no one, is small. We all have massive frames that will always be that way. But we're fairly fit despite that, or I think we are.
Rugby playing boys and running girls pepper the family tree - brothers and cousins who run marathons and compete in triathlons but who would technically be called 'obsese' according to BMI figures.

As long as people are healthy and happy? I think that's all that matters.
I also think healthy, as has been said very eloquently, changes from person to person and is hard to pin down.

Could I lose a few pounds? Yes, more than a few. But I cycle a 20km round trip to work everyday where I spend a good 7/8 hours running after children and then do the same with my own little ladies in the evenings. I love to dance, am rarely 'still' and I walk/cycle everywhere that I can.

Am I thin? Hell, no. Not by a long chalk.
Am I healthy? I like to think so.

flops into a chair

Also? It's way too early again!

 

[Raven_Timothy]

wanders in with a yawn, glancing back over the conversation she missed

Sounds like it was a good debate but I will add here that I come from a family where no one, and I mean no one, is small. We all have massive frames that will always be that way. But we're fairly fit despite that, or I think we are.
Rugby playing boys and running girls pepper the family tree - brothers and cousins who run marathons and compete in triathlons but who would technically be called 'obsese' according to BMI figures.

As long as people are healthy and happy? I think that's all that matters.
I also think healthy, as has been said very eloquently, changes from person to person and is hard to pin down.

Could I lose a few pounds? Yes, more than a few. But I cycle a 20km round trip to work everyday where I spend a good 7/8 hours running after children and then do the same with my own little ladies in the evenings. I love to dance, am rarely 'still' and I walk/cycle everywhere that I can.

Am I thin? Hell, no. Not by a long chalk.
Am I healthy? I like to think so.

flops into a chair

Also? It's way too early again!

Im sorry for the early hour.

 

[Raven_Timothy]

But thank you for your imput. Arnt welsh men knowen for there size also?

 

[Britwitch]

Im sorry for the early hour.

Not much one can do with two adorable little giggling alarm clocks really, and living in a country where 'dawn' happens at about half 3 after in the morning after 19 hours of daylight doesn't help!

But thank you for your imput. Arnt welsh men knowen for there size also?

I think those from the mining areas are rumoured to be, or used to be at least.
But I know our family's size harks back to South African and Scandinavian geneology - what a mix huh?

grins

 

[Raven_Timothy]

Not much one can do with two adorable little giggling alarm clocks really, and living in a country where 'dawn' happens at about half 3 after in the morning after 19 hours of daylight doesn't help!



I think those from the mining areas are rumoured to be, or used to be at least.
But I know our family's size harks back to South African and Scandinavian geneology - what a mix huh?

grins

Being a midevil history buff. I thought I read in a few places that Welsh men were pick of the litter for longbow men becase they were stout? Any way giggleing alarmclocks...it could be worce.

 

[Raven_Timothy]

I was kind of hopeing as good as the debate was going that one or two of the guys would pitch in.

 

[Britwitch]

I was kind of hopeing as good as the debate was going that one or two of the guys would pitch in.

I'm sure some will at some point, it's just a non-guy time apparently.

smiles and goes to get tea from the kitchen

 

[Deleted member 1126402]

To be perfectly honest, I'm not even sure where I would begin. I think it the initial question was about about beauty or something then turned into health and being overweight. All in all, I'm kind of lost.

 

[Britwitch]

To be perfectly honest, I'm not even sure where I would begin. I think it the initial question was about about beauty or something then turned into health and being overweight. All in all, I'm kind of lost.

smiles and waves

I think it started out as talking about 'traditional' body types and how society's view of them has changed, which en route turned into a discussion about how being bigger doesn't necessarily denote an unhealthy lifestyle.

At least, I think that's what happened.

Anyway, how's you lovely?