The concept of Whiteness: British vs. blue-states American

[mayfly13]

After living in two former British colonies and having friends who live in the US, I arrived at the following conclusions:


Americans from Blue states view Whiteness as a broader concept.
They lump in together Brits, Germans, Italians, East Europeans, Greeks. The differences in skin tone are viewed as individual traits like height etc.


Brits. consider Whites to be only those who look like them & North Europeans.
Europeans who aren't blonds (even within 'blond' majority countries) aren't Whites, in their opinion. So they lump in together Italians, Greeks with Lebanese etc and consider them separate from Northerners.
Eastern Europeans, by contrast lump in together Greeks/Italians with Brits - as in cradles of the European civilisation.


The bias is evident even among some woke Brits./Australians. In a few cases that I witnessed, for example, when defending Italians bullied by locals, they said that they were taking a stance against "racism". They would only use the term racism' if they saw Italians as 'non-Whites".
I suspect that even dolf, who views herself as a liberal, harbours such views.

I'm not saying that Brits are bad people. It's just the messages they grew up with, in fact I met far nicer people among them, than among the traditional victim groups, who carry their own prejudices or bigotries.

Are my views correct????????

 

[mayfly13]

The idea of this thread came from searching the posts of this new poster 'kradder'.

No, I'm not a stalker. I just wanted to make sure that he's not renard_ruse or q, as I liked some of his posts (minus the jewophobia).

He claims that he's from South Africa.
And that one difference that he noted between Americans and South Africans,when it comes to how they define races, is this:

I know americans lump all 'people of color' as black. We don't. American blacks also do not have an african culture, and it is a hybrid. Any african black will also agree. Generally here Coloureds intermarry amongst the same, as do blacks and whites and indians. No one sees this as racist. It is just the preferred choice by all groups. Coloured and Black are very different social 'castes'.

Many of your blacks would not be considered black by blacks here. They would probably be considered Coloured, with that hybrid culture. There is little in common between your american black, a black zulu or a brown San.

(( N.B.--apparently the term 'coloureds' is used by some popullations of mixed blood from South Africa, to define their own idetity -- as in culture, not morphology))

 

[mayfly13]

The bias is evident even among some woke Brits./Australians. In a few cases that I witnessed, for example, when defending Italians bullied by locals, they said that they were taking a stance against "racism". They would only use the term racism' if they saw Italians as 'non-Whites".
I suspect that even dolf, who views herself as a liberal, harbours such views.

When I first came across such scenarios (see highlighted part) , I was horrified.
Because it's the ideology of Aryanism unknowingly perpetuated by well-meaning people, who are anything But racists.


I really hope that ogg, dolf and butters would challenge this scary, obfuscated ideological shit from within their midst, before lobbying against racism.

 

[rockcasbah]

Breaking down people by their economic, social and ethnic roots isn’t limited to any one political caste, is it?

Even Zumi calls blacks he doesn’t like “tokens”.

 

[mayfly13]

Breaking down people by their economic, social and ethnic roots isn’t limited to any one political caste, is it?

Even Zumi calls blacks he doesn’t like “tokens”.

I love how Zumi 'erected' himself as spokesperson of Blacks.

 

[oggbashan]

The older British term for southern Europeans was 'wogs' - Western Oriental Gentlemen,

But I think Mayfly is decades out of date. Brits come in various colours and generally, there is no discrimination anymore.

In London, British 'whites' are possibly a minority and everyone generally gets on well. My youngest daughter Oops! Granddaughter! lives in a part of London that has a large minority of Japanese and they fit in well. My youngest daughter (aged 10) speaks Japanese and is often assigned to look after new Japanese children so that they fit in.

Racism is often between ethnic groups rather than between 'whites' and others.

 

[rockcasbah]

I love how Zumi 'erected' himself as spokesperson of Blacks.

Better still, he now sits in judgement over their careers and decides if they are real black people or “tokens”.

A black man who is racist towards more accomplished black men….yeah, that sounds like Zumi.

Blackoccio?

 

[mayfly13]

Racism is often between ethnic groups rather than between 'whites' and others.

ogg, I don't think that Brits., or even nazi Germans were/are worse than other ethnicities. Geesh, just look at how Russians-Ukrainians Chinese/Japs /Africans Middle Easterners Yugoslavs are/were hating on and hacking each other.

But the difference is -- you guys, Anglos-- still rule the World in this post-colonial world -- military bases and so on. And like any power, you're disseminating ideologies that maintain you in power.
That's why you're under scrutiny,

As your power wanes, the focus will shift to others.
Only recently, given their rise to power, I learned how racists and bigotted Chinese can be.

 

[JohnEngelman]

I usually refer to myself as a white Gentile of European descent. Jew haters do not consider Jews to be white. I agree with Jared Taylor who said famously, "Jews look white to me." They look white to me too.

"Nordic theory, in Madison Grant's formulation, was similar to many 19th-century racial philosophies, which divided the human species into primarily three distinct races: Caucasoids (based in Europe - Whites), Negroids (based in Africa - Blacks), and Mongoloids (based in Asia - Asians). Nordic theory, however, further subdivided Caucasoids (Whites) into three groups: Nordics (who inhabited Northern Europe and other parts of the continent), Alpines (whose territory included central Europe and parts of Asia), and Mediterraneans (who inhabited Southern Europe, North Africa, parts of Ireland and Wales, and the Middle East)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Grant

According to Madison Grant I am a Nordic. My ancestors came from Germany, England, Norway, and the German part of Switzerland. Madison Grant was also a Nordic. He thought Nordics were the most superior race. I disagree, and agree with Professor J. Philippe Rushton, who argued on the basis of characteristics necessary to create and maintain successful societies and civilizations that Ashkanazi Jews are Number One, followed by Orientals. Whites come in third. Of course, characteristics necessary to civilization overlap between the races. I have known Negroes who were more civilized than some of the whites I have known.

 

[oggbashan]

ogg, I don't think that Brits., or even nazi Germans were/are worse than other ethnicities. Geesh, just look at how Russians-Ukrainians Chinese/Japs /Africans Middle Easterners Yugoslavs are/were hating on and hacking each other.

But the difference is -- you guys, Anglos-- still rule the World in this post-colonial world -- military bases and so on. And like any power, you're disseminating ideologies that maintain you in power.
That's why you're under scrutiny,

As your power wanes, the focus will shift to others.
Only recently, given their rise to power, I learned how racists and bigotted Chinese can be.

The Chinese always have been. To them, the rest of the world is inhabited by barbarians since their first Emperor. They haven't changed.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

Samosa boy is yearning for trumptard attention again and gets a midget as a wingman. Lol

 

[Chobham]

I lump people into one of two groups. Assholes and not assholes.

 

[rockcasbah]

I lump people into one of two groups. Assholes and not assholes.

Anti-Sphincterite!

 

[mayfly13]

The Chinese always have been. To them, the rest of the world is inhabited by barbarians since their first Emperor. They haven't changed.

the most shocking thing for me was their humble personna.
I was used to Germans, Russians and Americans, where what you see is what you get; if they feel iferior or superior to you they show it or brag.

So for years I thought that all Chinese people were modest and had low self-esteem.

The older British term for southern Europeans was 'wogs' - Western Oriental Gentlemen,

But ogg, I'm not referring to that. Most European countries are like that, everyone looks down on their neighbors.

I'm not referring to traditional low-grade racism either.
I'm referring to Aryan beliefs, which started in the 19 century saying that Nordic races are separate from other European races, and better.

I am spooked out because I came to the conclusion that such Aryan beliefs are still sprinkled in the fabric of society, Australian and NZ at least. Much more benign and will never lead to direct oppression, but some good people still hold them on a subconscious level.
And that creeped me out when I realised it.

 

[oggbashan]

Those Aryan beliefs were part of Nazism. They never took hold in the UK except for the minority 1930s party led by Sir Oswald Mosley. His ideas were soundly defeated in WW2 and although there are still minor and very small racist parties they have no mainstream affiliations in the UK.

As before, you are decades out of date about Brits. The majority of current Brits were born long after Empire, and even after the 'British' Commonwealth. They have no personal knowledge of colonies.

 

[mayfly13]

Those Aryan beliefs were part of Nazism. They never took hold in the UK except for the minority 1930s party led by Sir Oswald Mosley. His ideas were soundly defeated in WW2 and although there are still minor and very small racist parties they have no mainstream affiliations in the UK.

As before, you are decades out of date about Brits. The majority of current Brits were born long after Empire, and even after the 'British' Commonwealth. They have no personal knowledge of colonies.

yeah, only been on working hollidays in Britain,
I also live in former colonies. I shouldn't equate them with Brits., even if they have the same dna.

 

[JohnEngelman]

Those Aryan beliefs were part of Nazism. They never took hold in the UK except for the minority 1930s party led by Sir Oswald Mosley. His ideas were soundly defeated in WW2 and although there are still minor and very small racist parties they have no mainstream affiliations in the UK.

As before, you are decades out of date about Brits. The majority of current Brits were born long after Empire, and even after the 'British' Commonwealth. They have no personal knowledge of colonies.

The British Empire was the most enlightened and humane empire in history. The legacy of the British Empire has been representative democracy and well functioning economies.

 

[ishtat]

yeah, only been on working hollidays in Britain,
I also live in former colonies. I shouldn't equate them with Brits., even if they have the same dna.

So where were you born, where have you lived, and where do you live now? And what religious and cultural tradition are you part of? Without that information it is difficult to make either head or tail of your assertions. You identify your perceived cultural/racial enemies with antiquated assumptions which are years out of date, all of which are meaningless without knowledge of the basic facts of who you are and your cultural experience.

 

[mayfly13]

So where were you born, where have you lived, and where do you live now? And what religious and cultural tradition are you part of? Without that information it is difficult to make either head or tail of your assertions. You identify your perceived cultural/racial enemies with antiquated assumptions which are years out of date, all of which are meaningless without knowledge of the basic facts of who you are and your cultural experience.

East European, born in the 70's. EE's are just as bigotted as Anglos, but to me their brand of racism feels different. Less focused on colorism, I think more focused on continents or cultures.

 

[oggbashan]

Colourism? The UK is a safe multicultural country. It would be an unusual day if I didn't interact with a person of different skin colour and/or who wasn't born in the UK.

 

[mayfly13]

Colourism? The UK is a safe multicultural country. It would be an unusual day if I didn't interact with a person of different skin colour and/or who wasn't born in the UK.

by govt.'s policies.
But has mass immigration improved race relations?

White supremacy is scarily on the rise Worldwide -- I'm not referring to England.
Part of it is understandable, because immigrants have been used by neoliberals to bring local wages down. (aka not update them to inflation)

 

[rockcasbah]

It would be an unusual day if I didn't interact with a person of different skin colour and/or who wasn't born in the UK.

Help me Rwanda, help help me Rwanda…

 

[oggbashan]

Help me Rwanda, help help me Rwanda…

Rwanda is a last-ditch attempt to destroy the people smugglers' profits.

Thousands of people each year risk their lives to cross the Channel at vast costs. The French appear unable to stop them even though they try hard. The people smugglers are willing to take risks because they get so much money from each boatload and they don't care if people drown.

 

[rockcasbah]

Rwanda is a last-ditch attempt to destroy the people smugglers' profits.

Thousands of people each year risk their lives to cross the Channel at vast costs. The French appear unable to stop them even though they try hard. The people smugglers are willing to take risks because they get so much money from each boatload and they don't care if people drown.

Punishing the victims. Novel approach!

 

[oggbashan]

Australia have been doing it for years.

Those sent to Rwanda will have their claims for asylum processed. If they succeed, and many boat people do, they can get residence in the UK. If they fail - they can stay in Rwanda, or be returned to France or to their country of origin.

It is not punishing the victims - they are victims of the people smugglers.