The Allure of the Forbidden: How willing are you to use taboo as a driver of erotic tension?

[John_Vandermeer]

I personally find it more interesting to write stories where the erotic magnetism reaches past taboo lines. But in related threads it seems clear many authors rather not go there, either because their squicks tell them there is a good reason the taboo lines are there, or because they are unable or unwilling to admit certain unspoken taboo lines are there. Though I like to point out some of the emblematic romances of all time resort to this device unabashedly: Romeo and Juliet, Tristan and Isolde, etc.

In my own writing interest I recognize three recurring forms of allure of the forbidden. Perhaps because all three provide perfect set ups for tease and denial situations, which is a kink present in all my stories.

Incest stories, which is of course a top theme among Lit readers, even if a number of AH authors squick on it. I think there are other appeals to incest other than the allure of the forbidden. But yeah, if some poor sap lusts after his mother, or sister, or daughter, you immediately have an interesting and intense inner conflict between what he wants and what he knows he is allowed to have, at least on a sustainable basis.

Other man's wife stories. Though of course infidelity is another top Lit readers theme, this is different that your typical cuckold or even bull stories. The distribution of who is victim and who is villain is different. Here the victim is the man who lusts after another man's wife, and the villain is said wife that toys with that man. Notice the details of that dynamic differ if the husband is a random stranger, a best friend, or a worst enemy of his wife's suitor. Yet again there is immediate interesting and intense inner conflict.

Social privilege/underprivilege stories. Perhaps have the highest squick factor as many are uncomfortable even facing the reality of privilege/underprivilege boundaries. Also may have the smallest, and yet at the same time quite dedicated, audience. Yet even Disney has tackled it several times (think Lady and the Tramp for example). Privilege boundaries may be drawn based on wealth, race, legal rights, and other matters, and often several such matters at the same time.

There are other examples of the allure of the forbidden of course, and a story can include multiple such elements at the same time. The reason I am thinking about, for example, is I am currently writing and editing a middle chapter of a femdom romance between a rich legitimate sister, and her poor illegitimate brother, diving into both the first and third type above.

So where do you fall in your willingness to use the allure of the forbidden? Use it all the time? Wont touch it with a ten foot pole? Might do some kinds but never, ever some other kinds?

 

[Grendelpuppy]

I wallow in the allure of infidelity combined with privilege. Current events are making it really controversial.

 

[SimonDoom]

Very.

I find the forbidden, or the taboo, or the naughty, or whatever you want to call it a highly erotic and arousing element in erotica. It's not just that the sex is more delicious when it's bad, it's that it gives a sense of escape and catharsis. People chafe under rules, even if they think the rules are important. That's human nature. We need a release from time to time. Erotica provides that.

It helps that I have no squicks. I can read anything, and in the last 20 years I pretty much have. I have very few limits on what I would be willing to write. The only things I can think of are snuff/torture, scat, and pedophilia. But even with respect to those categories, my answer would be, it depends. After all, Lolita, depending on how you look at it, could be called a story about pedophilia, and it's one of the greatest novels. I see nothing wrong with Lolita. There are countless mainstream horror movies that combine sex and murder, and nobody seems to bat an eye at them.

My favorite taboo subjects to write about are:

Incest
Extreme exhibitionism
Wives having sex outside marriage
Power imbalance, which bleeds into both BDSM and nonconsent
Prostitution

The things I write about don't necessarily reflect things I actually sexually fantasize about or have any experience with. Incest, for example. I think it's a fun subject for stories but I've never had incest fantasies or experiences.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Other than long hair, my main kink is anal sex; mainly because, when I was growing into my sexuality, decades ago, it was exceptionally rare to know a woman who was into it. It was a huge taboo, associated far more with homosexuality (pre-Aids, for era context). Now, you sit on a bus and, according to the impression you get these days, you sit and identify the 30% or 40%, whatever, who are said to have tried it. Which is a lot of people on your daily commute. But, who ever really knows what the stats are.

I was fortunate enough to meet a girl at uni who liked me in her ass as a special treat every month or so, and it's stayed with me as a favourite fantasy. No other partner liked it, but many women in my stories do.

I didn't know incest was a fantasy thing until I came to Lit in 2014, and I find the whole thing bizarre. The notion of having a thing for my mum is just ridiculous, and being a brother in between two sisters - sibcest might work with one but not the other, because she's always been my little sister, ffs. And I'm a father with a daughter, so not going there, even when I hung her frilly knickers on the line.

I've got a few stories with incest sub-themes, token contributions really; and one story with a really dumb final sentence, gee, there's a twist. I'm surprised no-one called me out on it, frankly, because it really didn't need that last sentence, and could just as easily have gone into EC or Mature.

Social privilege, under privilege would never occur to me as a theme for erotica, and the LW infidelity/cuckold themes do nothing for me at all.

 

[SimonDoom]

Other than long hair, my main kink is anal sex; mainly because, when I was growing into my sexuality, decades ago, it was exceptionally rare to know a woman who was into it. It was a huge taboo, associated far more with homosexuality (pre-Aids, for era context). Now, you sit on a bus and, according to the impression you get these days, you sit and identify the 30% or 40%, whatever, who are said to have tried it. Which is a lot of people on your daily commute. But, who ever really knows what the stats are.

I was fortunate enough to meet a girl at uni who liked me in her ass as a special treat every month or so, and it's stayed with me as a favourite fantasy. No other partner liked it, but many women in my stories do.

I didn't know incest was a fantasy thing until I came to Lit in 2014, and I find the whole thing bizarre. The notion of having a thing for my mum is just ridiculous, and being a brother in between two sisters - sibcest might work with one but not the other, because she's always been my little sister, ffs. And I'm a father with a daughter, so not going there, even when I hung her frilly knickers on the line.

I've got a few stories with incest sub-themes, token contributions really; and one story with a really dumb final sentence, gee, there's a twist. I'm surprised no-one called me out on it, frankly, because it really didn't need that last sentence, and could just as easily have gone into EC or Mature.

Social privilege, under privilege would never occur to me as a theme for erotica, and the LW infidelity/cuckold themes do nothing for me at all.

I wonder if there's a generational thing involved. You're just a few years older than I am, but I get the feeling you've got a lot more of that late 60s-early 70s hippy vibe going, where everything goes and you're fairly relaxed about things, whereas I graduated from high school when Reagan was president and the US, if not other places, was getting more buttoned up, and people were railing on about porn, and worries about AIDS were beginning. I have no hippy in me. Taboo resonates, more, I think, if you feel those sexual restraints more keenly and therefore derive more pleasure from (fantasizing about) breaking them. It may also be a national thing; Australia may be a more sexually relaxed country than the USA. We are a bizarrely conflicted country.

But still, with all those sheep, and all that lonely, open space, one does wonder . . .

 

[SimonDoom]

And if you had any such thoughts, would you be willing to share them with us?

Hell no. You're just going to have to take my word for it.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

I didn't know incest was a fantasy thing until I came to Lit in 2014, and I find the whole thing bizarre. The notion of having a thing for my mum is just ridiculous, and being a brother in between two sisters - sibcest might work with one but not the other, because she's always been my little sister, ffs. And I'm a father with a daughter, so not going there, even when I hung her frilly knickers on the line.

It is true that having real kinswomen relationships might be an impediment to writing, therefore fantasizing at some level at least, incest relationships. Not everybody has sisters and daughters, yet everybody has (at least biological) mothers. And yet on Lit at least, momcest seems to be the top incest theme. So clearly that is not an impediment to either some writers or many readers. I have written all three: momcest, siscest, and daucest, And personally I find I just have to not think of the kinswomen I may or may not have, to do it. Simply imagine some guy that has a kinswoman he has the hots for. I also have no problem with the older/younger power/less-power boundary line, as in my stories, regardless who is older, the women always hold the cards. Besides, it is not necesary all of us lust after our kinswomen, only that somebody does. And the royal history of the world has shown us many more than just one somebody has done so (and not always just for dynasty preservation reasons). Famous fictional examples (like GOT) are merely examples of art imitating life.

 

[SimonDoom]

It is true that having real kinswomen relationships might be an impediment to writing, therefore fantasizing at some level at least, incest relationships. Not everybody has sisters and daughters, yet everybody has (at least biological) mothers. And yet on Lit at least, momcest seems to be the top incest theme. So clearly that is not an impediment to either some writers or many readers. I have written all three: momcest, siscest, and daucest, And personally I find I just have to not think of the kinswomen I may or may not have, to do it. Simply imagine some guy that has a kinswoman he has the hots for. I also have no problem with the older/younger power/less-power boundary line, as in my stories, regardless who is older, the women always hold the cards. Besides, it is not necesary all of us lust after our kinswomen, only that somebody does. And the royal history of the world has shown us many more than just one somebody has done so (and not always just for dynasty preservation reasons). Famous fictional examples (like GOT) are merely examples of art imitating life.

I agree. I don't find it difficult to project my authorial self beyond the realm of my real self, and to disregard whatever personal, real-world objections I might have to engage in certain kinds of activities. To me, that's part of the fun of it.

 

[Djmac1031]

I've written a few incest themed stories, I have no objections to taboo if it's what the story calls for.

Just submitted a brand new story that, while not incest or technically even "taboo" I suppose, may wind up being somewhat controversial depending on people's views.

I knew that going in. Didn't stop me from writing it lol.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Other than long hair, my main kink is anal sex; mainly because, when I was growing into my sexuality, decades ago, it was exceptionally rare to know a woman who was into it. It was a huge taboo, associated far more with homosexuality (pre-Aids, for era context). Now, you sit on a bus and, according to the impression you get these days, you sit and identify the 30% or 40%, whatever, who are said to have tried it. Which is a lot of people on your daily commute. But, who ever really knows what the stats are.

I was fortunate enough to meet a girl at uni who liked me in her ass as a special treat every month or so, and it's stayed with me as a favourite fantasy. No other partner liked it, but many women in my stories do.

I didn't know incest was a fantasy thing until I came to Lit in 2014, and I find the whole thing bizarre. The notion of having a thing for my mum is just ridiculous, and being a brother in between two sisters - sibcest might work with one but not the other, because she's always been my little sister, ffs. And I'm a father with a daughter, so not going there, even when I hung her frilly knickers on the line.

I've got a few stories with incest sub-themes, token contributions really; and one story with a really dumb final sentence, gee, there's a twist. I'm surprised no-one called me out on it, frankly, because it really didn't need that last sentence, and could just as easily have gone into EC or Mature.

Social privilege, under privilege would never occur to me as a theme for erotica, and the LW infidelity/cuckold themes do nothing for me at all.

Thank you for your honesty in sharing this with us! I have only one anal sex story on another site. I thought of rewriting it for Lit, but I'm not sure if it's worth doing.

I've mentioned that I also had no idea of how popular incest stories (with blood relatives) were until I got to Lit. I had imagined it was a niche interest at best. But we have spoken of the need to respect each other's kinks, within certain limits. (Like no snuff, for example. Keep that in one's own head if it's there.)

 

[gunhilltrain]

I wonder if there's a generational thing involved. You're just a few years older than I am, but I get the feeling you've got a lot more of that late 60s-early 70s hippy vibe going, where everything goes and you're fairly relaxed about things, whereas I graduated from high school when Reagan was president and the US, if not other places, was getting more buttoned up, and people were railing on about porn, and worries about AIDS were beginning. I have no hippy in me. Taboo resonates, more, I think, if you feel those sexual restraints more keenly and therefore derive more pleasure from (fantasizing about) breaking them. It may also be a national thing; Australia may be a more sexually relaxed country than the USA. We are a bizarrely conflicted country.

But still, with all those sheep, and all that lonely, open space, one does wonder . . .

Nixon was still president when I graduated from high school. So I've noticed that many of my stories, without choosing the themes at first, are sort of about the end of the "hippie" era and the beginning of the "punk" era. (Both terms were quite a bit exaggerated by the media, of course, but there was some truth in it.)

There is also the theme that about the end of the "optimistic" sixties (exaggerated too) and the disappointment of the seventies (all too real, I think). Many of my characters are thus young, white ethnic New Yorkers who are coming to grips that the fact that the protest marches of the previous age cohort were not going to solve white flight, the collapse of public infrastructure, the abandonment of housing, or the financial bankruptcy of various governments.

I'm not sure exactly how that connects with their romantic / sexual lives, but it's always there, just in the background. They notice it in the foreground when they are afraid to walk to the subway at night (or even ride it) or they buy cars so that they can avoid it entirely. Of course, then they have problems parking them, because car theft was out of control.

https://viewing.nyc/not-too-long-ago-thousands-of-abandoned-cars-littered-new-york-city-with-steel/

 

[Euphony]

I didn't know incest was a fantasy thing until I came to Lit in 2014, and I find the whole thing bizarre. The notion of having a thing for my mum is just ridiculous, and being a brother in between two sisters - sibcest might work with one but not the other, because she's always been my little sister, ffs. And I'm a father with a daughter, so not going there, even when I hung her frilly knickers on the line.

Sample size.

Incest (category) is incredibly hetero-normative, hence the squicks/pushback on even fairly mundane sexual practices these days like anal sex or even milquetoast homosexual couples.

Many readers like to *feel* taboo without being very boundary pushing at all. Incest has a built in large hetero-normative readership to draw from. Even a fraction of that majority is a significant readership.

And there are plenty who don't have the real world relationships that might disrupt fantasy. Or have bad relations with those roles in their life so there's a certain reclaiming by idealizing better versions of what could have been.

There is a much bigger divide between fantasy (reading) and real life actualization which many don't speak to here.

Group sex readers are seen more as exploring their fantasies rather than sex parties/club connoisseurs on a hiatus.

Incest can very much be the same "working through feelings" but the social stigma pushes hard the notion that it's a true desire unfulfilled which has not been shown the case with other fantasies research.

Many women enjoy male homosexual sex fantasy/reading/porn etc. but with little interest in a real world viewing. No need to "perform," lack of the male gaze, "turning" (your femininity being so grand it overwhelms a man's default sexuality) safety, etc. have been reported as fantasy benefits but aren't really applicable to the real world experience in usual cases.

People fantasize about things they have no real world interest in all the time because fantasy is a safe space to work feelings out.

Including incest.

 

[HeyAll]

Crossing the line is the secret ingredient to great erotica. And explaining "the conflict in the heart" as Faulkner put it (i think it was him, i read that quote somewhere about literature).

There has to be a level of 'this can't happen in real life' to make it hot, while also making the characters and the setting realistic.

 

[MillieDynamite]

For a point of reference, precisely what shall we call, Taboo? Of the publishable content on this site, perhaps the only thing I think of as really taboo these days is incest. So, tell me what we, as a group, will call taboo for this discussion.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

For a point of reference, precisely what shall we call, Taboo? Of the publishable content on this site, perhaps the only thing I think of as really taboo these days is incest. So, tell me what we, as a group, will call taboo for this discussion.

I get we are a diverse set of writers with all sort of interests, kinks and fetishes represented. But many of those are still off limits to many others both within and even more so outside of Lit. Extra marital sex--or what a religious type would call "adultery"--clearly is an example. Outside of swingers communities and the like. Relationships across privilege boundaries is a whispered, but still existing one (ask Meghan Markle), even if some of the most abhorrent institutionalized examples of that are no longer with us (Apartheid, Jim Crow, etc). True fact: some sexual practices, like gay sex, anal sex, and non marital cohabitation, have only very, very recently been struck off the laws in some states and counties in the US. Even if they had not been enforced for decades. So anything a large enough group of people would look at with at least silent disapproval, even if some of us accept it as part of our daily sexual lives.

 

[lc69hunter]

For a point of reference, precisely what shall we call, Taboo? Of the publishable content on this site, perhaps the only thing I think of as really taboo these days is incest. So, tell me what we, as a group, will call taboo for this discussion.

I read very few Incest stories, and rate and comment on even fewer, though there are a few that are gracefully done. As for conflict, which was discussed earlier as a driver, I see a difference between internal and external conflict. Almost every story, in every category, has some internal conflict by the protagonist. There is a very large contingent in LW that thrives on external conflict, which I am not a fan of, as I am a fan of loving and consensual. IR used to be more taboo than it is now, but there a very few writers down there who do it well. RyanTyler94 is one. Fetish is the catchall for all the weird stuff that many would call taboo.

 

[SeraphNocturne]

I have, and will, write nearly anything for nothing more than the sake of improving my talent as a writer.

I've written characters of all sexuality types and genders. I've written incest, infidelity, slavery, non-consent/reluctance--I think the list of things I have not tried a hand in as an author is probably shorter. I won't say I enjoy writing any and everything, but depending on the story I'm writing, I'm not afraid to pull out all the stops if it fits the setting and characters... and yes, I do have places where I draw the line such as racially charged slavery, anything having to do with the bathroom, anything having to do with animals and then the painfully obvious categories that I don't think anyone ever should write--snuff/grievous bodily harm, or underaged characters.

As far as taboo goes though... I'd give Oscar Wilde a run for his money with some of the things I've written.

 

[ElectricBlue]

People fantasize about things they have no real world interest in all the time because fantasy is a safe space to work feelings out.

Including incest.

Obviously, yes, people fantasize, and write about their fantasies. I do, constantly, I write what turns me on, in real life.

All I'm saying is that I was astonished, when I got here to Lit ten years ago, at the popularity of incest on this site. I couldn't understand it, frankly, and wondered if it was a peculiarly American puritanical conflict thing. I mean, my mum was "the old ched" who made me vegemite and cheese sandwiches and taught at the local convent school, so I was more interested in those good Catholic girls where every town rumour suggested they weren't. Plus I went to a co-ed school, so teenage girlfriends were a norm growing up. Why look at my mother when I had Robyn and Vicki and Julie? And being a middle brother between two sisters, I was part of sibling dynamics as brother and sisters, squabbling and playing Scrabble.

As Simon notes, perhaps I am indeed a relic of the tail end of Australian hippiedom, and growing up in a sexually enlightened family and environment may well have made a difference. I was reading the Marquis de Sade and other literary smut classics off my dad's bookshelf when I was fifteen, knicked some of his porn mags from his bottom drawer when I was seventeen (he must have known but never said), and before that, when i was thirteen, my older sister came out as gay. So I was exposed to gender politics very early, and my own teenage and young adulthood was spent in the company of girls and young women, and I was clearly hetero, so there was no closet to worry about.

Under those circumstances, my fantasy life has been healthy enough without needing Freud. Besides, I'm more Jungian, with anima and animus, twins and doppelgangers, mirrors, mystics and witches, as many of my stories will tell you.

 

[ElectricBlue]

But still, with all those sheep, and all that lonely, open space, one does wonder . . .

You're welcome to come to Australia if you're into sheep, Simon, but I believe across the pond in New Zealand is more the country of origin for that viscious rumour .

Do the north island first, and pop into Hobbiton for an ale. The waiters are normal height and no hairy feet, so that might be a little disappointing, and Mount Doom is only five feet high and made out of fibreglass - the Zeta studio is well worth a visit, but might be getting a bit tired now.

 

[Euphony]

wondered if it was a peculiarly American puritanical conflict thing.

Research has shown essentially equal rates between the U.S. and developed Western European cultures (within margin of error) and I'm inclined to believe the European data as less noised by morality issues inherent in many pockets of the United States. Lehmiller is a good "in" to navigating sexuality/fantasy research.

And setting both our individual experiences aside and focusing on the macro (which constitutes the readership of the category) things are incredibly different from pre-internet developing individuals and post. It's similar to how our tastebuds are blown out by now easy access to sugar, takes more to register the dopamine hit.

Porn is easily accessed, nuclear families spread out to two households now more than ever (so maternal detachment is greater, step relations can feel less intimate opening to more fantasy) parents wanting "friendship" not disciplinarian relationships is far more common, two income households leading to more estrangement, etc. etc. etc.

One of the tenants of the new thinking in fantasy research moves away from Freud's problematic model of fantasy meaning something, consciously or sub and more towards it being an outlet for working through difficult psychology, trauma repair, or simply a mind testing its limits.

To mindfully engage at Literotica should be an exercise in understanding how varied individuals lived (and downstream fantasized) experiences can be.

i "get" why some are vehemently squicked by Incest and, having come across just how common the topic is in sexual fantasy research (astounding really,) "get" how popular it is here and many of the whys.

By the research, I've been convinced the assumption many like to make that a large portion of the population want actual physical relations with "choose your relative" is poorly informed and an oversimplification to meet either morality concerns, lack of interest in the subject, or just human nature to reduce things because our minds prefer simplicity and patterns.

 

[gunhilltrain]

For a point of reference, precisely what shall we call, Taboo? Of the publishable content on this site, perhaps the only thing I think of as really taboo these days is incest. So, tell me what we, as a group, will call taboo for this discussion.

I think I mentioned that "snuff" material would qualify. I guess American Psycho is on the border of snuff, unless one thinks it's entirely a fantasy by the narrator. Non-consent is kind of uncertain of Lit, being frowned upon but not entirely banned, I suppose. I can't be sure in every case. There is a NonConsent / Reluctance category, which seems like a rather "squishy" way of describing it. There are plenty of coercion concepts in Story Ideas, although I suspect most of them don't get written.

 

[SimonDoom]

For a point of reference, precisely what shall we call, Taboo? Of the publishable content on this site, perhaps the only thing I think of as really taboo these days is incest. So, tell me what we, as a group, will call taboo for this discussion.

Broadly speaking, and I believe as the OP means it, a "taboo" is a social or religious custom that forbids indulging in or associating oneself with certain practices. I think it's fair to say the following are to some degree "taboo" among the majority of people in modern society:

Incest
Pedophilia
Snuff
Torture
Rape
Being naked in public
Bestiality
Pee/Scat
BDSM, although it may depend

Lit audiences may be somewhat more liberal and not regard these things as taboo, although my impression is the Lit readership is selectively liberal, and some people fully understand certain kinks but not others.

I don't think the following are taboo any more in the strong sense, but you can present them as taboo depending upon the nature and biases of your characters: lesbian, gay male, anal, interracial, transgender. An example would be a story about a straight man seduced by a gay man. The straight man will feel a sense of taboo about what he is doing, and that will affect the eroticism of the story. The taboo element can exist in, and enhance, a story even if it has largely faded away in society.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

Prostitution was mentioned earlier, and I have actually enjoyed erotica authors elsewhere (probably some on Lit too, but have yet to search for it) that have compounded infidelity with prostitution by having wives that moonlight as prostitutes. That is in my mind an excellent example of the use of taboo to drive eroticism.

 

[ElectricBlue]

And setting both our individual experiences aside and focusing on the macro (which constitutes the readership of the category) things are incredibly different from pre-internet developing individuals and post. It's similar to how our tastebuds are blown out by now easy access to sugar, takes more to register the dopamine hit.

Porn is easily accessed, nuclear families spread out to two households now more than ever (so maternal detachment is greater, step relations can feel less intimate opening to more fantasy) parents wanting "friendship" not disciplinarian relationships is far more common, two income households leading to more estrangement, etc. etc. etc.

I think you're absolutely right here.

My coming of sexual age, the environment in which I discovered erotica, how erotica clicked with what made me tick, how my fantasy mind works; was within the context of a libertarian and literary upbringing and the magazine era (God bless Bob Guccione and his magnificent lush women), fifteen to twenty years before the internet.

I can still remember the first email I ever received (must have been in 1988, I reckon), and thinking, "That's gonna change how business is done." And my first internet browser, maybe 1997? (Gillian Anderson, a good place to start).

So my sexuality was well and truly in place pre-internet, pre mass access pornography, and I didn't have any of the non-nuclear family dynamics (or repressions) you mention. Which is why the discovery, another twenty years later, that incest porn was such a huge thing, was a complete surprise. I had no idea, it really was a what the fuck? moment.

And when I saw the unending sameness of most of it, and a formula guide on how to write it, I began to really shake my head. There are some astonishingly good stories which dig really deep into the dynamic, but they're the exceptions - like any other category, I guess.

I can get my head around sibcest easily, and have written a character based on my older sister - she left the family when I was still a young teenager, and was the first mature woman I ever saw naked, so that leaves trails. But momcest is just perplexing, always will be (no matter how often Simon explains it ).

As a (sort of) aside, my current WIP is a long nostalgia piece set in the late seventies, when I was at uni - it'll be interesting to see how it goes down with younger readers. It'll be completely outside their experience, that's for sure.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I don't think the following are taboo any more in the strong sense, but you can present them as taboo depending upon the nature and biases of your characters: lesbian, gay male, anal, interracial, transgender. An example would be a story about a straight man seduced by a gay man. The straight man will feel a sense of taboo about what he is doing, and that will affect the eroticism of the story. The taboo element can exist in, and enhance, a story even if it has largely faded away in society.

But isn't that why any well written story that addresses those themes will still do well, because deep down, they still are taboos? - with a significant chunk of the population never having experienced them (but might want to)?

The fact that so many readers are so quick to express their squicks, "Oh no, please don't write that, it upsets me," points to that, surely? Or is that just some sort of continuing moral hypocrisy from individuals who are still toying with their own sexuality?

I'm not sure those things have faded away as forbidden as much as you think - sure, they're thrust down our throats more (bad metaphor on a smut site, I know), but for most people, wouldn't they still be well outside their day to day sexuality? I dunno.