That 'booming' economy?

[DawnONight]

The only thing I have gotten from the Trump economy has been regular rent increases. Those started as soon as he became president. Under Obama my rent was reduced by $50 a month. One month I was allowed to avoid paying any rent at all.

Two questions:

1. Why do you think you should get to live rent-free?
2. Do you really think of all that happens in the economy, your rent is dependant upon who is in the White House?

Funny how quiet he suddenly became....

 

[allison22]

By now we are all familiar with the usual economic talking points of right-wing politicians. They tell us, with the utmost confidence, that cutting taxes for the rich will incentivize investment and job creation. The lower the corporate tax rate the more people these benevolent corporations will employ. That, in a nutshell, is the mantra of conservative economics.

Abhijit Banerjee and Esther Duflo, this year’s winners of the Nobel prize for economics, beg to differ. Their work suggests that not only does this strategy intensify economic inequality, it also doesn’t do much to induce economic growth.

As Banerjee puts it, “You don’t boost growth by cutting taxes, you do that by giving money to people.” Modest increases to the taxes paid by the wealthiest could fund welfare programs that put more money into the pockets of average folks. They, in turn, return this money into the economy in the form of consumption. It is their spending which increases demand for goods and services and boosts investment, jobs, and overall growth.

Banerjee and Duflo’s advice flies in the face of right-wing economic policy. Conservatives, in Canada and abroad, are reducing taxes for corporations and wealthy elites in the hopes that they will invest some of the cash they are hoarding.

Take the United Conservative government in Alberta for instance. This year they announced plans to slash the corporate tax rate from 12 percent down to 8 percent. They call it the “Job Creation Tax Cut”. This year a 1% reduction was implemented, which did indeed cut costs for corporations and leave them with more cash on hand. Husky Energy which had benefited to the tune of $233 million from the tax cuts, then proceeded to lay off hundreds of workers. Far from creating employment, the “Job Creation Tax Cut” did nothing to save Albertan jobs from the chopping block.

Worst yet, the tax cuts resulted in a loss of government revenues. To offset these losses, the Conservative government in Alberta is gutting welfare programs that would have left more money in the hands of consumers. If Banerjee is even slightly correct, these changes will not only do little to attract investment and employment, they will have adverse effects on economic growth and inequality.

So, on one side we have a Nobel prize-winning economists that tell us to increase taxes and give more money to average folks who will spend it. On the other side, we have Conservatives like Jason Kenney that are decreasing welfare spending and giving more money to rich folks who are hoarding it. Take your pick. It’s not a hard choice.

https://north99.org/2019/10/30/nobel-prize-winning-economist-debunks-rightwing-economics/

 

[BotanyBoy]

By now we are all familiar with the usual economic talking points of right-wing politicians. They tell us, with the utmost confidence, that cutting taxes for the rich will incentivize investment and job creation. The lower the corporate tax rate the more people these benevolent corporations will employ. That, in a nutshell, is the mantra of conservative economics.

Republican economics....not "conservative" economics, that's not even a thing, good job identifying yourself as not understanding what you're talking about.

Abhijit Banerjee and Esther Duflo, this year’s winners of the Nobel prize for economics, beg to differ. Their work suggests that not only does this strategy intensify economic inequality, it also doesn’t do much to induce economic growth.

Nobel prive = left wing hand job....leftist regularly and consistently conflate economic equity with economic health/growth.

Yet for all their prizes not a one of them can show us where that's actually worked out.

 

[JackLuis]

Republican economics....not "conservative" economics, that's not even a thing, good job identifying yourself as not understanding what you're talking about.

Nobel prive = left wing hand job....leftist regularly and consistently conflate economic equity with economic health/growth.

Yet for all their prizes not a one of them can show us where that's actually worked out.

So, kind'a like "Trickle Down" then?

 

[JackLuis]

Illinois governor pardons 11,000 people convicted for non-violent pot offenses on eve of his state legalizing the drug

Illinois is gonna BOOM soon!

 

[magicalmoments]

Republican economics....not "conservative" economics, that's not even a thing, good job identifying yourself as not understanding what you're talking about.

A simple google search would show who doesn't understand what they're talking about.

 

[Ziggins]

The dollar value of an economy is a derivative of available food and energy. As the soil is sterilized and eroded, the water is fracked, and the oilfields are drained, economies shrink. The middle class life of cars and huge houses in the suburbs is starting to disappear. A future middle class life might be walking or riding a streetcar to work and a room in a shared house.

 

[BotanyBoy]

So, kind'a like "Trickle Down" then?

No.

A simple google search would show who doesn't understand what they're talking about.

yes I know it's a term some people use to describe fiscal conservatism...but it's a really bad way to do so. Especially since fiscal conservatism has nothing to do with trickle down.

Trickle down is a neo-liberal economic theory promising "natural" wealth redistribution.

Fiscal conservatism is just governmental minmalism.

Libertarians and classical liberals are fiscal conservatives, neoliberal republicans are trickle down jokers.

 

[SecretSapphic]

"


This year, retailers have announced 8,000 stores closures — and counting. That number already exceeds last year's total of 5,864 closure announcements, according to a report from Coresight Research. The firm forecasts as many as 12,000 stores will close by the end of the year."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/09/business/freds-bankruptcy-closures/index.html

While Trump is claiming to have created "the best economy ever", here's the reality:

1. Life expectancy is down.
2. Income inequality is the highest it's been in over 50 years.
3. Seventy-eight percent of American workers are living paycheck to paycheck.
4. Sixty-four percent of Americans are at risk of retiring broke.
5. Economic growth is slowing.
6. Suicides are climbing to record levels, especially in rural areas.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

These are structural problems in every developed country in the world...including slowing growth.
.

No these are not happening in every developed country. The exact opposite is the case north of your border in ever single one in this list!!.

1. Life expectancy is down.
2. Income inequality is the highest it's been in over 50 years.
3. Seventy-eight percent of American workers are living paycheck to paycheck.
4. Sixty-four percent of Americans are at risk of retiring broke.
5. Economic growth is slowing.
6. Suicides are climbing to record levels, especially in rural areas.

While you may get away shedding the blame to Trump's predecessors, ask/show what Trump has done in 3 years to fix any of those USA problems.

 

[BotanyBoy]

No these are not happening in every developed country. The exact opposite is the case north of your border in ever single one in this list!!.

1. Life expectancy is down.
2. Income inequality is the highest it's been in over 50 years.
3. Seventy-eight percent of American workers are living paycheck to paycheck.
4. Sixty-four percent of Americans are at risk of retiring broke.
5. Economic growth is slowing.
6. Suicides are climbing to record levels, especially in rural areas.

While you may get away shedding the blame to Trump's predecessors, ask/show what Trump has done in 3 years to fix any of those USA problems.

Hopefully nothing, it's not the federal governments job to fix those problems.

 

[jp55665566]

Democrats are begging, pleading and praying for a recession; just so they can blame President Trump. Pathetic.

 

[magicalmoments]

#291 & 292 above

Genuine question.
Who is responsible for managing the USA economy?
I understand that the economy is made up of many components each independent of each other but each complementing the other. There are many controlling agencies, each independent but again, complementing each other. each of the controlling agencies have the ability to cause a recession all by themselves, but... Given trumps recent abdication of being the person with whom the buck stops, Where does the buck stop in the USA?

 

[DawnONight]

While Trump is claiming to have created "the best economy ever", here's the reality:

1. Life expectancy is down.
2. Income inequality is the highest it's been in over 50 years.
3. Seventy-eight percent of American workers are living paycheck to paycheck.
4. Sixty-four percent of Americans are at risk of retiring broke.
5. Economic growth is slowing.
6. Suicides are climbing to record levels, especially in rural areas.

I wonder how old you are. My memory goes back to about 1970 and, as one of four daughters of a recently divorced single mom who worked as a real estate agent, I grew up acutely aware of the shape of the economy from year to year, even month to month. I can attest that we are in the best economy for at least the past 50 years.

Meanwhile, your unsubstantiated assertion that "Income inequality is the highest it's been in over 50 years" displays either ignorance or dishonesty on your part, and thus draws the rest of your unsubstantiated assertions into question. As I have established elsewhere:

....

In fact, the poor have gotten wealthier while the wealthy have gotten poorer.

Again, the following is all U.S. Census Bureau data:

http://assets.realclear.com/images/49/490786_5_.png

Between 2017 and 2018:

· Real median family income up 1.2%

· Real median earnings up 3.4%

· Full-time, year-round workers up 2.3 million

· Poverty rate down from 12.3% to 11.8%; childhood poverty fell faster; net 1.4 million people left poverty

· Income in the bottom 80% of households was up significantly....​

A. Brown, The Economic News From the Census Bureau Is Very Good, RCM (Oct. 10, 2019) (citing J. Semega, et al., Income and Poverty in the United States: 2018, U.S. Census Bureau (Sep. 10, 2019)).

These data establish that despite your assertion, "income inequality" has decreased under Trump. Get your facts straight if you want to be taken seriously here.

 

[BotanyBoy]

#291 & 292 above

Genuine question.
Who is responsible for managing the USA economy?

There is no real management....as you said, there are many independent components.

I understand that the economy is made up of many components each independent of each other but each complementing the other.

There are many controlling agencies, each independent but again, complementing each other. each of the controlling agencies have the ability to cause a recession all by themselves, but... Given trumps recent abdication of being the person with whom the buck stops, Where does the buck stop in the USA?

That's such a broad question that at large I'd have to say it doesn't have any 1 stop.

If you ask about a specific industry there is certainly some regulatory agency, but they all just regulate against you from harming/being destructive to others or the public at large. Supposed to anyhow, sometimes they do get weaponized.

But otherwise there is no central economic management.

 

[BotanyBoy]

While Trump is claiming to have created "the best economy ever", here's the reality:

1. Life expectancy is down.
2. Income inequality is the highest it's been in over 50 years.
3. Seventy-eight percent of American workers are living paycheck to paycheck.
4. Sixty-four percent of Americans are at risk of retiring broke.
5. Economic growth is slowing.
6. Suicides are climbing to record levels, especially in rural areas.

What does income inequity have to do with how well the economy is doing??

 

[jp55665566]

Joe Biden to coal miners - After we shut you down... "Learn to be a programmer/coder, anybody can do it." - Joe Biden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqT-OWJBtDI

 

[DawnONight]

This past year, median family income adjusted for inflation rose to $66,000 for the first time ever. Think about that.... The average household income in China—which is our major challenger for global supremacy—is less than $15,000....

As our old friend Arthur Laffer wisely reminds us, people don’t work to pay taxes. They work and earn income so that they can buy things—for themselves and for others. And we are doing just that. Barron’s just reported another blockbuster Christmas shopping season. So much for all the jibberish a few months ago about a recession. We are all spending more—because we have more.​

S. Moore, Democrats Peddle Doom, but the Middle Class Never Had It So Good, Heritage Foundation (Jan. 2, 2020).

 

[Sean Renaud]

Joe Biden to coal miners - After we shut you down... "Learn to be a programmer/coder, anybody can do it." - Joe Biden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqT-OWJBtDI

So as I've said for years what Dems need to learn is to fucking lie to people. Don't tell them that there is work ahead, I would have been a lot more brutal than he was about anybody can do it.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

This past year, median family income adjusted for inflation rose to $66,000 for the first time ever. Think about that.... The average household income in China—which is our major challenger for global supremacy—is less than $15,000....

As our old friend Arthur Laffer wisely reminds us, people don’t work to pay taxes. They work and earn income so that they can buy things—for themselves and for others. And we are doing just that. Barron’s just reported another blockbuster Christmas shopping season. So much for all the jibberish a few months ago about a recession. We are all spending more—because we have more.​

S. Moore, Democrats Peddle Doom, but the Middle Class Never Had It So Good, Heritage Foundation (Jan. 2, 2020).

Median and Average are not the same terms. Mean Median and Mode, google them

 

[DawnONight]

Median and Average are not the same terms. Mean Median and Mode, google them

Yes. I know.

What is your point?

In this case, median is more significant, because it is not susceptible to the effects of outliers the way mean is.

Or didn't you take any Statistics in college?

 

[BotanyBoy]

So as I've said for years what Dems need to learn is to fucking lie to people. Don't tell them that there is work ahead, I would have been a lot more brutal than he was about anybody can do it.

That's because you've been through shit you had to figure out.

Unlike a bunch of "Mah daddy's daddy was a miner!! So I'm entitled to this line of work!" among many other entitled cry babies who haven't.

Granted, crayon eating jarheads might be made fun of for well...being crayon eaters...but they are also world renowned for not being afraid of adversity/challenge and having hard-ons for hardship.

Can't expect some soft handed pen pushers who've built a career out of being likable and promising the universe they know they can't deliver to have that kinda grit.


Long time no see, welcome back, even if just for a visit

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Yes. I know.

What is your point?

In this case, median is more significant, because it is not susceptible to the effects of outliers the way mean is.

Or didn't you take any Statistics in college?

The point is you are using the median for America, but the mean for China.

So if you are going to compare numbers Statistically, you use the same numerical denotation.

Seem maybe you didn't take statistics. I know I didn't, but I am smart enough to know the difference.

 

[jaF0]

US manufacturing weakest in a decade
Fox Business|3 minutes ago
The U.S. manufacturing sector contracted to its lowest level since the financial crisis, spurring concerns about the health of the overall economy. Continue Reading Below The ISM Manufacturing Index fell for the fifth month in a row to 47.2 in December, down from November's reading of 48.1. That's the weakest reading since June 2009, when it ...

 

[PrincepsCyberius]

The point is you are using the median for America, but the mean for China.

So if you are going to compare numbers Statistically, you use the same numerical denotation.

Seem maybe you didn't take statistics. I know I didn't, but I am smart enough to know the difference.

Well, neither of you are exactly right.

In statistics, the word "average" is avoided because it has several definitions. In statistics, you refer to "measures of central tendency." In statistics, median and mode are both considered ways to demonstrate the "central tendency."

In both everyday English and mathematics, "average" can mean either "median" or "mean" (or "mode").

In the quote Dawn posted, the author wrote of the "median family income" in the USA and the "average household income" in China. I suspect he chose different words for stylistic purposes, because we're all taught to avoid repetition in such writing. Note how for one he uses "family" and for the other he uses "household." The same way, he used "median" in the earlier sentence, so he used its synonym "average" in the second to mean the same thing.

Further, even if we accept Fuzzy's assumption that the author wrote of the USA's "median" income but of China's "mean" income, it doesn't change the validity of the point made in the quote. In fact, it strengthens it.

As Dawn points out: "median is... not susceptible to the effects of outliers the way mean is." Given that with income, potential outliers are bounded at the low end, but unbounded at the high end, mean will result in a higher number than median. So, if fuzzy is right, Chinese incomes are even lower in comparison to those in the USA than suggested in the article, which amplifies the author's (and Dawn's) point.

Sorry, Fuzzy. You lost on this one.