That 'booming' economy?

[Fuzzy1975]

Well, neither of you are exactly right.

In statistics, the word "average" is avoided because it has several definitions. In statistics, you refer to "measures of central tendency." In statistics, median and mode are both considered ways to demonstrate the "central tendency."

In both everyday English and mathematics, "average" can mean either "median" or "mean" (or "mode").

In the quote Dawn posted, the author wrote of the "median family income" in the USA and the "average household income" in China. I suspect he chose different words for stylistic purposes, because we're all taught to avoid repetition in such writing. Note how for one he uses "family" and for the other he uses "household." The same way, he used "median" in the earlier sentence, so he used its synonym "average" in the second to mean the same thing.

Further, even if we accept Fuzzy's assumption that the author wrote of the USA's "median" income but of China's "mean" income, it doesn't change the validity of the point made in the quote. In fact, it strengthens it.

As Dawn points out: "median is... not susceptible to the effects of outliers the way mean is." Given that with income, potential outliers are bounded at the low end, but unbounded at the high end, mean will result in a higher number than median. So, if fuzzy is right, Chinese incomes are even lower in comparison to those in the USA than suggested in the article, which amplifies the author's (and Dawn's) point.

Sorry, Fuzzy. You lost on this one.

My point was on Dawn's laziness on fact checking, since most of what she does is cut n paste.

Median is a median, mean is a mean, and mode is the mode.

She should have just left her post as it was, "median family income adjusted for inflation rose..". Period end of story. Why throw in the China aspect, since I doubt there is a valid Median income for the Chinese people available on the web adjusted for inflation or not. But she did, so the whole point as a comparison is moot.

Anyone in the Western world knows Chinese incomes are lower than in any Western Country.

"The average household income in China...is less than $15,000.00"


I was in no way arguing for or against her point. Just pointing out she was comparing apples to oranges. If you have no way to describe the Median income of China, adjusted for inflation or not, don't!

My original reply is not based upon a win/lose mentality. I posted it to her because her original post was not "a factual comparison" .

 

[DawnONight]

My point was on Dawn's laziness on fact checking, since most of what she does is cut n paste.

Median is a median, mean is a mean, and mode is the mode.

She should have just left her post as it was, "median family income adjusted for inflation rose..". Period end of story. Why throw in the China aspect, since I doubt there is a valid Median income for the Chinese people available on the web adjusted for inflation or not. But she did, so the whole point as a comparison is moot.

Anyone in the Western world knows Chinese incomes are lower than in any Western Country.

"The average household income in China...is less than $15,000.00"


I was in no way arguing for or against her point. Just pointing out she was comparing apples to oranges. If you have no way to describe the Median income of China, adjusted for inflation or not, don't!

My original reply is not based upon a win/lose mentality. I posted it to her because her original post was not "a factual comparison" .

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-06/4/12/enhanced/webdr06/anigif_enhanced-buzz-32571-1401897641-27.gif​

 

[icanhelp1]

While Trump is claiming to have created "the best economy ever", here's the reality:

1. Life expectancy is down.
2. Income inequality is the highest it's been in over 50 years.
3. Seventy-eight percent of American workers are living paycheck to paycheck.
4. Sixty-four percent of Americans are at risk of retiring broke.
5. Economic growth is slowing.
6. Suicides are climbing to record levels, especially in rural areas.

You give Trump way too much credit whether good or bad. He lent a hand in setting it free for potential growth, cutting regulations, lowering corporate tax rates and insisting on fair trade agreements. He's more market sensitive then the progressive left who revel in wealth redistribution and government intrusion.

Your list has nothing to do with economic growth or the state of the economy.

 

[icanhelp1]

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-06/4/12/enhanced/webdr06/anigif_enhanced-buzz-32571-1401897641-27.gif​

Thank God for google LOL

 

[jaF0]

Jan. 6 (UPI) -- Bordon Dairy, the milk company that made Elsie the Cow famous, announced Sunday it is filing for bankruptcy, saying new competition, fewer milk drinkers and shrinking profits have made its debt load "unsustainable."

The Dallas-based Borden said it has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in Delaware after seeing profits dwindle in competition with soy, rice and nut alternatives.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/202...airy-files-for-bankruptcy/2561578324753/?sl=4

 

[magicalmoments]

Seeing that I get told off for guessing at economic stats and also I've never claimed to be an expert in economics, perhaps one of the resident republican experts on the politics board could tell us what the projected real GDP for 2020 indicates for the USA economy, especially compared to trumps promise of achieving 6% real GDP in his first term. Coupled with this is the spiralling national debt, currently standing at $23 trillion. Can you tell us what all this means in terms of how the overall economy will perform according to the Trumpian theory of economics?

 

[icanhelp1]

Seeing that I get told off for guessing at economic stats and also I've never claimed to be an expert in economics, perhaps one of the resident republican experts on the politics board could tell us what the projected real GDP for 2020 indicates for the USA economy, especially compared to trumps promise of achieving 6% real GDP in his first term. Coupled with this is the spiralling national debt, currently standing at $23 trillion. Can you tell us what all this means in terms of how the overall economy will perform according to the Trumpian theory of economics?

You'd probably get more back and forth if you would cut out your constant TDS. You have nothing but negative when actually there are many positives.

Economies always fluctuate and are affected by external as well as internal stimuli ( IRAN )... USMCA, Japan and the first stage of China trade deals should keep us in the goldilocks range. I believe in 2020 Trump will aggressively lobby the pacific rim nations individually for trade deals that benefit both sides. I don't believe we know the full impact of leaving the TPP. Trump believes dealing with each country separately bodes better for the US, it remains to be seen. Brexit is still a wild card. The TPP and the EU minus the US is also a wild card. The EU economies have been stagnant for over a decade due to a multitude of problems including poor monetary policies but seem content to continue on its present course. Growth is not in their future. Multi-lateral trade agreements and high corporate tax structure have decimated our manufacturing sector, if your of left persuasion the tax cuts are for the rich and if your right leaning lower taxes create jobs, I believe the latter is true.

Gdp projections of 1.9% to 2% is perfect, Over accelerated GDP growth is not healthy, slow and steady. 6% burn rate is pure madness, couldn't be done even on his best day, hard to improve with full employment. Trump doesn't control all aspects of the economy but some of what he does is good.

The inverted short bond yield has righted itself and a stable fed rate puts the Dollar in a good place. Cooler heads have stopped the race to a zero fed rate in comparison to negative EU rates which is unsustainable. The currant fed rate allows space to act to counter inflation, but there was a fear of deflation in october but better news from the Pacific rim countries soothed ruffled feathers

Core inflation is projected 1.9 % in 2020, 2% 2021 and projected to remain steady at 2% 2022.

Mortgage securities are still considered a good investment which seems to confirm no fear of a recession in the near future.

Housing startups are at a high which seems to indicate people have money and personal spending is at a healthy rate and household incomes are at an alltime high. You can take up the argument with Fuzzy concerning the definition of mean, median, average and outliers, the point is, is that family incomes have increase as well as spending power. Fuzzy being Fuzzi, contrarian in nature and has a dislike for Dawnonight, much like you!

Unemployment at 3.5 % and the U-6 at 6.9 % down from 7% and steady, labor participation 63% and steady which seems to indicate any further need for fed rate reduction is on the back burner.

The debt is a crisis and the payment on the interest is eventually going to affect discretionary capabilities and threaten mandatory obligation, we are spending away our future. We are taking in more revenues and should be using this boom to balance the budget, cut deficit spending and pay down debt but our lawmakers find this boom an opportunity to step on the spending throttle, SAD, my opinion, sins of a two party system and lack of term limits.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Jan. 6 (UPI) -- Bordon Dairy, the milk company that made Elsie the Cow famous, announced Sunday it is filing for bankruptcy, saying new competition, fewer milk drinkers and shrinking profits have made its debt load "unsustainable."

The Dallas-based Borden said it has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in Delaware after seeing profits dwindle in competition with soy, rice and nut alternatives.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/202...airy-files-for-bankruptcy/2561578324753/?sl=4

So? LOL.....all this shows it Borden failed to adapt to the markets.

 

[cuck72]

So? LOL.....all this shows it Borden failed to adapt to the markets.

I agree, bad management has nothing to do with the great economy.

 

[magicalmoments]

#47 above
Ukrainian farmers eat their kids? When was this?

 

[icanhelp1]

#47 above
Ukrainian farmers eat their kids? When was this?

1921-22 the great man made famine, Lenin stole food from peasants forcing them into cannibalism.

 

[magicalmoments]

Gdp projections of 1.9% to 2% is perfect, Over accelerated GDP growth is not healthy, slow and steady. 6% burn rate is pure madness, couldn't be done even on his best day.

We can agree on this at least. As I've said I'm no economist but I can read and the best economists in the world say this. Some would argue that a higher level of 3% is a better result than 2%.

What concerns me, is trumps insistence that a GDP result of 1.9% is disastrous for an economy and that he makes promises that under his administration up to 6% GDP is achievable and sustainable. As you point out this is our madness.

As for full employment, any country runs an ongoing budget deficit and borrows and increases the national debt to the extent of $23 trillion should be able to sustain full employment, but that can't go on for ever, sooner or later the interest payments themselves are going to be unsustainable. It's like living on an unlimited credit card and only making minimum payments. It catches up with you in the end.

It's got nothing to do with TDS, which is not a real thing, and everything to do with DTS.

Why am I so concerned with how the USA economy is performing, especially in the longer term. Because, economically speaking, when the USA coughs, NZ catches a cold.

 

[icanhelp1]

We can agree on this at least. As I've said I'm no economist but I can read and the best economists in the world say this. Some would argue that a higher level of 3% is a better result than 2%.

When you're at full employment 3% is tops but 2% is ideal, no need to overheat the economy. Overproduction can lead to an asset bubble which eventually leads to a recession. Increased economic output doesn't necessarily determine a healthy economy, a steady balance on both sides of the equation which leads to increased employment and grad wage increases due to full employment will benefit most.

What concerns me, is trumps insistence that a GDP result of 1.9% is disastrous for an economy and that he makes promises that under his administration up to 6% GDP is achievable and sustainable. As you point out this is our madness.

He's wrong!! What he's right about is increased manufacturing to level out from being a total service oriented economy, hence corporate tax cuts and bring manufacturing back to the states. Tough to compete with cheap labor, Tariffs force countries like China to manipulate monetary policy to subsidise their manufacturing sector lowering prices which pretty much nullifies tariff on our side, minus big agri. Big agri needs to learn how to adjust to market conditions and change with global demands. Businesses need to sharpen their forecasting abilities, especially big agri. I agree with Trump, multilateral trade agreements don't always work well, leaves you holding the bag with huge trade deficits and no legal recourse to get out of them, hence backing out of TPP and building on bi-lateral which allows for course corrections on both sides

As for full employment, any country runs an ongoing budget deficit and borrows and increases the national debt to the extent of $23 trillion should be able to sustain full employment, but that can't go on for ever, sooner or later the interest payments themselves are going to be unsustainable. It's like living on an unlimited credit card and only making minimum payments. It catches up with you in the end.

I have nothing more to say on 23 trillion in debt, been preaching that for 20 years. The fear is the interest on the debt and the 17 trillion unfinanced liabilities. We can live with 400 billion in interest payments as long as we eliminate deficit spending and keep the fed rate between 1.5 and 2%, after that its off to the races and insolvency. Right now our bond rating ( debt rating ) MOODY'S, FITCH and the S&P are all *AAA* The markets are enjoying a goldilocks session ( DOW, S&P AND RUSSEL) have been on the rise, personal wealth is on the increase.

It's got nothing to do with TDS, which is not a real thing, and everything to do with DTS.

Why am I so concerned with how the USA economy is performing, especially in the longer term. Because, economically speaking, when the USA coughs, NZ catches a cold.

Trump is causing some of this, part of it is reigning in stifling regulations, part of it is psychological and some comes from someone willing to take on China, challenging China for world markets including finance. I don't carry water for Trump but I know enough about economics to understand what he's doing.

 

[magicalmoments]

#317 above
So... One hundred years ago. And historians are still debating whether the cannibalism happened. You're saying that electing a democratic president in 2020 will result in a famine that will have Americans serving each other up for dinner. Yes, I could almost believe that, your country has form.

In my opinion your suggestion has as much credibility as the argument that trumps assassination of Suleimani will have the same result as the assassination of archduke Ferdinand.

Just fanciful nonsense.

 

[icanhelp1]

#317 above
So... One hundred years ago. And historians are still debating whether the cannibalism happened. You're saying that electing a democratic president in 2020 will result in a famine that will have Americans serving each other up for dinner. Yes, I could almost believe that, your country has form.

In my opinion your suggestion has as much credibility as the argument that trumps assassination of Suleimani will have the same result as the assassination of archduke Ferdinand.

Just fanciful nonsense.

I just dated a historical fact and then you let your imagination run away with you and falsely embellished what I wrote. You need to take your argument up with BotBoy.

I don't believe the archduke of Ferdinand was a murdering terrorist, lousy comparison. I know you're still in mourning over your loss, all our lefty loons mourn with you, but, for most of us that served in the military and lost brothers and sisters to that murderer "THE WICKED WITCH IS DEAD". Suleimani and his minions killed 1500 + his own citizens. Maybe Iranian people will wake up.

Hassan Rouhani has one foot out the door and the other on a banana peel, interesting to see what happens when he shits to bed, maybe the regimes collapses. I think when Rouhani shits to bed Suleimani may have been groomed to move into the open slot, upward mobility and maybe that was one of the not so subtle reasons to kill that bastard, our behind the scene attempt to help the Iranian people.

I hope the Iraqis vote us out and we pull back to S.A., Jordan, Israel, Egypt and the UAE and minimize our footprint in the area.

The real future threat to ME peace is Turkey, they have ambitions on Syria and Iran. I'm all for Russia and China sticking their nose in the middle of the whole cluster fuck. When were gone the Shia and Sunnies will continue where they left off. Iran has ambitions of expansion as well as Turkey and the Kurds.

I think the borders established by the UN after WWII will slowly be restored to their original borders prior to WWII with the exception of Israel and maybe Beirut will again become the Jewel of the East. Let the UN and Europe deal with Iran Nukes.

We've had the lion's share of keeping the strait of Hormuz open, time to change the guard, maybe NZ can send your navy over there and you protect shipping lanes. All Trump and the American people want is an equitable sharing of responsibilities in the region. I know most americans want out..

The Iran deal was a sham from the start and did not solve the problem of Iran nukes. The EU had economic and trade ambitions with Iran and really didn't care about Iran's nuclear ambitions. They overlooked the shortcomings of the deal for selfish economic reasons, did not want to upset the apple cart.

It's France and Britain, through their colonial expansion, that fucked up the Mideast, let them fix it. Iran is on the same glide path as NK, as a matter of fact, they're allies and trade partners.

 

[JackLuis]

‘What am I supposed to do?’ Desperate KY miners block another coal train over pay.

For the second time in less than a year, financially desperate coal miners in Eastern Kentucky have occupied a set of railroad tracks, blocking a coal train to protest their unpaid wages.

The miners, about a dozen employees of Quest Energy, a subsidiary of American Resources Corporation, pledged Monday night to hold their position on the track until the company pays their back wages.

Huddled around a campfire along the railroad tracks in the Kimper area of Pike County, the miners and several of their wives described the financial hardships they have suffered from the lack of paychecks: one miner said his electricity had been cut off; another said his rent is past due; two miners said they could not afford the $50 fee for their children to play elementary school basketball.

“I’m sure the school will work something with me, but what am I supposed to do if they don’t?” said Dylan Davidson, a mining machine operator and roof bolter. “Am I supposed to tell my little boy he can’t play because daddy don’t have the money to pay because I ain’t been paid at work?”

About a dozen miners interviewed at the tracks Monday night said they received their last paycheck Dec. 27. Several provided bank statements to verify their claims. Many miners said they worked every day for about two weeks after the date they were last paid, sometimes putting in 17-hour shifts.

Moscow Mitch is sure to step in, right?

 

[magicalmoments]

The country has full employment, there are plenty of jobs about that apparently are paying wages, they should relocate to where the jobs are. If the employers in the reinvigorated coal industry find they can't recruit miners they'll soon start paying wages.

 

[magicalmoments]

Seems to be a drought on news of the booming economy.
I would have thought that with the framework for economic success that has been put in place and with the year end just past there would be a flood of information released showing increased growth.
Instead it seems indicators like unemployment, real GDP, have plateaued and national dept continues to soar, increasing by $10000 a second apparently.
Come on folks, where's the good news on the booming economy?

 

[icanhelp1]

Seems to be a drought on news of the booming economy.
I would have thought that with the framework for economic success that has been put in place and with the year end just past there would be a flood of information released showing increased growth.
Instead it seems indicators like unemployment, real GDP, have plateaued and national dept continues to soar, increasing by $10000 a second apparently.
Come on folks, where's the good news on the booming economy?

A telltale sign that the economy is in good shape is the steady stock market increases despite the threat of impeachment. Media platforms are all about impeachment 24/7. If you want info on the economy and market news you need to watch the like of CNBC, FOX BUS or Blumberg Financial, or buy investors daily or WSJ.

 

[DawnONight]

Seems to be a drought on news of the booming economy.
I would have thought that with the framework for economic success that has been put in place and with the year end just past there would be a flood of information released showing increased growth.
Instead it seems indicators like unemployment, real GDP, have plateaued and national dept continues to soar, increasing by $10000 a second apparently.
Come on folks, where's the good news on the booming economy?

I don't want to disappoint. I just looked and immediately found this.

There was a strong rise in US housing starts in December to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 1.61 million units, a new 13-year high.

The data from the HUD and Commerce Department shows a 16.9% increase in starts from the previous month with single-family starts up 11.2% to 1.06 million and multifamily up 29.8% to a 553,000 pace.​

S. Randall, Housing starts hit a 13-year high in December, MPA Magazine (Jan. 21, 2020) (emphasis added).

The USA's economy is so hot right now, it takes little effort to find such records being broken every month. Thank you for asking.

 

[magicalmoments]

#326 above
I guess it depends on where you look for your info. Although construction has been doing well, riding on the back of the massive national debt, some are predicting the good times may be over.
https://www.construction.com/news/Construction-Starts-Slip-back-2020-Dodge-Data-Analytics

 

[cuck72]

#326 above
I guess it depends on where you look for your info. Although construction has been doing well, riding on the back of the massive national debt, some are predicting the good times may be over.
https://www.construction.com/news/Construction-Starts-Slip-back-2020-Dodge-Data-Analytics

The good times will end if Trump is not reelected. Think of the debt after the health care for all cost, and the student loan debt pay off. Can you say "HOW HIGH CAN OUR TAXES GO BEFORE THE BOTTOM FALLS OUT." Trump is right, the DUMBocrats are nuts.

 

[magicalmoments]

Oh, I think you're fairly safe in assuming the chosen one will be re-elected, even with the revelations in Bolton's book. But I think you'll also find the good times, economically speaking, are coming to end now. All the experts are saying the key indicators for the economy are going to plateau and recede over the next 3 years, except for unemployment which is projected to increase. His stable genius and great and unmatched wisdom will not be able to stop it.
But on the plus side the world gets to watch the best reality show on TV for another 5 years and get more laughs from the chosen one as he drags his nation into the cess pool it has already started to become.

 

[YDB95]

The good times will end if Trump is not reelected. Think of the debt after the health care for all cost, and the student loan debt pay off. Can you say "HOW HIGH CAN OUR TAXES GO BEFORE THE BOTTOM FALLS OUT." Trump is right, the DUMBocrats are nuts.

Since we've been cutting taxes more often than not for nearly 40 years, the answer to your question is probably "quite a lot". Besides, no one ever worries about the effect on the debt from military bloat and corporate welfare, not to mention tax cuts for the richest of the rich (who simply squirrel all that money away).

 

[cuck72]

Oh, I think you're fairly safe in assuming the chosen one will be re-elected, even with the revelations in Bolton's book. But I think you'll also find the good times, economically speaking, are coming to end now. All the experts are saying the key indicators for the economy are going to plateau and recede over the next 3 years, except for unemployment which is projected to increase. His stable genius and great and unmatched wisdom will not be able to stop it.
But on the plus side the world gets to watch the best reality show on TV for another 5 years and get more laughs from the chosen one as he drags his nation into the cess pool it has already started to become.

WOW! REALLY???? nobody really knows what will happen, but one thing is for sure. President Trump has none more for the economy then any other President, and still has lots of trade deals to go through over the next 5 years, that's if people are smart and vote for him again.