Testing the Gorilla

[HoHoBomb]

I met you on somebodys island
You thought you had known me before
I brought you a crate of papaya
They waited all night by your door
You probably wouldnt remember
I probably couldnt forget
Jungle love in the surf in the pouring rain
Everythings better when wet

Jungle love its drivin me mad
Its makin me crazy
Jungle love its drivin me mad
Its makin me crazy

But lately you live in the jungle
I never see you alone
But we need some definite answers
So I thought I would write you a poem
The question to everyones answer
Is usually asked from within
But the patterns of the rain
And the truth they contain
Have written my life on your skin

Jungle love its drivin me mad
Its makin me crazy
Jungle love its drivin me mad
Its makin me crazy

You treat me like I was your ocean
You swim in my blood when its warm
My cycles of circular motion
Protect you and keep you from harm
You live in a world of illusion
Where everythings peaches and cream
We all face a scarlet conclusion
But we spend our time in a dream

Jungle love its drivin me mad
Its makin me crazy
Jungle love its drivin me mad
Its makin me crazy

Jungle love its drivin me mad
Its makin me crazy
Jungle love its drivin me mad
Its makin me crazy​

 

[Arkhilokhus]

I find entirely immature jealousy to be exhausting. I expect to be trusted and given a chance to stand up for myself first. But the willingness to jump into the fray for me...that I need.

This is the way I look at it, too. I prefer a certain level of possessiveness, both in myself and my partners. But jealousy, ime, represents a lack of trust (even if it's, "I normally trust you, but activity x is a bridge too far").

So I guess I see jealousy as a warning system rather than something to be overcome or excised.

 

[Recidiva]

This is the way I look at it, too. I prefer a certain level of possessiveness, both in myself and my partners. But jealousy, ime, represents a lack of trust (even if it's, "I normally trust you, but activity x is a bridge too far").

So I guess I see jealousy as a warning system rather than something to be overcome or excised.

Yes, and I've definitely been able to build my trust bridge as I show myself to be able to handle treacherous environments without ill effect, and I know he can as well. I'm pretty solid in the "team" sense.

One of my favorite examples is when I decided to come to Lit, I wanted to publish my stories and get back online, and I talked to my husband and said "I just don't want you to worry that anybody can take me away from you."

He looked at me funny, kissed the top of my head and said something to the effect of: "Do you actually think someone could take you away from me? That's adorable. Have fun."

And that's a level of confidence and possessiveness I'm fine with. He's sure he's good enough for me, he's sure I know that, and he's sure he'd fight like hell to keep me if necessary. But the real fact is, he loves me so much, if I found someone better for me...he'd really want me to be happy. He just is pretty sure that's not likely and so am I.

 

[CathyDomme]

Strengths can be weaknesses and weaknesses can be strengths through choice.

"Oh that was easy," says man, and goes on to prove that black is white and gets killed on the next zebra crossing - Douglas Adams

Strengths can definitely be weaknesses, but weaknesses are rarely ever strengths.

A fold, a joint or an articulation in armor is the point at which to drive your sword home if you intend to survive. Exploiting the weak spots in someones personal armor will lead you, perhaps not to victory, but at least to glorious survival.

Exploiting weakness in someone psyche, such as jealousy, is a good way to disarm your foe long enough to make a retreat, to plan the next attack or simply to stand up and say, "nya-nya-nya-nah-nah" whilst waggling your hands around your head with your thumbs stuck in your ears....

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but it has very little to do with my experience of jealousy.

Rosco stated that he thought it might be a weakness. I agreed. Not a great deal of mystery in what I was trying to say, I don't believe anyway. What your "experience of jealousy" is, I don't know, but I wasn't relaying your experiences, only my own.

I don't think protectiveness or having that stirred is necessarily a weakness, nor do I believe that acting on it is acting out, nor do I believe that it's always essentially selfish.

Being protective is not jealousy in exactly the same way jealousy isn't about being protective. The way Homburg described his gorilla was, "the nasty, aggressive reaction." Jealousy is ALWAYS selfish, where protectiveness is _mostly_ selfless.

Homburg is making positive steps to overcome 'his gorilla,' no doubt a commendable action. Rosco has recognised the inherent weakness that is 'his gorilla.' ....and just the other day I was lamenting that men will never grow up, yet here are two fine examples that prove me wrong.

 

[Recidiva]

"Oh that was easy," says man, and goes on to prove that black is white and gets killed on the next zebra crossing - Douglas Adams

Strengths can definitely be weaknesses, but weaknesses are rarely ever strengths.

A fold, a joint or an articulation in armor is the point at which to drive your sword home if you intend to survive. Exploiting the weak spots in someones personal armor will lead you, perhaps not to victory, but at least to glorious survival.

Exploiting weakness in someone psyche, such as jealousy, is a good way to disarm your foe long enough to make a retreat, to plan the next attack or simply to stand up and say, "nya-nya-nya-nah-nah" whilst waggling your hands around your head with your thumbs stuck in your ears....

Rosco stated that he thought it might be a weakness. I agreed. Not a great deal of mystery in what I was trying to say, I don't believe anyway. What your "experience of jealousy" is, I don't know, but I wasn't relaying your experiences, only my own.

Being protective is not jealousy in exactly the same way jealousy isn't about being protective. The way Homburg described his gorilla was, "the nasty, aggressive reaction." Jealousy is ALWAYS selfish, where protectiveness is _mostly_ selfless.

Homburg is making positive steps to overcome 'his gorilla,' no doubt a commendable action. Rosco has recognised the inherent weakness that is 'his gorilla.' ....and just the other day I was lamenting that men will never grow up, yet here are two fine examples that prove me wrong.

Okay. And...ew.

 

[rosco rathbone]

And that's a level of confidence and possessiveness I'm fine with. He's sure he's good enough for me, he's sure I know that, and he's sure he'd fight like hell to keep me if necessary. But the real fact is, he loves me so much, if I found someone better for me...he'd really want me to be happy. He just is pretty sure that's not likely and so am I.

That might be possessiveness, but it's not jealousy.

 

[Recidiva]

That might be possessiveness, but it's not jealousy.

I guess for me they're so close as to be the difference between whether you call it F sharp or G flat.

Not much. I think it's the same thing, only different in scale.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I guess for me they're so close as to be the difference between whether you call it F sharp or G flat.

Not much. I think it's the same thing, only different in scale.

To me, jealousy involves a lot of insecurity.

 

[Recidiva]

To me, jealousy involves a lot of insecurity.

Then raise your security level to support it. Then the jealousy is still there. But if you can't raise your sense of security or confidence, you're screwed. And security and confidence take practice and time. But jealousy or possessiveness I think are measures of how much we focus on an individual. Negative or positive, a lot of focus is fine if it's supported by security and confidence and trust.

It's like saying jalapenos are not food because they burn the mouth. So...add some damned tomatoes and cilantro and it's delicious.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Then raise your security level to support it. Then the jealousy is still there. But if you can't raise your sense of security or confidence, you're screwed. And security and confidence take practice and time. But jealousy or possessiveness I think are measures of how much we focus on an individual. Negative or positive, a lot of focus is fine if it's supported by security and confidence and trust.

It's like saying jalapenos are not food because they burn the mouth. So...add some damned tomatoes and cilantro and it's delicious.

You lost me here.

 

[Recidiva]

You lost me here.

Okay. I consider jealousy/possessiveness to be that fun little tingle in the back of my head that says "MINE!"

Just like the fun little tingle of spice in addictive foods.

I wouldn't want to go without that bit of brain chemistry. Although people consider it to be caustic or destructive, I have a good recipe where I wouldn't want to take it out of my life.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Okay. I consider jealousy/possessiveness to be that fun little tingle in the back of my head that says "MINE!"

Just like the fun little tingle of spice in addictive foods.

I wouldn't want to go without that bit of brain chemistry. Although people consider it to be caustic or destructive, I have a good recipe where I wouldn't want to take it out of my life.

I agree with that. Jealousy adds spice. Sometimes pain is pleasure. I drink Tabasco sauce right out of the bottle, which gives me hiccups, but I keep doing it.

 

[Recidiva]

I agree with that. Jealousy adds spice. Sometimes pain is pleasure. I drink Tabasco sauce right out of the bottle, which gives me hiccups, but I keep doing it.

There you go! Much better example than mine. Yeah, sometimes pain is pain and equals thumbs down. I just don't always interpret it that way and I'm trying to articulate why...badly.

 

[JMohegan]

Okay. I consider jealousy/possessiveness to be that fun little tingle in the back of my head that says "MINE!"

Insecurity or fear of being replaced by a rival is one issue.

Personal possessiveness (I don't share my toothbrush, my boxer briefs, or my partner) is another.

The "MINE!" response is a third. I don't see it as a matter of worrying about the female's choice, so much as a competitive issue between guys. The urge behind the type of primal competition in which the winner gets the female, regardless of what she desires.

It is entirely possible to have complete trust and faith in a partner's devotion, her lack of interest in other guys regardless of private contact, etc. - and still feel a strong personal possessiveness and sense of "MINE."

2 +3 describes me in a strong relationship.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Insecurity or fear of being replaced by a rival is one issue.

Personal possessiveness (I don't share my toothbrush, my boxer briefs, or my partner) is another.

The "MINE!" response is a third. I don't see it as a matter of worrying about the female's choice, so much as a competitive issue between guys. The urge behind the type of primal competition in which the winner gets the female, regardless of what she desires.

It is entirely possible to have complete trust and faith in a partner's devotion, her lack of interest in other guys regardless of private contact, etc. - and still feel a strong personal possessiveness and sense of "MINE."

2 +3 describes me in a strong relationship.

Yeah, and guys know that guys are always trying to fuck each other's women.

 

[Recidiva]

Insecurity or fear of being replaced by a rival is one issue.

Personal possessiveness (I don't share my toothbrush, my boxer briefs, or my partner) is another.

The "MINE!" response is a third. I don't see it as a matter of worrying about the female's choice, so much as a competitive issue between guys. The urge behind the type of primal competition in which the winner gets the female, regardless of what she desires.

It is entirely possible to have complete trust and faith in a partner's devotion, her lack of interest in other guys regardless of private contact, etc. - and still feel a strong personal possessiveness and sense of "MINE."

2 +3 describes me in a strong relationship.

It's funny how that might work differently. If I had the slightest idea that it had to do with force and not my choice I'd probably make a point of killing him in his sleep. Whether or not he's just smart enough to know that's what I need and give it to me whether or not he feels that way is just...well, I just love him either way.

I can't honor anything that has to do with a male's natural right through competition to get anything from me other than a golf clap. I guess that's partly why I'm attracted to my husband also. He doesn't notice the men. Neither of us are the least bit concerned about anyone else in the room if we're in the room together, usually. He'd flat out kill anyone, man or woman, that's a threat. He has no protective impulses toward women more than men on the whole, and has no reservations regarding hitting a girl if she were to attack him or me. But he also knows I can defend myself and probably feels sorry for anybody who tries, though he'd like to watch.

He's either so good at projecting that persona or he's that guy. So alpha he doesn't care what the pack thinks. And I'm antisocial enough to be perfect for that personality. I would think less of him if he paid more attention to another male in the room than to me.

Works for me. Because I'm not a pack animal, really. I don't care what the group thinks. I care what my mate thinks and that's what works for us.

I've noticed this, and I think differently. It's interesting how men will go after other men that go after their mate, and women will go after the other women. I go after the mate if they stray. But they have to stray first. If they don't, I don't care.

 

[Recidiva]

Yeah, and guys know that guys are always trying to fuck each other's women.

And women are always trying to fuck another woman's guy.

 

[JMohegan]

It's funny how that might work differently. If I had the slightest idea that it had to do with force and not my choice I'd probably make a point of killing him in his sleep.

It doesn't have anything to do with force. And anyway, even if it did you'd be mistaking the roles here. You're already fucking your husband, so he wouldn't be the one doing the challenging.

I don't understand why so many have trouble with the notion of primal urges that sort of linger and manifest themselves in modern ways.

 

[rosco rathbone]

And women are always trying to fuck another woman's guy.

Takes 2 to tango, of course.

 

[Recidiva]

It doesn't have anything to do with force. And anyway, even if it did you'd be mistaking the roles here. You're already fucking your husband, so he wouldn't be the one doing the challenging.

I don't understand why so many have trouble with the notion of primal urges that sort of linger and manifest themselves in modern ways.

I'm not having problems with yours, I'm explaining mine as manifesting themselves differently.

I am describing two distinct ways of doing something and interpreting the same impulse and why I do one and not the other.

I'm firmly in the minority, I get this. I'm not trying to "not get" you, I'm trying to express me.

 

[JMohegan]

Takes 2 to tango, of course.

Which is one reason why, in the absence of insecurity issues, "MINE!" isn't entirely rational. (Rape possibilities aside.)

 

[CathyDomme]

Okay. And...ew.

?? ??

 

[rosco rathbone]

Which is one reason why, in the absence of insecurity issues, "MINE!" isn't entirely rational. (Rape possibilities aside.)

Definitely not rational. I understand the urge to go all "Hey Joe" should the occasion present itself.

 

[Recidiva]

Which is one reason why, in the absence of insecurity issues, "MINE!" isn't entirely rational. (Rape possibilities aside.)

I never claimed to be rational. Just predictable.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm not having problems with yours, I'm explaining mine as manifesting themselves differently.

I am describing two distinct ways of doing something and interpreting the same impulse and why I do one and not the other.

I'm firmly in the minority, I get this. I'm not trying to "not get" you, I'm trying to express me.

Oh, okay. My apologies! I misunderstood your post.